HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

MLD 2011 Assassination Thread

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-10-2011, 11:37 AM
  #176
BillyShoe1721
Terriers
 
BillyShoe1721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,709
vCash: 0
Send a message via AIM to BillyShoe1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Don't forget that I have Crossman who can feed these guys as well.
Your 1st pairing isn't always going to be out with your 1st line. Personally, I'd prefer my 1st pairing not be out with my 1st line in order to spread out the effectiveness across my lineup.

Quote:
No, it's really not. He's one of the best if not the best skaters in the draft.
Just because there are quotes that say he skated like the wind doesn't mean those don't exist for others. I'd say Hiller, on your own team, was faster than Barlow. What about guys like Marchant, Walz, Mickoski, Kapanen, Steve Sullivan, or Kallur? They all had blazing speed as well. Okay, Barlow is one of the better skaters in the draft. I see no definitive way to call him the best, or anyone the best for that matter.


Quote:
Elite for this draft..yes it is.
Jim McKenny's 2, 4, 7, 14, 15, 16, 17 are elite. Crossman's are good. Not elite.

Quote:
He was a defensive defenseman..why would he get all star voting records? All they looked at was offense.
Was it? What about the guys with the recently uncovered all star voting records that have underwhelming offensive resumes? Why did they get votes?

Quote:
Weak era? Not for forwards sir..and he had to go up against some of the best.

Even for defensemen..Gadsby, Stewart, Bouchard, Reardon, Seibert, Quackenbush..just to name some.
Post-war is universally regarded as one of the weakest eras in hockey. There is no denying that.
Quote:
Barlow isn't on that line.
That was in reference to your 1st PP unit.

Quote:
Imo..one of the best tandems in the draft.
There isn't a coach in this draft that I see being able to have any significant impact in the outcome of a series.

BillyShoe1721 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 01:37 PM
  #177
BillyShoe1721
Terriers
 
BillyShoe1721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,709
vCash: 0
Send a message via AIM to BillyShoe1721
So.....................who's collecting the votes? I can do the opposite conference if it expedites the process any and if someone tells me how to tally them.

BillyShoe1721 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 01:45 PM
  #178
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Would it shock you if I found a quote referring to Bullard as one of the best two way forwards during a portion of a season??
Kinda, yeah. Depends what else it says, I guess. Reason is, he was a scrappy, gritty player and less-knowledgeable types sometimes just associate that with defense too.

Quote:
Jim McKenny's 2, 4, 7, 14, 15, 16, 17 are elite. Crossman's are good. Not elite.
I thought that 2nd was from a year where he played a lot of forward? didn't we establish that earlier? I forget.

Iain should use the same "key indicators" that he used to demonstrate the seasons in which Dale Tallon was a forward, and we can get an idea of when McKenny played some or all of the season as a forward based on the stats being a bit, or a lot out of whack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Just wanted to say I love that Bill Brydge is finally getting the credit he deserves. Now, here are your Philadelphia Quakers:



Philadelphia Quakers
Coach: Red Berenson

Red Green-Robbie Ftorek(A)-Bob McDougall
Alexander Bodunov-Nicklas Backstrom-Charlie Sands
Mike Krushelnyski-Michal Pivonka-Anders Kallur
Rick Dudley-Stephane Yelle-Mark Johnson(A)
Yevgeny Zimin, Alexander Uvarov, Tony Tanti

Phat Wilson(C)-Bill Juzda
Alex Smith-Jim Dorey
Drew Doughty-Kim Johnsson
Hal Laycoe

Daren Puppa
Joe Daley


PP1: Green-Ftorek-McDougall
Wilson-Doughty

PP2: Bodunov-Backstrom-Johnson
Smith-Dorey

PK1: Yelle-Kallur
Wilson-Juzda

PK2: Krushelnyski-Pivonka
Smith-Dorey

PK3: Ftorek-Johnson
Juzda-Johnsson

pre-1916: Bob McDougall, Phat Wilson(technically can't fulfill a requirement because he never played in a professional league)
1917-1942: Alex Smith, Red Green, Charlie Sands, Bill Juzda
1943-1965: Yevgeny Zimin, Alexander Uvarov, Hal Laycoe
1966-1979: Robbie Ftorek, Alexander Bodunov, Anders Kallur, Rick Dudley, Mark Johnson, Jim Dorey, Joe Daley, Red Berenson(coach)
1980-1994: Daren Puppa, Mike Krushelnyski, Michal Pivonka, Kim Johnsson, Tony Tanti
1995-2004: Stephane Yelle
in 2011: Nicklas Backstrom, Drew Doughty
Having been so underwhelmed by Red Green last AAA, I'm surprised to say I'm pretty sold on him as a scoring winger this time around. We never really talked about his senior years then, but we should have. Ftorek is a gritty way to start a first line and McDougall is of course tough to gauge like everyone else, but I have no doubt he's a legit scoring line player here. No complaints here.

I think there needs to be a better sell job done on Bodunov. When you say "offensively he is on the same level as a lot of these guys", you mean "in goalscoring", and there is no mention of GP to help understand whose averages included time as a little-used youngster or declining oldie. Also, some of these players' careers ended before others' began, so the GPG of their leagues could be quite different. A listing of their best 5 goals (or better yet, points) rankings in the soviet league and international tournaments would have done a better job. As it stands, I don't know if you got seduced by numbers out of context or are trying to seduce me! Backstrom is a good 2nd line center (I think it was well-demonstrated that he's not yet at a spezza/allison/gomez level, but there's no question i wanted him over stumpel), and Sands is an OK two-way complement.

