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The "Captain Caveman" Edition: Nashville Predators vs. Shea Weber 8/2/2011

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Old
08-03-2011, 04:24 PM
  #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
http://twitter.com/#!/Forechecker/st...62759428624384

Hoag's latest tweet made me throw up
To me, the key word to that statement is "structure"

Quote:
Poile says length & structure of deal were factors in not getting long-term contract done.
I think Weber wants a heavily front loaded, retirement contract like some of these other richer teams are able to afford. Can we really afford to pay Weber $10-$12M in the first few years of one of these types of contracts?

If this is the case, then I don't blame Poile for being reluctant. Especially since the new CBA might have an effect on these types of deals.

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08-03-2011, 04:26 PM
  #402
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Since Shea likely wants out and wants to play for a winner I'm sure this will soon be painted as a money thing despite all reports from Poile and the ownership group saying the money is there for him. Trotz "We will match any offersheet for him". Poile will just point at ownership and cite budget concerns.

By the sounds of the quotes, this is already happening.

Quote:
Poile: Believe me, I've talked to Shea about this. Hockey-wise, we're right there. Business-wise, we're not quite there.
http://twitter.com/#!/Cellblock303

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08-03-2011, 04:27 PM
  #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
http://twitter.com/#!/Forechecker/st...62759428624384

Hoag's latest tweet made me throw up
I don't see it quite that way... besides how do you know that he wants to be a UFA so bad, anyway?

I see it as he does not want to be a guy like Rob Blake that waits to leave his team and 'GO FOR IT' until late in his career and wants to make sure that management is pressed to improve the on-ice talent to make it happen here. In my OPINION (which all of this is anyway, people's 'opinions'), there was consternation about the next CBA and getting enough talent to win a Cup in Nashville. I just see this as kicking the can down the road and they can tie up all three together next season (Weber, Suter, Rinne) with the next CBA in better focus and let some of the farm guys develop and add a piece like they did w/ Fish. I think this helps the fans and the organization in the long-run if this is handled correctly.

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08-03-2011, 04:34 PM
  #404
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Here's a recap:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=214

Details from conference call, Weber and Poile both present:

DAVID Poile: Just spoke with Shea to offer congratulations. Definitely worthy. Goes on to list all of Shea's accolades.

-Knew late monday that they likely weren't going to find a common ground to get a deal done before arbitration on a long term deal.

"Weber's goal, as is ours, is to win the Stanley Cup"

"Weber loves Nashville and the players here. Weber is regretful that a longer term deal wasn't reached. Still remains the ultimate goal for both team and player"

"Negotiated long and hard during many, many meetings...couldn't come to an agreement encompassing length, structure, or amount."

-Feels that arbitrated amount is "fair"

"Every year we have Shea, our chance is greater to win the Cup. But we still have lots of work to do."

-Plans to begin working on extending Suter and Rinne as soon as they're back in town. Working almost immediately on a new deal for Weber as well...long term contract still goal for team and Weber.

SHEA WEBER-

-Glad arbitration process is over. Hopes that they can start negotiating on a longer deal soon.

"I'm very happy to remain a Nashville Predator. Thanks to all the fans for hanging in through all of this"

"We have a great young team that's only going to get better"

-Says relationship between himself and team still "solid," despite arbitration process. Characterized it as "not that bad" (the process) No damage done to overall relationship, did call it "stressful"

"We were close against Vancouver. Poile and ownership assures me we are committed to winning, and I believe them"

DAVID POILE-

-still looking at opportunities to improve team (Free agency\trade market). Ownership has greenlighted more money than ever, still looking for top six forward

-Contract negotiations included discussion of not only term and salary, but direction of team (BTN'S note: DING DING DING, WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG!!!! WEBER WILLING TO STAY, BUT HAS TO BE ASSURED THAT NASHVILLE WILL CONTINUE TO INCREASE PAYROLL AND BETTER THE TEAM)

-Arbitration "not a perfect scenario," but not end of the world. Means to an end.

