HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Playing the easy minutes ...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-06-2004, 03:38 PM
  #1
igor*
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,276
vCash: 500
Playing the easy minutes ...

Because it's a slow time of year, and because I think it's interesting, just thought I'd throw this up here.

Obviously we're all Oiler fans, and few of us should have been surprised at the breakdown of the tough/easy minutes played by Oilers players. But other teams are a different matter, for me at least, I just don't watch enough of their games to see the coaching strategies vs different types of opponents.

Anyhoo, a few surprising guys who played near the easiest minutes on their teams:

DET - Draper. In a complete role reversal this season, played minutes even a shade softer than Hull and Datsyuk. And he wins the Selke :lol Priceless. (That Zetterburg sure has the respect of Lewis BTW). EDIT: And in a complete photo-negative of his Selke nominated year ... Yzerman played some of the tougher minutes (granted, a soft 5on5 sked for the wings this year), irony fans rejoice!

CGY - Iginla. Strange change of tactic by Sutter here this year. Remarkable how much tougher Conroy's icetime was ... I thought they played together more. [Regehr of course played soft minutes, Lydman logged brutal minutes when healthy, yet again ... Ference surprisingly topped the charts for tough minutes though. Go figure.]

VAN - Naslund of course, only Chubarov played softer minutes. Crawford really leaned on his vets to eat the tough minutes. Pretty sensible IMO. [Ohlund, Linden, Keane, May]

ANA - Chistov. This kid got gifted easy minutes with decent linemates and STILL screwed up big-time. Nightmare year for the kid.

PHI - Comrie (short stint, same deal in PHX,too) and Brashear & Fedo{edit}ruk <doh> of course. Surprising thing was that Primeau was right down with these guys. Always interesting to look at a hitchcock team. Interesting guy. By his offseason verbage I thought he was going to turn Primeau into a key checking centre ... what hitch says and does are rarely the same thing though. Historically he's behind only Scott Bowman and Dave King as media BSers IMHO.

MTL - Ribiero/Ryder.

.
.
.

That's it.


Last edited by igor*: 08-06-2004 at 05:17 PM.
igor* is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 03:54 PM
  #2
Bohologo
Registered User
 
Bohologo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Tokyo
Country: Japan
Posts: 1,230
vCash: 500
Igor, I was sleeping in the back of class when Easy Minutes/Hard Minutes was defined. Could you reiterate them?

Bohologo is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 04:00 PM
  #3
Big T
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: LLoydminster, AB
Posts: 338
vCash: 500
Where's the break-down of easy minutes for the Oilers igor??? Tough to comment without them.

I'm really shocked to see Draper on that list. Apparently the voters for NHL hardware either don't have or don't pay attention to stats like this. They should!!!



T

Big T is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 04:11 PM
  #4
igor*
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big T
Where's the break-down of easy minutes for the Oilers igor??? Tough to comment without them.
Here: http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=91331

Quote:
I'm really shocked to see Draper on that list. Apparently the voters for NHL hardware either don't have or don't pay attention to stats like this. They should!!!
Actually I think they should just watch the games. Funny how these guys never learn, guys like Quinn bash the really foolish PC remarks, and quotes scoring chances by game timeframe constantly ... yet NOT ONE of these T.O. guys even listens to him, or understands him, or tries to make themselves better. Just sad.

At least we have hope in this town with Stauffer and a couple others who at least show interest in the game, as opposed to just the soundbite.

igor* is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 04:16 PM
  #5
igor*
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohologo
Igor, I was sleeping in the back of class when Easy Minutes/Hard Minutes was defined. Could you reiterate them?
The link just above should do it. Of course this isn't completely correct, but it is easy to understand and doesn't provoke argument, and works out damn close anyways ... certainly good enough for what we're talking about here ... which is just general discussion about coaching tactics.

igor* is offline  
Old
08-06-2004, 05:23 PM
  #6
looooob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,886
vCash: 500
Conroy and Iginla actually didn't play together as much last year.

Conroy started off the season slumping, then was hurt, then came back and played with Donovan and Gelinas. it was then that both Donovan and Conroy revived their seasons. eventually Conroy and Iginla were paired back together

I'm still trying to get my head around this concept (I think I understand it on a superficial level)because,well....just because

looooob is offline  
Old
08-07-2004, 02:54 AM
  #7
Oi'll say!
Registered User
 
Oi'll say!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oil in 9
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,179
vCash: 500
Is this stat for easy minutes or is it like the last one where only events (GF or GA) are taken into account?

If noone's scoring when Draper is on the ice against top lines then maybe he deserves the Selke??? And/or maybe Det scored a lot of goals when he was on against weaker lines, thus skewing his number...

It's very likely that the stat will reflect the average +/- value of players on the ice against him over the course of the season, I'm just throwing some what ifs in there.