Kallur's 7th and 10th in selke voting puts him in a higher tier as far as defensive MLD wingers go. Contributing to so much team success doesn't hurt, either. I had no idea he was so offensively inclined in Sweden, either. In the NHL, though, weak offense. Krushelnyski and Pivonka both fall into that "modern offensive players who were good two-way guys but never really close to selke-caliber" category. Overall this won't have the pure shutdown ability of some lines, but it might score more than most.

4th seems a bit mish-mash, but it can work. Dudley is an energy forward, Yelle kept an NHL job for so long pretty much for penalty killing, and I don't buy Johnson as much more than a mediocre offensive 80s player with average defense and little intangibles. Seeing as you are having two of these three guys specialize on a special teams unit, and they have to play somewhere at ES, this makes as much sense as anything else.

Not a Zimin fan, the competition was so poor. Wish someone would take the time to make some points of comparison for him. Tanti is an elite ringer with the ability to play either side.

Wilson is tough to judge. Can see him as a captain, but he's a question mark as a first-pairing guy. Good, bad? who knows. A question mark. Juzda, I also don't personally buy as a 1st pairing guy. he should be a physical support player.

I am sold on Alex Smith. Dorey I'd prefer on a 3rd pairing. Poor man's Juzda with some offense.

Johnsson is a big time minute muncher, and has been proven to be able to handle more responsibility. I would seriously consider exchanging him with Dorey. Or even 1st pairing, especially since you aren't using him on special teams (aside from 3rd PK) Doughty could be a 2nd-pairing defenseman here too.

I never saw Laycoe as anything special. He was on my list, but really low for AA consideration. Even now, there are guys out there with some all-star consideration, or were #1 on their team a lot, or were at least big point producers or excellent defensively. he just seems so run-of-the-mill.

With forwards and defensemen both looking pretty good, I'd have to say goal is your weak spot. I like a lot of teams' backups better than Puppa - including maybe your own!

Red Berenson is going to be a wildcard of a coach. Some will love him for the Adams, some will hate him for basically being a career college coach.

Your forwards and defensemen should keep this team in the hunt.


Last edited by seventieslord: 08-10-2011 at 01:54 PM.
seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 01:51 PM
  #179
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
So.....................who's collecting the votes? I can do the opposite conference if it expedites the process any and if someone tells me how to tally them.
Thanks for offering. Let's do that.

There will be extensive all-star voting too, so I will need to write something up. With 16 teams and a lot of new info on players a lot of guys deserve recognition. I'll be sending this out today, but I don't think before I do one more assassination.

can I have an updated list of assassinations given/received?

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 02:15 PM
  #180
BillyShoe1721
Terriers
 
BillyShoe1721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,709
vCash: 0
Send a message via AIM to BillyShoe1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I think there needs to be a better sell job done on Bodunov. When you say "offensively he is on the same level as a lot of these guys", you mean "in goalscoring", and there is no mention of GP to help understand whose averages included time as a little-used youngster or declining oldie. Also, some of these players' careers ended before others' began, so the GPG of their leagues could be quite different. A listing of their best 5 goals (or better yet, points) rankings in the soviet league and international tournaments would have done a better job. As it stands, I don't know if you got seduced by numbers out of context or are trying to seduce me!.
If I had that information, I'd use it. But I don't, and I don't know where to get it. If this helps, here is how many games each of the guys in that table played in the Soviet league, and over how many years. I think it's pretty cut and dry, they were all contemporaries in the Soviet league, and Bodunov scored at a higher clip than all of them except Yakushev.

Bodunov: 378 games, 68-82
Yakushev: 568 games, 63-80
Vikulov: 520 games, 64-79
Shadrin: 445 games, 65-79
Lebedev: 473 games, 69-85
Anisin: 509 games, 69-85
Zhluktov: 456 games, 72-85
Kapustin: 517 games, 71-86

So, despite playing around the same number of years domestically(give or take a few), Bodunov played fewer games. The only explanation I could offer to make sense of this was that he had trouble with injuries. While it isn't documented anywhere, it's the only real explanation as to why he played fewer games.
Quote:
Not a Zimin fan, the competition was so poor. Wish someone would take the time to make some points of comparison for him. Tanti is an elite ringer with the ability to play either side.
I think you mean Uvarov.

Quote:
Wilson is tough to judge. Can see him as a captain, but he's a question mark as a first-pairing guy. Good, bad? who knows. A question mark. Juzda, I also don't personally buy as a 1st pairing guy. he should be a physical support player.
Juzda is the physical support player of the line. I guess people aren't as sold on Wilson as I am.

Quote:
Johnsson is a big time minute muncher, and has been proven to be able to handle more responsibility. I would seriously consider exchanging him with Dorey. Or even 1st pairing, especially since you aren't using him on special teams (aside from 3rd PK) Doughty could be a 2nd-pairing defenseman here too.
How would you structure the pairings?

Quote:
With forwards and defensemen both looking pretty good, I'd have to say goal is your weak spot. I like a lot of teams' backups better than Puppa - including maybe your own!
Really? 2nd and 3rd in Vezina, 4 top 9s in GAA and 3 top 6s in SV% as a modern goalie on a crappy team?

BillyShoe1721 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 02:43 PM
  #181
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,005
vCash: 500
interesting 4th line stuff

the line "Won't provide that much offense though" in regards to my own 4th line caught me off guard. I wasn't sure if it was meant relatively, or just stating the obvious, that no 4th line really provides much offense. But it really got me thinking and I ended up doing some basic research for fun.