"We're a couple of forwards away from being a legitimate Stanley Cup threat. Not talking out of both sides of my mouth, i like our group, but we see opportunity to improve and will be looking to fill the need"

-Team can't elect arbitration again next season, but Weber can. Aim to have contract done long before that point.

"I'm not pessimistic about getting a longer term deal done." -- Weber agrees. Both sides want the same thing, just have to find where to meet.

Weber: "I love nashville--fans, teammates, org's future"

Weber: "This is a temporary solution. "

Weber: "i hope to talk to Suter and Rinne and see where their heads at. that's what makes this one year deal interesting. hopefully we're all on the same page, i'd like to be able to play with those guys for a long time"

Weber: "Glad the process is over, looking forward to season"

Weber, on whether or not he was "offended" by Nashville's offers, including in arb: "Not at all, it's a business. They're trying to get the best deal they can, and so am I. Both sides present their case, it's nothing personal" (reporter was clearly trying to bait Weber into saying that he was offended)

Poile: "Both sides wanted to avoid arbitration, but ultimately we both know that it's a business thing, nothing personal"

Poile: Franson trade was part biz (freeing money to re-sign players as well as augment roster), but part hockey as well. Feel they have better players ready to step in that needed an opportunity.

Poile: Change in agents had no effect on negotiations



That's it...I'm sure that this won't change anyone's opinions...but the overall tone of the call was very positive, and as a Preds fan, I feel considerably better after hearing it. But...I know that certain posters will still go on with, "that's just what they have to say"

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Old
08-03-2011, 04:35 PM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
These tweets are hilarious. If the two sides love each other that much a deal would have been done.

Smoke being blown here.
Smoke? We need a backhoe for all the **** being spewed right now!

Nice recap, don't believe a word they said.

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08-03-2011, 04:40 PM
  #406
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I remember one time one of my teams in another sport got in a big pissing match with the captain and it ended up with a good compromise and a done deal. I hope this ends up the same

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08-03-2011, 04:40 PM
  #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Here's a recap:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=214

Details from conference call, Weber and Poile both present:

DAVID Poile: Just spoke with Shea to offer congratulations. Definitely worthy. Goes on to list all of Shea's accolades.

-Knew late monday that they likely weren't going to find a common ground to get a deal done before arbitration on a long term deal.

"Weber's goal, as is ours, is to win the Stanley Cup"

"Weber loves Nashville and the players here. Weber is regretful that a longer term deal wasn't reached. Still remains the ultimate goal for both team and player"

"Negotiated long and hard during many, many meetings...couldn't come to an agreement encompassing length, structure, or amount."

-Feels that arbitrated amount is "fair"

"Every year we have Shea, our chance is greater to win the Cup. But we still have lots of work to do."

-Plans to begin working on extending Suter and Rinne as soon as they're back in town. Working almost immediately on a new deal for Weber as well...long term contract still goal for team and Weber.

SHEA WEBER-

-Glad arbitration process is over. Hopes that they can start negotiating on a longer deal soon.

"I'm very happy to remain a Nashville Predator. Thanks to all the fans for hanging in through all of this"

"We have a great young team that's only going to get better"

-Says relationship between himself and team still "solid," despite arbitration process. Characterized it as "not that bad" (the process) No damage done to overall relationship, did call it "stressful"

"We were close against Vancouver. Poile and ownership assures me we are committed to winning, and I believe them"

DAVID POILE-

-still looking at opportunities to improve team (Free agency\trade market). Ownership has greenlighted more money than ever, still looking for top six forward

-Contract negotiations included discussion of not only term and salary, but direction of team (BTN'S note: DING DING DING, WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG!!!! WEBER WILLING TO STAY, BUT HAS TO BE ASSURED THAT NASHVILLE WILL CONTINUE TO INCREASE PAYROLL AND BETTER THE TEAM)

-Arbitration "not a perfect scenario," but not end of the world. Means to an end.

"We're a couple of forwards away from being a legitimate Stanley Cup threat. Not talking out of both sides of my mouth, i like our group, but we see opportunity to improve and will be looking to fill the need"

-Team can't elect arbitration again next season, but Weber can. Aim to have contract done long before that point.