Oi'll say! is offline  
Old
08-07-2004, 04:02 AM
  #8
choppystride
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
Here: http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=91331


Actually I think they should just watch the games. Funny how these guys never learn, guys like Quinn bash the really foolish PC remarks, and quotes scoring chances by game timeframe constantly ... yet NOT ONE of these T.O. guys even listens to him, or understands him, or tries to make themselves better. Just sad.

At least we have hope in this town with Stauffer and a couple others who at least
show interest in the game, as opposed to just the soundbite.
Interesting analysis as always, igor.

However, one aspect puzzles me...

I went back to the thread you mentioned and looked at the definition which states that the statistic is tallied only when a goal is scored. But what about all those minutes when no goals are scored?

For instance, player A plays a scoreless shift against the Av's top unit whereas player B plays a scoreless shift against Minny's 4th line. In this case, I think it's safe to say that player B has played "easier minutes" but this does not seem to have been reflected in you analysis (i.e. both are equally counted as zero).

Perhaps your analysis has somehow accounted for and negated this difference? But I can't figure it out...

EDIT: Ooops, I now see that Oi'll Say has mentioned the same thing...


Last edited by choppystride: 08-07-2004 at 04:22 AM.
choppystride is offline  
Old
08-07-2004, 12:27 PM
  #9
Darryl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2
vCash: 500
Now I know you have it in for Nedved...:)

but hypothetically speaking, if he were to be signed, and a Smyth-York-Pisani line were to garner the majority of the tough minutes, and you left Nedved's line easier minutes [I]plus[plus] more special teams time, would it be a stretch to say that the Oilers would benefit from the addition of Nedved?

Still somewhat of a gamble to sign him though, I suppose. If he can't make the PP go, he doesn't really serve too much purpose.

Darryl is offline  
Old
08-07-2004, 02:56 PM
  #10
igor*
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl
but hypothetically speaking, if he were to be signed, and a Smyth-York-Pisani line were to garner the majority of the tough minutes, and you left Nedved's line easier minutes [I]plus[plus] more special teams time, would it be a stretch to say that the Oilers would benefit from the addition of Nedved?
Of course you're right. If they sign him, then for sure MacTavish will use him in the same way that Bowman used Hull ... if everyone is healthy on the Oilers, not as much talented depth here as DET, so it'd be tougher to shield him.

You're never going to change Hull IMO, and Hitchcock tried like H. So if you sign him, you live with his game. Same goes for Nedved.

Hull never played a shift with Federov when Bowman was behind the bench ... Hull moaned about it a bit ... but I mean it's Scotty *** Bowman! ... Who's really going to listen? :lol And it's not like there aren't a whack of other good players for him to shift with there, Datsyuk is a similar guy ... a good fit.

But if Nedved signs here he's the marquis guy, is he going to want to play with Dvo? Probably. Will he sulk if MacT throws him back with Hemsky and Isbister or some such and bushsits for the other team's weaker players to hit the ice? [like Martin usually did with Spezza and Havlat] ... I dunno.

Maybe just me I guess, I don't like the look of it. I can't imagine that MacTavish does either.

Right now all the Oilers toe the line except Hemsky, they play the game like they care about winning and care about their teammates. And Nedved plays the game like a schoolgirl. When he snows in the corners, when he balks along the halfboards when he hears footsteps, when he coasts back to the bench after being hit, when he tries to pass or cut to the middle when a guy like Ohlund is gifting him the outside, when he lets his winger go off the draw because last time the guy slashed his wrists ...
* We know he will do all these things. Probably each and every one in a single game against a team like CGY. [Nedved is made of Sutter anti-matter ]
* We know how that will affect his results.
* We don't know how it will affect the team in the long run.

We all know that the league has a lot of players like this. Build a team out of them and you'll lose more games than you win. But one or two of them on your team ... used in the right way ... it works.

In short: You're right, it can work. I just don't think it will. And my bias (call me a heathen if you want) is that it burns my arse to see chickenspit guys in copper and blue.

The other side of the coin: Guys like this are fun to watch. A lot happens at both ends of the ice when they are out there.

Quote:
Still somewhat of a gamble to sign him though, I suppose. If he can't make the PP go, he doesn't really serve too much purpose.
Ya, that's it in a nutshell. Or at least it is in my mind.

igor* is offline  
Old
08-07-2004, 04:48 PM
  #11
Meanashell11
Registered User
 
Meanashell11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Greenwich CT
Country: United States
Posts: 2,093
vCash: 500
"And Nedved plays the game like a schoolgirl. When he snows in the corners, when he balks along the halfboards when he hears footsteps, when he coasts back to the bench after being hit, when he tries to pass or cut to the middle when a guy like Ohlund is gifting him the outside, when he lets his winger go off the draw because last time the guy slashed his wrists ... "

If we ever need to go to arbitration for nedved (i know its impossible) or hemsky, I think you should write the Oiler argument!!!

Meanashell11 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.