Out of the 14 teams, no fewer than ten have a 4th line made up entirely of NHL post-expansion players. Which means that their statistical careers have been well-chronicled and adjusted by overpass, and that their offensive numbers can be adjusted to a playing field almost universally accepted as fair. (there are 7 pre-expansion or non-NHLers on 4th lines here, with dreakmur having three of them himself)

Naturally our 4th lines are playing at ES. Sure, there might be a guy here and there who is getting onto a PP unit, but the 4th line is solely for ES. So we need to look at their ES production specifically to determine who is best equipped to produce.

What I did was very simple and has plenty of potential for improvement, but for the amount of work it took, did a good job and gets the point across. I added up the career adjESP/80GP average for all three fourth liners on each team. Here is what I got:

tony d: 131
thejudge: 113
mark/stone 110
reen: 109
daveG: 104
chaos: 98
selfish man: 98
seventies: 97
billy: 96
tdmm/vecens: 93

now, before the guys with 109+ start hooting and hollering it should be mentioned:

- tony's high figure is skewed by a player who benefited from Jagr a lot, and from a guy whose career average is based solely on prime right now.
- thejudge's includes Morrison, beneficiary of Naslund/Bertuzzi in their heyday
- mark/stone have Rucchin, beneficiary of Kariya/Selanne
- reen has langkow, partial Iginla beneficiary, and Jonathan, who has the fewest GP on this list and declined so incredibly fast that he never had the slowing down period that others did

accouting for the four points above is impossible to do with numbers, but it's safe to say, the factors described pushed those numbers ahead somewhat. From what I can see, the careers of the other players were fairly similar in terms of ES usage.

Further to that, (and why I say there is room for improvement) is that there are some 1000-game players here, whose career averages got dragged down more than others. best thing would be to look at best six seasons or something, but that is too much work, for now this will have to do.

In terms of the true ES offensive potential of these 4th lines, I would go as far as saying that, from top to bottom, there is a 15-20% difference in potential. If you think a good 4th line should generate 30 goals in a year (I think that's good, having three 4th liners with 10 goals each, right?), then a weaker one has the potential for 25-26. This is basically due to the relative equal offensive ES values of everyone that got drafted.

With that said, there is more to seeing how much they will score than just this. Do they work together well? is there a good scoring/playmaking mix? is there a puck carrier? what's the line's style? etc. But offensively I don't think there should be much quibbling over who will score more.

In judging the 4th lines of this MLD, I am going to be much more concerned with the following: how are they defensively? is there some size/physicality/toughness/agitation there? will they be anet positive or negative in terms of power play opportunities generated? how will they forecheck? will they physically wear down the opposition over the game? even if they don't score, can they cycle and pin down the other team so that the 1st line can come on for an offensive zone faceoff? can they intimidate and crash the net and build energy and all that jazz?

That's what's going to make the difference from one 4th line to the next. Not offense.

just some thoughts for you.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 02:51 PM
  #182
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
If I had that information, I'd use it. But I don't, and I don't know where to get it. If this helps, here is how many games each of the guys in that table played in the Soviet league, and over how many years. I think it's pretty cut and dry, they were all contemporaries in the Soviet league, and Bodunov scored at a higher clip than all of them except Yakushev.

Bodunov: 378 games, 68-82
Yakushev: 568 games, 63-80
Vikulov: 520 games, 64-79
Shadrin: 445 games, 65-79
Lebedev: 473 games, 69-85
Anisin: 509 games, 69-85
Zhluktov: 456 games, 72-85
Kapustin: 517 games, 71-86

So, despite playing around the same number of years domestically(give or take a few), Bodunov played fewer games. The only explanation I could offer to make sense of this was that he had trouble with injuries. While it isn't documented anywhere, it's the only real explanation as to why he played fewer games.
I suspected as much. Fewer games means there's more white noise in his numbers than others. also, the sheer number of international games played is big. Just being on the national team is an important thing, as it demonstrates being one of Russia's best/most valuable players.

Quote:
I think you mean Uvarov.
nope, meant Zimin. Wasn't Zimin a 50s player?

Quote:
How would you structure the pairings?
I'm thinking this:

smith-wilson
juzda-johnsson
dorey-doughty

I especially like the 2nd pairing, it brings one guy up to get more responsibility that he deserves IMO, and brings a guy down into a role better for him, without making any pairing a poor mix of skillsets.

Quote:
Really? 2nd and 3rd in Vezina, 4 top 9s in GAA and 3 top 6s in SV% as a modern goalie on a crappy team?
he did average 6 points above the average in sv% over his career, which isn't bad. There are just better guys out there. The 2nd is good, the 3rd was in the most awful year for goalies in the past 20. Terrible playoff record. As far as starters go, I'd consider him over Johnston, Roloson, Irbe, Lindbergh, and that's it ("consider", not necessarily "select"). What about you?

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 05:01 PM
  #183
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,906
vCash: 500
FYI - unless you wait for Thursday night, I won't be voting.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 05:44 PM
  #184
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
FYI - unless you wait for Thursday night, I won't be voting.
yep, at this rate we will still be accepting votes at that time.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 06:06 PM
  #185
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,005
vCash: 500
Received:

Billy-3
Selfish Man-2
Velo-2
Dreak-2
DaveG-2
TDMM-2
tony-1.5
Reen-1
chaos-1
Iain-1
thejudge-1
mark/stone-.5
jkrx/reds-.5
seventies-.5

Given:

Billy-7.5
tony-3
TDMM-2
Velo-2
DaveG-1.5
Dreak-1
thejudge-1
Iain-1
seventies-1

- 9 of 14 judges giving at least one assassination... nice!
- Billy deserves another one more than anyone else, but it would be best if someone focused on the teams with the fewest received right now.
- I might still squeeze in one for a little-reviewed team.