"I'm not pessimistic about getting a longer term deal done." -- Weber agrees. Both sides want the same thing, just have to find where to meet.

Weber: "I love nashville--fans, teammates, org's future"

Weber: "This is a temporary solution. "

Weber: "i hope to talk to Suter and Rinne and see where their heads at. that's what makes this one year deal interesting. hopefully we're all on the same page, i'd like to be able to play with those guys for a long time"

Weber: "Glad the process is over, looking forward to season"

Weber, on whether or not he was "offended" by Nashville's offers, including in arb: "Not at all, it's a business. They're trying to get the best deal they can, and so am I. Both sides present their case, it's nothing personal" (reporter was clearly trying to bait Weber into saying that he was offended)

Poile: "Both sides wanted to avoid arbitration, but ultimately we both know that it's a business thing, nothing personal"

Poile: Franson trade was part biz (freeing money to re-sign players as well as augment roster), but part hockey as well. Feel they have better players ready to step in that needed an opportunity.

Poile: Change in agents had no effect on negotiations



That's it...I'm sure that this won't change anyone's opinions...but the overall tone of the call was very positive, and as a Preds fan, I feel considerably better after hearing it. But...I know that certain posters will still go on with, "that's just what they have to say"
After this I agree, a lot better then any of us thought. Especially me, I was bashing Poile a lot last couple of days. But if he gets another forward that cant get passed 50 pts I will question his game plan. We need a consistent scorer, and if Poile does that and locks up big 3 he would of made me and others look extremely dumb.

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08-03-2011, 04:40 PM
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
Smoke? We need a backhoe for all the **** being spewed right now!

Nice recap, don't believe a word they said.


I don't know what or who to believe anymore. The proof is in the contract. This will be a very nerve racking year.

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08-03-2011, 04:41 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Tootoo Train View Post


I don't know what or who to believe anymore. The proof is in the contract. This will be a very nerve racking year.
Well we got him for another year let's just hope he scores 90 goals and we win the Cup

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08-03-2011, 04:48 PM
  #410
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Yeah exactly. Of course, they aren't going to release specifics of the negotiation, especially considering they are likely to be heading right back into them.
Unless Weber says, now that this is behind us, I'm focusing on next season. I don't want this to be a distraction to the team, so we'll pick this back up in June.

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08-03-2011, 04:53 PM
  #411
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Why do so many people here seem to jump to the conclusion that either Poile didn't want to pay Weber enough, or that Weber doesn't want to play here anymore?

Must it always be that "someone is lying"? When I see that the "length and structure" were not factors in the equation, it makes me think back to Weber's earlier statement of wanting more offensive firepower. Basically, it could mean that he didn't want ANY long term deal UNTIL he is satisfied with the offensive side of things.

Of course, this brings up the point where Poile and Weber probably differ in what they think is acceptable for the moves made for the offense. Poile seems to think that the young talent will do just fine (and they might...but I doubt it will all come together in one season...), whereas I think Weber would be looking more for someone with some name recognition -- a proven scorer. That all might have been too much to work out in one offseason.

No, I don't think arbitration is a good thing, per se. It can damage relationships, it can be the sign of a player simply not wanting to be here...but it's not a guarantee of that. I think the way this season pans out will tell us a lot about our franchise, and just who we will keep (of the big 3). Personally, I think it's a little premature to hit the panic button and assume that Weber wants out. He may not LIKE how things have gone this offseason, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to be here. Starting all of these trade discussions isn't going to help your opinion of Weber at all. It is just the start of the process of y'all trying to forget him.

The point is, I think it's time that we stop crucifying Weber and Poile for not getting this contract finished before arbitration. Let's take a step back and see what comes out of this. While I don't think it's a good thing that we simply got a one year deal...it's certainly not the worst that could've happened (trading him for less than he's worth, or having to try to match an insanely large offer sheet would be two examples). It may very well come out that Weber wants to be traded (although that would directly contradict his public statements -- it could be true)...and if it comes to that, we'll have to deal with it. Until then, though, I don't really see why we have to abandon all hope of keeping him.




