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Are the owners working together?

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08-06-2004, 02:54 PM
  #1
tinyzombies
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Are the owners working together?

Seems from the drop in salaries that the owners have talked amongst themselves and created some guidelines to control the market and for signing players.

In other words, collusion.

Sounds good to me, something has to be done, but there's no other explanation for some of the FA's out there to still be out there. I don't buy the argument that the owners are losing money - the megarich teams don't care about money even if they were somehow losing it.

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08-06-2004, 03:34 PM
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BLONG7
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Not collusion... but sanity! These guys(owners,GM's) are their own worst enemies, they just need to use some common sense when it comes to salaries. But of course there will always be GM's like JF Jr. who says he has the revenue, so he can spend whatever he wants...

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08-06-2004, 03:44 PM
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Interesting point. Personally I think that most of the owners are fiscally responsible and only a few are just crazy with their money. The Rangers are the worst, The Wings are just as bad, The Leafs seem to be getting into that category as well.

I think that most GM's are forced to do something because their opponents do it. Now all of a sudden you don't see the Rangers going out and buying everybody. You don't see Detroit doing it either. The owners seem to have put on a united front and the big name players are all still out there.

Essentially it's a standoff. The players like Kovalev, Palffy, Kariya, Demitra are waiting for that first guy to sign. You can bet that all of them will get signed right away once the first guy decides to sign. The owners are in the same situation...once one of the guys opens their wallet, the others will be sure to follow, but at least it's not crazy money.

Collusion is hard to prove...but I guess a case could be made for that. I'm not really sure how that all works though.

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08-06-2004, 04:05 PM
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tinyzombies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano
Collusion is hard to prove...but I guess a case could be made for that. I'm not really sure how that all works though.

Cap
I don't think it's hard to figure out how it works. They had a meeting and set some groundrules. If it could ever be proven, they'd have their pants sued off, naturally. I'm glad they're doing something about it, personally.

Also, Shanahan signed a cut-rate contract and Hejduk only accepted $5.7 million. That right there has already set the market.

A guy like Allison or Murray don't have a prayer of getting $8 mil.

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08-06-2004, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Seems from the drop in salaries that the owners have talked amongst themselves and created some guidelines to control the market and for signing players.

In other words, collusion.

Sounds good to me, something has to be done, but there's no other explanation for some of the FA's out there to still be out there. I don't buy the argument that the owners are losing money - the megarich teams don't care about money even if they were somehow losing it.
Meanwhile, the Leafs' payroll is around 60 mill.

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08-06-2004, 04:17 PM
  #6
tinyzombies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy
Meanwhile, the Leafs' payroll is around 60 mill.
Yeah, but they had no choice with Belfour, unless they want to sink to the bottom of the standings. It's just a carryover from the previous salary structure.

They probably should have signed Weekes though.

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08-06-2004, 04:23 PM
  #7
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Yes, but the Leafs are pretty much either 1) not participating in collusion with the other owners or 2) if they are colluding, doing a horrible job of it; or 3) intentionally being different in order to avoid the accusation that the other owners are colluding.

Paying Belfour, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, and McCabe pretty huge salaries goes against any kind of fiscal responsibility collusion theory if you ask me. We should be glad that Gainey has kept salaries relatively low so far, but I don't think there's any collusion. If the owners wanted to collude, they could have not bothered to sign as many players as they have been. With the CBA about to expire, they would never be caught if they all collectively decided to not sign anybody.

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08-06-2004, 04:25 PM
  #8
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It depens on what you are checking, if you look at the toronto maple leaf payroll and what their GM's been saying... we have ehough income to have a team worth 60 millions and if you look at Pronger's contratc (10 millions for one year)

I'm still wondering if they agreed on the salary cap at 31 millions (which I found a bit low since the habs can't sign Kovalev of anybody for next season)

They seems to be more carefull with their money and some player's agent seems to cooperate in that maner (like Zednik's agent for example) I remember a guy name Brian Savage who asked 4 millions for his services, I really prefer Zednik at 2.3 millions

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08-06-2004, 04:35 PM
  #9
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Ya, that Chris Pronger deal makes no sense if all the owners are in cahoots with each other.

Judging by some of the signings, I don't think the player's union is as strong as they make it sound. When players take pay cuts the Players union can't like that. Also when Kariya and Selanne did their little magic trick last year to both play for Colorado, the NHLPA must've frowned again.

In the end it's simple numbers...there are 30 teams, and 30 (or so) owners. There are over 500-600 players. It's easier to stand together as 30 than 600. I think the players will eventually cave in...they have to...what else can they do besides play hockey? I don't think painting a house pays as much.

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08-06-2004, 05:42 PM
  #10
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pronger signed because if not they will have lost him for nothing .. they will probably trade him next year or let him go via free agency and get compensation for him ...

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08-06-2004, 05:42 PM
  #11
Des Louise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano
Interesting point. Personally I think that most of the owners are fiscally responsible and only a few are just crazy with their money. The Rangers are the worst, The Wings are just as bad, The Leafs seem to be getting into that category as well.
The wings aren't that bad IMO. When you have a cup winning team you've got no choice but to spend to keep your players. Guys like Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom have earned their massive paycheck. Same deal with Colorado, guys like Sakic, Forsberg, Blake and co have earned big money deals as well.