Expect voting PMs to be sent soon too.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 11:41 PM
  #186
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
A very good two-way player and excellent digger sounds a bit like an exaggeration to me. I view him more as a guy that's a definite positive in his own zone, but not a very good two-way player. I admit I probably underestimated his ability as a corner guy, he should more than suffice there.
Mickowski was a "fine two-way worker" according to LOH and spent most of his career on checking lines of Original 6 teams. He's definitely one of the stronger defensive consciences on a scoring line in this MLD. Agree that he wouldn't be an elite checker, so don't think I'd call him that.

Quote:
I'm sticking to that the line could use more of a pure shooter than Stastny with Dahlen still crashing the net. Stastny's numbers could also be inflated by playing with his brothers.
Marian Stastny regularly outscored (a young) Peter when they played together in the CSSR league. Anton was a 19 year old rookie when Marian led the CSSR league in goal scoring. Marian was pretty clearly a better player than Anton for the majority of time they played together. And yes, Peter was better than Marian. Didn't most players at the MLD spend most of their careers with better players?

Would you like the line better if Marian's playmaking was worse? He'd be more of a "pure shooter" then. I consider his playmaking ability a bonus, though it will be somewhat limited by Mike Ribeiro's reluctance to shoot. It certainly won't make the line worse.

Quote:
Carter would definitely add size and scoring ability to your bottom 6, but I don't know where he exactly fits. I can't think of a real good spot to maximize his talents given the other players in your bottom 6. What center and RW in your bottom 6 are you most willing to bench? If I know that, maybe I could think of something.
It would be Sullivan - Carter - Pettersson or Sullivan - Carter - Kapanen

Quote:
It might be just because I hate Matt Cooke and the Penguins, but I really just don't buy him in the MLD for whatever reason. He never stood out on the PK whenever he played against the Flyers for me personally. I posted his PK TOI finishes on his team when he was first picked and they aren't that impressive. Okay he can agitate, but I think McKay can start stuff and finish it well enough to carry a line in that department. Tippett's elite PK ability seems like a more useful thing to have in your starting lineup. Again, it might be because I hate Matt Cooke, but I just don't see it.
Okay.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-10-2011, 11:51 PM
  #187
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post


Disagree with the lack of offense and defense. They aren't great offensively, Chaberlain and Green can both put up points. Chamberlain, based on percentages, is as good as a guy like Gracie, who is a 1st liner. He also produced very well in the play-offs.
Yes, well, Gracie is arguably the worst first liner in the MLD, at least from an offensive standpoint, so...

Quote:
I like Chamberlain enough that I would consider him as a 4th liner next ATD.
He would definitely be a passable 4th liner in the ATD, and a pretty decent one if the draft stays at 40 teams (which I doubt it will).


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 08-11-2011 at 01:28 AM.
TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 12:10 AM
  #188
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,141
vCash: 500
Thanks for the review, tony.

By the way, I just got back from a week in the mountains with no internet, so I'm catching up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Let me say a few words on this team:

Line 1: Mickoski seems like a really good all-around player, he can score you goals, he can set up goals and he can play gritty if you want him to, solid player. Mcgimsie does appear to be the top offensive guy on your team, solid all-around player. Drozdetsky is another good scoring player. This line could be one of the best offensive 1st lines in the draft
.

Thanks.

Quote:
Line 2: Always liked Ulf Dahlen, he'll score you a lot of goals but also he'll play a good 2 way game as well, solid pick. Mike Ribiero is one of the more under-rated playmakers in the NHL today, playing on a line with a goal scorer like Dahlen could really be something nice to watch. I said last year that Marian was the worst production-wise of the 3 Stastny brothers which is not a bad thing. Marian will fit in well on this line.
Marian was the least productive Stastny in the NHL, but he was 28 years old when he came over! He was actually the 2nd most productive player in his age group after Marcel Dionne in his first 2 seasons in the league. Once you take into account his international career, I can't see how Marian isn't more productive than Anton.

Quote:
Line 3: Sami Kapanen is a player that I think can play anywhere on the ice, his versatility adds a lot to this line and the team. Injuries have hurt Steve Sullivan's career but if he doesn't get hurt he's going to do a lot of good for your team. Petterson was a guy I scouted last year for the AAA draft so a solid pick there as well.
Thanks. The versatility of Kapanen (and Sullivan) is a big reason we picked them.
Quote:
Line 4: not sure if Matt Cooke belongs here, the guy is good at what he does but don't think he belongs in the MLD yet. Larry Patey belongs here though, Patey was probably one of the best checking line centres in the whole draft. Mckay was gold for those Devils teams back when they where winning the Cups, solid pick there.

Extra Forwards:

I'd almost put Tippett on the 4th line ahead of Cooke but that's up to you. Carter gives you another goal scoring centre off the bench, 2 solid choices.
I'm still behind and looking forward to vecens posts defending the Cooke pick. Seriously though, I think the guy is getting underrated here. The guy was the top agitator on a Cup winner and has a top 10 Selke finish to his credit (before coming to Pittsburgh). If he retired 10 years ago, nobody would bat an eye at the pick. That said, I do understand the reasoning for dressing Tippett over Cooke - Tippett is an elite (for this level) penalty killer, while Cooke is "merely good" at it.
Quote:
Overall thoughts on the forward group: A tremendous group, other than Matt Cooke starting, I have no qualms about this group at all.
Thanks.
Quote:
Defense Pairing 1: Evans was one of the better defensive defenseman available, solid choice. Me and Arcand had O'connell last year in the MLD, thought he was more of a defensive guy until we drafted him and saw he was more offensive.