The sign I would look for as for probably gloom and doom would be if they stripped him of his captaincy. That would pretty much signify that he is not on good terms with the organization. Until then, or any public comment that suggests he doesn't want to be here, my full support will be behind Captain Weber.

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08-03-2011, 04:55 PM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Poile: Franson trade was part biz (freeing money to re-sign players as well as augment roster), but part hockey as well. Feel they have better players ready to step in that needed an opportunity.

as a Preds fan, I feel considerably better after hearing it. But...I know that certain posters will still go on with, "that's just what they have to say"
That's garbage. I think Poile meant to say the Franson trade was 100% about freeing money and 0% about augmenting the roster, unless he meant the AHL roster with the garbage in return.


Though I'm glad you feel god after hearing the call. I felt the same way when Weber assured us it would get done back in June.

Thanks for the recap.

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08-03-2011, 04:55 PM
  #413
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Poile says that the reason a deal couldn't get done is "as simple as term, salary, and structure" according to Cooper. Doesn't sound very simple to me.
I actually think "Structure" may be the key.

as others have mentioned, if huge signing bonuses in anticipation of the looming CBA expiration are all the rage, Shea may be wanting more cash up front in a multi year deal than we can pay right now.

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08-03-2011, 04:56 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Unless Weber says, now that this is behind us, I'm focusing on next season. I don't want this to be a distraction to the team, so we'll pick this back up in June.
Poile already said he's going to try to re-open negotiations with Weber as soon as possible, and Weber said he hopes something more will get done. I doubt your scenario happens.

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08-03-2011, 05:06 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
That's garbage. I think Poile meant to say the Franson trade was 100% about freeing money and 0% about augmenting the roster, unless he meant the AHL roster with the garbage in return.


Though I'm glad you feel god after hearing the call. I felt the same way when Weber assured us it would get done back in June.

Thanks for the recap.
I think you're missing the point. He traded Franson because he felt guys like Josi and Ellis are ready to contribute this year. Remember how Blum jumped Franson on the depth chart last year? Well, Franson wasn't moving up as they expected from him and they needed to trade him to give these two and possibly even Ekholm the possibility of being here this year. I would be much happier with Ellis and Josi as our third pairing than SOB and Franson this coming season. That's all he's saying.

You're only looking at what we gave up and got in return without thinking about the holes that are going to be plugged with better players. I remember when we let Houlder go and everyone freaked. How can we let a veteran defenseman go? Well, Hamhuis stepped up and played just fine in his place. I suspect Ellis and Josi will do the same.

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08-03-2011, 05:10 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
That's garbage. I think Poile meant to say the Franson trade was 100% about freeing money and 0% about augmenting the roster, unless he meant the AHL roster with the garbage in return.


Though I'm glad you feel god after hearing the call. I felt the same way when Weber assured us it would get done back in June.

Thanks for the recap.
I think you are misinterpreting that quote. Poile isn't trying to suggest that Lebda or Slaney improves our team. He's saying the silver lining in this salary dump is that it opens up a roster spot for one of our young talents who are going to end up better than Franson.

edit: Glen beat me to it

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08-03-2011, 05:45 PM
  #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
That's garbage. I think Poile meant to say the Franson trade was 100% about freeing money and 0% about augmenting the roster, unless he meant the AHL roster with the garbage in return.


Though I'm glad you feel god after hearing the call. I felt the same way when Weber assured us it would get done back in June.

Thanks for the recap.
"augment the roster" didnt mean lebda he meant freeing up money which will be used to augment the roster by future acquisitions...

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08-03-2011, 05:55 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
"augment the roster" didnt mean lebda he meant freeing up money which will be used to augment the roster...
That or making room for the aforementioned Josi and Ellis.

Again, this Franson talk has been beaten into the ground. Do people honestly still think we'll be depending on Lebda filling in a full-time position?

I would've been more than fine keeping Franson here...but I think from management's point of view that a couple of the younger guys could potentially be better. What Franson brings to the team is somewhat lost in his skating ability and overall defense. I'll go ahead and bet that if Josi and Ellis play 120+ games total (more or less 60 a piece), they will easily meet if not surpass Franson + O'Brien's point totals.