I agree on the rangers, leafs and blues. As long as your players haven't won anything they shouldn't be paid as if they were proven playoffs performers.

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08-06-2004, 05:44 PM
  #12
Jeffrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
The wings aren't that bad IMO. When you have a cup winning team you've got no choice but to spend to keep your players. Guys like Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom have earned their massive paycheck. Same deal with Colorado, guys like Sakic, Forsberg, Blake and co have earned big money deals as well.

I agree on the rangers, leafs and blues. As long as your players haven't won anything they shouldn't be paid as if they were proven playoffs performers.
true but IMO
no player in the NHL right now deserve to get 10m$ or more .. :mad:

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08-06-2004, 05:58 PM
  #13
Des Louise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryoptix
true but IMO
no player in the NHL right now deserve to get 10m$ or more .. :mad:
They don't even deserve 5M either...

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08-06-2004, 06:09 PM
  #14
EaGLE1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
They don't even deserve 5M either...
Time to tell my point of view:

Salaries in NHL, IMO, should look like...

8M ----A Lemieux or Gretzky kind of player
6M ----Naslund, Sakic, Forsberg
4M ----Very good players like Kovalev, Mogilny, Koivu
2M ----Solid players such as Zednik, Parrish, Afinogenov
1.5M---Bulis, Marchant
1M---Sundstrom, Green
.5M---Worst players, goons.
.8M---1st rounders, 1st year in NHL.

To be viable, NHL needs salaries to look like that. Otherwise, they are killing hockey.
I think the NHLPA proposed to drop all salaries by 5%. It's not enough...20% is the right number.

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08-06-2004, 06:59 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryoptix
true but IMO
no player in the NHL right now deserve to get 10m$ or more .. :mad:
This is the result of the owners and GMs wrong doing...

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Old
08-06-2004, 07:04 PM
  #16
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One thing I never understood.

Players sit out for the sake of others (per the NHLPA instructions) and that's not collusion.

Owners agree to some kind of discipline amongst each other and that's collusion.

Someone mind explaining this to me.

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Old
08-06-2004, 08:22 PM
  #17
tinyzombies
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COLLUSION - An agreement between two or more persons, to defraud a person of his rights by the forms of law, or to obtain an object forbidden by law; as, for example, where the husband and wife collude to obtain a divorce for a cause not authorized by law. It is nearly synonymous with covin.

Collusion and fraud of every kind vitiate all acts which are infected with them, and render them void.

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08-06-2004, 09:33 PM
  #18
Capitano
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy
This is the result of the owners and GMs wrong doing...
Is it though? Can it not be looked at as a greedy hockey player?

There is more to life than money and these hockey players don't obviously realize that. If they play a sport for a living and are revered in the city they play in, they why would they threaten a holdout of any kind? Or why would they demand a salary so astronomical that it would be impossible to play for? Like Brisebois...sure he signed a great contract but he's in the spotlight all the time. And the difference between being in the spotlight and not being there is about 1.5 million bucks.

I think the owners end up having to shell out the money because the fans don't want to see a specific player go. Personally I would have let Breezer sit at home but our GM wanted to sign him so our owner eats the loss.

In the end the fans are just as much to blame for a player's salary increasing. The owner has to maintain a winning team, to do that he has to either keep his players or trade his players for a more successful one. You won't see too many trades that don't involve money anymore because EVERY team has overpaid players.

So my final point is this...if the players actually took a step back and said "Geez...I know my hockey life span is about 8-10 years...but during those years I'll be making 2-3 million on average per year...that equates to between 20-30 million dollars...that's a lot of money...maybe I should be a little appreciative of the team and the city that I play for rather than demanding a ridiculous raise." Of course you won't see this because I think the players are greedy. Not all of them...guys like Begin bring a tear to my eye because he gives so much for relatively nothing in terms of NHL money. My only beef is with the multi-millionaires.

It's a bad cycle because there are bad owners, bad fans, and bad players. But I think that the players tend to be greedier than most.

Just my two cents.

Cap

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Old
08-06-2004, 10:33 PM
  #19
Nyclaus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legolas
Paying Belfour, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, and McCabe pretty huge salaries goes against any kind of fiscal responsibility collusion theory if you ask me.
I hate the laffs as much as anyone but, Gary Roberts is the heart and soul of this team... I'd take him, at his salary in a heartbeat(sp?)!!!!

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Old
08-07-2004, 01:20 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyclaus
I hate the laffs as much as anyone but, Gary Roberts is the heart and soul of this team... I'd take him, at his salary in a heartbeat(sp?)!!!!
If I could pickup anyone from toronto, I'd take Nieuwendyk. The guy is such a glutch player, and has so much cup experience, it's sickening. He's not the greatest goal scorer, but he's a possible 55 pts in reg season and one of the best players to have in the playoffs. Robert's shoulders have been a huge problem since the 2001 season, he hasn't been playing nearly as consistently, but he's a monster. And becoming much more physical and aggressif, which is something we lack...

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