Defense Pairing 2: Buswell was rightly praised by you throughout the draft, a good 2 way choice, he'll serve your defense well. Brian Campbell is a good pick. He gets panned because of his salary but right now IMO he's one of the top active defenseman in the world of ATD/MLD/AAA drafts.
Thanks. I agree. I strongly considered Brian Campbell as my #7 in the ATD, but passed because I wanted my #7 to be able to play both special teams. But I think Campbell is a better overall player than most spare defensemen from the ATD (just not useful as a spare penalty killer).

Quote:
Defense Pairing 3: Ehroff's another good defenseman from the modern era, good to have offensive production from that pairing. Not sure Butcher belongs here, he's purely defensive but I think I'd draft someone else at that spot instead.
Butcher's our #6 and his leadership will be vital IMO. Most teams select their #6 as a guy who fills a certain role, and Butcher will do that for us. He did get selected to play in the All Star Game once, so he was highly regarded.

Quote:
Extra Defenseman: Martin's another good modern guy, I'd almost suggest Martin ahead of Butcher in your starting lineup.

Thoughts on the defense group: Like me you went with an offensive and defensive guy on each pairing, aside from Butcher all those guys belong.
Butcher definitely belongs, I think. Many ATD teams draft a thug defenseman for their bottom pair. Butcher is the MLD equivalent of a thug who was highly praised by his peers and who brings a lot of leadership.
Quote:
Goalies: Mowers, IMO, is a middle of the road #1 goalie in this while Bert Lindsay is one of the best backups, together this corps will make it work.
I think Mowers is a middle of the road #1 in the regular season but possibly the best playoff goalie in this. 3 straight trips to the finals + 1 Cup is outstanding at this level (and newspaper articles from the time praise Mowers as being a big part of those teams).

Quote:
Coaching: Never been a fan of 2-coach teams in this but I think Julien and Muckler will make a good combo.
I see Muckler as a guy who will remind Julien when need be that teams still need to score to win. His championship resume as an assistant certainly doesn't hurt.

Quote:
Special Teams: Like all your special teams units, solid choices all around.

Overall Thoughts On your team: As always with TDMM and vecens the team was well-drafted, I expect this team to go far in this. Good Luck to the both of you.
Thanks.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 12:22 AM
  #189
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
His 10th and 16th are both pretty good. He had 53 when the pack started at 75, and 50 when the pack started at 84. From an MLD standpoint, pretty decent.

I'd actually like to see which defensemen have the best points percentage seasons in this MLD. percentages for defensemen are not something I have readily available. I only have eight 50%s on my team (Roberts 2, Gibbs 2, Kampman 1, Sargent 3) but I doubt that is the most. just on this page I see chaos has 4 (Eddolls 1, Crossman 3), and TDMM has 6 (O'Connell 3, Ehrhoff 2, Buswell 1). Berard has five alone.

two caveats:
- it should be mentioned again, that in addition to the defenseman's own skill level, the amount of time they spend on the PP has a great impact on their production within a season.
- Orr and Coffey would definitely need to be removed as outliers.
Brian Campbell has several, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Gotcha. Nevertheless..if he can frustrate the hell out of Maurice Richard..and got voting for all-star teams in a good era with not a great offense..I think that speaks volume about everything else.
It's a nice quote, but Jagr did say that Chris Therrien gave him more trouble than any other defenseman. Sometimes a defensive defenseman just has the number of a particular superstar. That said, the Richard quote is more than a lot of defensive defensemen have at this level and his All-Star voting is a plus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
FYI - unless you wait for Thursday night, I won't be voting.
I will also not vote until tomorrow.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 08-11-2011 at 01:38 AM.
TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 12:35 AM
  #190
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,141
vCash: 500
Since voting is starting, I'll just ask for some feedback on Eden Hall's bottom 6.

#1 is what we have now (still undecided between Tippett and Cooke, any more feedback there?)

2 and 3 are possibilities with Jeff Carter centering the third line.

1.

Sami Kapanen - Steve Sullivan - Roland Pettersson
Matt Cooke/Dave Tippett - Larry Patey - Randy McKay (A)

2.

Steve Sullivan - Jeff Carter - Roland Pettersson
Sami Kapanen - Larry Patey - Randy McKay (A)

3.

Steve Sullivan - Jeff Carter - Sami Kapanen
Matt Cooke/Dave Tippett - Larry Patey - Randy McKay (A)


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 08-11-2011 at 01:55 AM.
TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 01:38 AM
  #191
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Yes, well, Gracie is arguably the worst first liner in the MLD, at least from an offensive standpoint, so...
I realize he's not great, but that is absurd. Red green, buzz boll, ted hampson, andrew brunette, jim riley, tom hooper, joe power, eric vail, mud bruneteau, wayne babych, hib milks, herb carnegie, mikael renberg, jimmy gardner, skene ronan, and bud poile all beg to differ.

Most of Gracie's best seasons came when he was carrying the mail for his line, too. That's important, and not many mld players can say that.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 01:44 AM
  #192
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I realize he's not great, but that is absurd. Red green, buzz boll, ted hampson, andrew brunette, jim riley, tom hooper, joe power, eric vail, mud bruneteau, wayne babych, hib milks, herb carnegie, mikael renberg, jimmy gardner, skene ronan, and bud poile all beg to differ.

Most of Gracie's best seasons came when he was carrying the mail for his line, too. That's important, and not many mld players can say that.
From my quick read on Gracie, he really only had 2 significant offensive seasons surrounded by lots of meh.

But more importantly, I just trolled you into listing guys you think are worse than Gracie offensively so I didn't have to figure out who they were. (Still don't like Gracie on a first line, but no, he's not the worst).