That, to me, is the roster augmentation he is talking about. The money saved by not resigning certain players, shipping Lombardi, and buying out Dumont is simply money in the pocket right now. I don't think it means adding a player right now...but it could make room for a mid-season or deadline trade, or just having money for next year's roster.

I think by January we'll have a good idea about how Poile's plan of just promoting the young talent in the system will work as far as extra offense goes. He seems to think that we have a few potential stars on the roster. We'll have to wait and see if that will be enough, or if we need to add more later. The extra cash gives us a lot more to work with than we had before.


(btw, the response wasn't exactly for your post only...just a point that has been made over, and over again)

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08-03-2011, 05:57 PM
  #419
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For anyone who missed the conference call it is right here


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08-03-2011, 06:17 PM
  #420
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Blah blah. All this is well and good but I still don't understand what the point of going to arbitration was, unless we're really that desperate to save a million dollars. I'm guardedly optimistic about what was said in the conference call, but we've heard things from both sides that haven't panned out before, and it still doesn't make sense why we wouldn't do what NJ did with Parise and just sign him to a one-year deal ahead of the hearing.

Something is still fishy here.

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08-03-2011, 06:22 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
But right now Carle and Hartnell aren't worth half of Weber. At some point this team has to put their foot down and say "ok we're going for it now". You don't win a Cup without taking risks.
Amen, brother!

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08-03-2011, 06:32 PM
  #422
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If everything they said in the conference call is true (doubtful), then I still don't understand why they went to arbitration instead of just signing a one-year deal prior to the hearing.

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08-03-2011, 07:09 PM
  #423
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Blah blah. All this is well and good but I still don't understand what the point of going to arbitration was, unless we're really that desperate to save a million dollars. I'm guardedly optimistic about what was said in the conference call, but we've heard things from both sides that haven't panned out before, and it still doesn't make sense why we wouldn't do what NJ did with Parise and just sign him to a one-year deal ahead of the hearing.

Something is still fishy here.
a million dollars to this team is significant, have no doubt.

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08-03-2011, 07:53 PM
  #424
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The only thing that I can speculate on, if what each side is saying is true, is that Poile offered a long-term deal with the first two years gradually rising (say 5.5, then 6.5) into the UFA years we buy up say 3-4 more years at (7, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5). In that case, I could totally buy the agent and Weber saying, "No, we want to be here long term, but he deserves to be paid now....and we will prove it in arbitration." I think Poile's offer of 4.75 million would indicate this is at least potentially possible. However, I must state that both Poile and Weber's comments, plus the fact that negotiations were ongoing heading into the hearing is at least positive. Maybe it was simply too hard to break entrenched positions at that point. Poile has not had a great negotiation record with past players. He had a pretty nasty contract negotiation with Hamhuis, and we even managed to piss off Steve Sullivan a few years ago as well (he was headed to arbitration too).

Anywho, just a thought.

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08-03-2011, 07:53 PM
  #425
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If everything they said in the conference call is true (doubtful), then I still don't understand why they went to arbitration instead of just signing a one-year deal prior to the hearing.
Poile didn't want a one year deal. It's that simple. If he has to settle for a one year deal he might as well save the money. As I said previously, and you disagreed with, there really isn't a huge difference. Now that it seems like the hearing didn't cause problems between Weber and Poile, the leverage is essentially the same. Weber is still an RFA who cannot be taken to arbitration unless he chooses to go, he can sign offer sheets, or he can sign a one year deal taking him to UFA. Maybe it was a bad risk to take to save a million bucks (more likely we saved less than that since I doubt Weber was actually asking for $8.5m from Poile), but it seems to have worked as best as it can. Both sides are still open to talks. Both sides still claim they want to get something done. Both sides seem upbeat and optimistic going forward. I guarantee everything that was said in the conference call after the award was granted would have been said if Weber only signed a one year deal, but the conversation around here would be negative, implying a one year deal is proof that Weber is gone and we can't keep our talent. Want proof? Go back and read through the thread about Weber wanting a short term deal.

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