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 02:20 AM
  #193
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,141
vCash: 500
Montreal Bad Habits Review

Coaching

-I think Emile Francis is one of the top coaches at this level. He never won a Cup, but he seems to have gotten the most out of a Rangers team with very little depth that had to compete against the 1970s Bruins, Flyers, and Canadiens. Hartley is an okay coach; not sure what he brings as an assistant though.

Forwards

Very well balanced first line. Spezza is one of the best offensive players in the draft. Mud brings a good hard-working two-way game and Vail brings size. Neither is particularly special offensively, however. If special can handle being the offensive focus of his line (how often has he had to do that in real life?), then this line will be successful.

Second line brings a lot of skill but seems pretty soft. All three players are solid second liners here on their own (we wanted Zhamnov as our second line center), but together might be lacking in grit. Sykora, in particular, was a very soft player, and I'd prefer someone whose physical game is better substantiated than Liscombe to play with him.

Interesting mix on the third line. Gee is one of the best offensive third liners here and was average or better defensively. Gionta is a little sparkplug, and Kelly a goon. Was Kelly talented enough to play on a third line at this level?

Jonathan seems very similar to Kelly; was he actually a better player? Plek is a good two-way guy, but good enough for this level? Maybe. Knuble seems like he has the skillset to play on a fourth line here, though I'm not sure what his chemistry with Plek would be like.

Langhow is a pretty good two-way spare. I'm going to use a VI phrase to disparage a VI favorite player: History will forget Ian Laperriere. I wouldn't draft him here.

Defense:

Maloney is a solid, but unspectacular #1. Jason Smith is one of the best captains at the MLD level, but is he talented enough for top pairing duties? I'd rather see him on a second pairing, personally.

Tallon is a pretty good offensively inclined defenseman. Rouse is an excellent crease clearer, but I always got the impression that he was a guy who excelled as a bottom pairing guy for great teams; probably shouldn't be more than that. I'd like him better as a bottom pairing guy in this. Great PKer, though.

I've begrudgingly come to admit that Malakhov is a good pick, very good bottom pairing guy and PP guy. Brad Stuart was never anything special IMO; I'd dress Baldy Spittal instead, even if he played more games at forward than D.

Goaltending:

Definitely a team strength. Sean Burke is my second favorite post-expansion goalie in this draft and Hec Fowler is a more than capable backup.

Special Teams:

Good PP. With the number of offensively inclined forwards you have, you might want to try Petr Sykora on the point.

Smith, Maloney, and Rouse are an excellent trio for the PK. Stuart is okay, I guess. Your penalty killing forwards are quite weak, however. I really don't buy Plekanec-Gionta as an all-time first PK duo.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
MONTREAL BAD HABITS




GM: ReenMachine
Coach: Emile Francis & Bob Hartley
Captain: Jason Smith
Assistant: Dave Maloney
Assistant: Brian Gionta


Eric Vail - Jason Spezza - Mud Bruneteau
Carl Liscombe - Alex Zhamnov - Petr Sykora
Bob Kelly - George Gee - Brian Gionta(A)
Stan Jonathan - Tomas Plekanec - Mike Knuble
Spare: Daymond Langkow , Ian Laperriere

Dave Maloney(A)
- Jason Smith(C)
Dale Tallon - Bob Rouse
Brad Stuart - Vladimir Malakhov
Spare:Baldy Spittal

Sean Burke
Hec Fowler

PP1: Spezza-Sykora-Vail-Malakhov-Tallon
PP2: Zhamnov-Bruneteau-Liscombe-Maloney-Stuart
PK1: Plekanec-Gionta-Maloney-Smith
PK2: Zhamnov-Gee-Rouse-Stuart

1916 or earlier:Spittal
1917-1942:Bruneteau
1943-1965:Gee
1966-1979:Maloney
1980-1994:Burke
1995-2004:Spezza
in 2011: Plekanec

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 02:21 AM
  #194
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
From my quick read on Gracie, he really only had 2 significant offensive seasons surrounded by lots of meh.

But more importantly, I just trolled you into listing guys you think are worse than Gracie offensively so I didn't have to figure out who they were. (Still don't like Gracie on a first line, but no, he's not the worst).
I knew you were trolling me...

It's three seasons, actually (80, 63, 62), but yeah, you're pretty much right. But the standards for the pre-expansion era are much different for this caliber of players that we're at; otherwise, we'd literally be drafting 95% post-expansion.

This became a lot clearer to me when i was looking at 2nd line centers, and if I was to take percentages at face values there were a dozen modern centers at the top of the list before guys like Gracie and Gee showed up.

now that I'm home and not just rattling off names on the phone, the 16 guys I named fall into a few categories:

Pre-expansion NHLers with worse percentages (apples to apples): Boll, Green (senior helps but doesn't quite do it), Bruneteau, Milks, Poile

Post-expansion NHLers with worse percentages (apples to privileged apples): Hampson, Vail, Babych,

Post-expansion NHLers with very slightly better percentages that don't transcend era : Brunette, Renberg

glue guy HHOFers inducted along with linemates who did little to nothing offensively: Gardner, Hooper

early non/pre-nhlers with percentages that don't compare: Riley, Power, Ronan

didn't prove himself in the NHL: Carnegie (yes I'm cruel)

now that I've had the chance to look at it some more, throw on the following:

Dutch Reibel (best 5 percentages add up to 305, mostly with Howe, Gracie's best add up to 300),

likely Don Smith (sihr is down right now, can't verify),

maybe jack mcdonald (same as smith, but slightly less likely, he has two more good seasons)

wally hergesheimer (4 best seasons are equal in terms of percentage point production, and 4 seasons are all Hergy has),

Nick Mickoski (close but not quite, Gracie had three better seasons than he ever did)

Robbie Ftorek (his 4 WHA seasons if converted over at the rough 0.65 are worth 55-65% apiece, that's not that special and he topped out at 55% in the NHL),

and, depending on preference, Olli Jokinen the winger.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 03:08 AM
  #195
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,141
vCash: 500
Warroad Lakers Review

Coaching

Bill Dineen's resume would have him as a solid, but unspectacular coach at this level, I think. I don't know anything about his strengths or weaknesses, so it's hard to assess fit.

Forwards

I really like the Carson Cooper pick - IMO, he's the only guy in the draft who can challenge Drozdetsky as the best offensive winger. Cooper's lacking playoff resume is why we chose Droz over Cooper. You did a good job to show that Cooper wasn't nearly as bad in the playoffs as a lazy look at hockey reference's NHL-only stats would indicate. I'm not as big a fan of your other top liners. Hib Milks is okay, though I think some other GMs give him too much credit for leading his godawful team in scoring when he wasn't among the NHL leaders. Herb Carnegie is a mystery, and I must say I'm less of a fan of the pick now that I've seen some of his stats. I read that NHL scouts thought his regular linemates weren't NHL-calibre, so it's possible that lesser linemates that might explain why he scored less in his league than his reputation would have him. I think you can get away with a mysterious player in perhaps a second line role, but it's dangerous to do when he's your first line center (as I found out last year with Zabrodsky).

Also, who is the grit on your first line?

Second line doesn't really have an offensive "wow" factor, but should function well. Mellanby is a wrecking ball who can chip in points. Cassels a functional playmaker and Skvortsov a functional scorer.

I like your bottom 6. All 6 men are solid defensively and most of them can chip in the occasional point at this level.

Defense

Joe Cooper and Dave Lewis are both physical beasts who will make life hell for softer forwards. I can buy either of them as a #2 (especially Cooper), but don't necessarily like either of them as a #1. I just checked the newly uncovered All-Star results and Cooper received 1 point one season and 2 points in another, which is pretty good but not great.

I like your second pairing. The 3rd pairing of the great Soviet teams of the 80s has to be good enough to play together in the MLD. I'm not entirely sure how good they are, but my guess is that they are just as good as your top pair, less intimidating, but better balanced.

Solid but unspectacular well-balanced bottom pair.

Goaltending

Irbe isn't a bad starter, but I can't help but think he's below average. His Vezina record and goalie stats are okay, but definitely below average for starters in this. His playoff run in 2002 was spectacular, but I think it might lead us to overrate him a little bit because it's one of our last memories of him. If it happened in the middle of his career, would it be considered as memorable? I don't know. I do know that Irbe could steal games when on, so that's a good thing for you. Meloche was a good regular season goalie who might see more action than most backups.

Special teams

Who is the net presence on the first PP unit? I'd seriously consider moving Mellanby there - when we were looking for net guys for our first PP unit, I was shocked at how many PP goals Mellanby scored (and what percentage of his goals were actually on the PP!).

Your emphasis on stay at home defensemen does limit the potential of your powerplay.

On the other hand, you have a fantastic group of defensemen for the PK - possibly the best in the draft.

If your first PK unit isn't the best in the draft, it's close. Your second PK forwards aren't that spectacular though; I honestly think Arvedson-Bergeron are better there than Konowalchuk-Cassels.

Overall

Carson Cooper is a great offensive weapon, but I'm not sure about how you complimented him.

Other than your first line, your forwards should be effective at their roles, particularly on the defensive side of things.

Intimidating group of defensemen are very good in their own end, but lack offensive upside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Warroad Lakers


GM: DaveG
Coach: Bill Dineen
Captain: Scott Mellanby
Alternate: Patrice Bergeron
Alternate: Steve Konowalchuk
Alternate: Wes Walz

Hibbert "Hib" Milks - Herb Carnegie - Carson Cooper
Alexander Skvortsov - Andrew Cassels - Scott Mellanby
Magnus Arvedson - Patrice Bergeron - Paul Holmgren
Steve Konowalchuk - Wes Walz - Wayne Presley

Joe Cooper - Dave Lewis
Sergei Starikov - Igor Stelnov
Janne Niinimaa - Alex Levinsky

Arturs Irbe
Giles Meloche

Extras:
D/F Frank "Coddy" Winters
C Carl Kendall
D Sean Hill
RW Justin Williams


PP 1:
Hib Milks - Herb Carnegie - Carson Cooper
Patrice Bergeron - Janne Niinimaa

PP 2:
Alexander Skvortsov - Andrew Cassels - Scott Mellanby
Joe Cooper - Sergei Starikov

PK 1:
Wes Walz - Wayne Presley
Joe Cooper - Dave Lewis

PK 2:
Steve Konowalchuk - Andrew Cassels
Sergei Starikov - Igor Stelnov

PK 3:
Magnus Arvedson - Patrice Bergeron
*rotation* - Alex Levisnsky

1916 or earlier - Coddy Winters, Carl Kendall
1917-1942 - Carson Cooper, Alex Levisnky, Hib Milks
1943-1965 - Herb Carnegie
1966-1979 - Dave Lewis, Gilles Meloche, Sergei Starikov, Paul Holmgren, Alexander Skvortsov, Bill Dineen
1980-1994 - Scott Mellanby, Arturs Irbe, Igor Stelnov, Sean Hill, Wayne Presley, Wes Walz, Steve Konowalchuk, Magnus Arvedson, Janne Niinimaa, Andrew Cassels
1995-2004 - Justin Williams, Patrice Bergeron
in 2011 - Patrice Bergeron, Justin Williams, Janne Niinimaa

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 03:19 AM
  #196
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,141
vCash: 500
I'm not going to go through every one you mentioned

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Dutch Reibel (best 5 percentages add up to 305, mostly with Howe, Gracie's best add up to 300),

Nick Mickoski (close but not quite, Gracie had three better seasons than he ever did)
Dutch Reibel's best 3 seasons absolutely blow Gracie away, however. Why are you using 5 seasons as the benchmark for Reibel when we all know that he had 3 great seasons and nothing else?

Speaking of 3 seasons, I assume Mickowski starts to get closer to Gracie the farther you get past 3 seasons. You, as much as anyone, appreciate a guy like Mickowski who was good, not great, for a long time. Anyway, Gracie definitely has the better short peak than Mick. We all know by now that literally every forward who could hope to deliver a physical presence at this level was taken in the ATD if he had any strong peak offense whatsoever. Mickowski is a physical presence; Gracie is not. So it's not really comparing the same thing. But then, I guess I'm the one who specified "offense only," so technically you're probably right.

Quote:
wally hergesheimer (4 best seasons are equal in terms of percentage point production, and 4 seasons are all Hergy has),
Hergy was a very biased goal scorer and Gracie a very biased playmaker, so you can't just use strict points when comparing them. At some point, goals become more valuable than assists, at least when we are talking about guys this extreme. I don't care enough to do a more nuanced comparison.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 03:37 AM
  #197
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,141
vCash: 500
Garnish Dragons Mini-Review

You're not in my division, but I'll throw you a quick review since you reviewed my team. If I have time tomorrow afternoon, I'll review the last 2 teams in my division.

- Murray is a worthy coach here, above average I'd guess.

- I'll say it again: Now that I see his full Vezina/All-Star record, Dan Bouchard is the best regular season goalie in this thing. Better than Tom Paton, in all likelihood. His playoff resume is a bit scary, but GMs vary in terms of what that means to them. Not sure why he needs 2 backups, but I guess it can't hurt.

- First line seems to be all about "get the puck to Larouche." Boll is a good two-way guy and Hampson is a really hard worker, but neither one has all that much offensive upside. They cover for Larouche's weaknesses well, however. Was Larouche really a one-man show type of player? I honestly don't know.

- Good all-round wingers on the second line. I have no idea what I think of Khlystov.

- Big fan of your third line, very good defensively.

- Galley is a good offensive defenseman who is pretty good in his own zone; not great. Scott Hannan probably deserves more than bottom pairing minutes.

- I can definitely buy McKegney in front of the net on the first PP, but I would prefer a better playmaker down low than Hampson. Larouche and Galley are good to have out there, though.

- Zalapski can't play the PP if he is benched! I literally know nothing about Sidorenkov. Maybe dress Zalapski instead? Definitely give the error-prone Zalapski a good stay at home partner though.

- Why isn't Shawn Burr on your PK? He has to be better there than Pominville, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Garnish Dragons



Buzz Boll-Ted Hampson (A)-Pierre Larouche
Tony Mckegney (A)-Nikolai Khlystov -Bill Flett
Shawn Burr-Terry Crisp -Wildor Larochelle
John Marks-Michael Nylander -Jason Pominville
Greg Gus Adams-Veli Pekka Ketola

Garry Galley- Brad Marsh (C)
Leo Reise Sr.-Arnie Brown
Scott Hannan-Genrikh Sidorenkov
Zarley Zalapski

Dan Bouchard
Nikolay Puchov
Martin Biron

Coach: Bryan Murray

Special Teams Units

PP 1: Tony Mckegney-Ted Hampson-Pierre Larouche-Garry Galley-Nikolai Klyskov
PP 2: Buzz Boll-Michael Nylander-Wildor Larochelle-Leo Reise Sr.-Zarley Zalapski

PK 1: John Marks-Jason Pominville-Brad Marsh-Arnie Brown
PK 2: Bill Flett-Terry Crisp-Leo Reise Sr.-Scott Hannan

Era Requirments:

1916 or earlier: Leo Reise
1917-1942: Buzz Boll, Wildor Larochelle
1943-1965: Ted Hampson, Nikolai Klyskov, Arnie Brown, Nikolay Puchov, Genrikh Sidorenkov
1966-1979: Pierre Larouche, Dan Bouchard, Brad Marsh, Tony Mckegney, Bill Flett, Terry Crisp, Veli Pekka Ketola, Bryan Murray (Coach)
1980-1994: Garry Galley, Shawn Burr, Michael Nylander, Greg Gus Adams, Zarley Zalapski
1995-2004: Scott Hannan
in 2011 (ANY active/nonretired pro player with 300-plus games pro experience regardless of when he began his career): Jason Pominville
__________________

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 03:44 AM
  #198
tony d
The franchise
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,214
vCash: 500
Thanks TDMM for your review. Glad to have gotten 1 from you. Forgot to move Zalapski when I benched him, I'll make the change. I'm going to keep Pominville on the penalty kill instead of Burr though. And yes I'll put Khylskov ahead of Hampson on the 1st power play.

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 05:40 AM
  #199
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Scott Hannan probably deserves more than bottom pairing minutes.
Not only did he lead his team in even strength ice time like 8 years in a row, he led the entire league a few times over that stretch.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-11-2011, 10:34 AM
  #200
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,005
vCash: 500
I didn't realize Hannan had been moved to the starting lineup, I was going by the roster thread. I gave him a vote as a top spare.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.