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Edmonton, City of Champ...er, murders

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Old
08-02-2011, 02:50 PM
  #51
Kayen
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The city being stingy is short staffed on police and it's easy to get away with petty crimes, none the less big crimes.

No money being put up = no progress = no cops = no one alive.

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08-02-2011, 02:51 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Coldhardmitch View Post
Well one could have been unintentional no?
Which would make it manslaughter but still a homicide.

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08-02-2011, 02:54 PM
  #53
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One of those kill someone, then burn the place and then end up killing another person in the process?
If the fire was intentionally set its still a homicide. Only way I can think is if the person who set the fire was one of the people found dead and thus is classified as a suicide.

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Old
08-02-2011, 03:08 PM
  #54
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Edmonton's police force is meager at best and the murder rate reflects that.

Anyway... it's being overblown and people are needlessly panicking. Stay away from street crime/drugs and you'll be fine.

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08-02-2011, 03:18 PM
  #55
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As a person who has always made a living in the oil field: I am partly offended by this post for it's generalizing perspective.

On the other hand, I can't deny there is also some truth to it.
I would never have said it if I hadn't been there myself. And in no way was I trying to paint all oilfield workers in that color. I get too wound up about this stuff.

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08-02-2011, 03:20 PM
  #56
Spiff The Spaceman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Edmonton's police force is meager at best and the murder rate reflects that.

Anyway... it's being overblown and people are needlessly panicking. Stay away from street crime/drugs and you'll be fine.
...and senior centers.... http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...842/story.html

/sarcasm


Last edited by Spiff The Spaceman: 08-02-2011 at 03:27 PM.
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08-02-2011, 03:22 PM
  #57
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Why do you say it's meager?

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Old
08-02-2011, 03:23 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by hockeyguy View Post
...or just domestic disputes. Depends on how you want to look at it.

If you really wanna dig into all the murders this year then its worth mentioning that you should stay out of jail if you want to be safe and also stay away from **** that happened in previous years because you might get sensitized in the media in current years. Then everyone goes whoa this is sooooooo crazy, what a dangerous place.

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Old
08-02-2011, 03:28 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Edmonton's police force is meager at best and the murder rate reflects that.

Anyway... it's being overblown and people are needlessly panicking. Stay away from street crime/drugs and you'll be fine.
Agreed.

Another point is that Edmonton has one of the lowest property tax rates in Canada. If we were all OK with a property tax hike we could hire more cops, remove snow and fight mosquitoes. But, everybody is very averse to tax hikes so I suspect we will continue to struggle with those issues.

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Old
08-02-2011, 03:32 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Edmonton's police force is meager at best and the murder rate reflects that.

Anyway... it's being overblown and people are needlessly panicking. Stay away from street crime/drugs and you'll be fine.
How are the police supposed to stop murders?

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Old
08-02-2011, 03:34 PM
  #61
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Spending more money on Police Officers has never been shown to be statistically significant in reducing murder rates.

The "War on Drugs" was an apt title. Surprise surprise, people want their drugs. The "illegal" drugs are not even comparable to the ones our doctors peddle, illegal drugs are MUCH safer in terms of accidental overdoses and long-term health limitations.

Prescription drugs taken as prescribed in hospitals are the fourth leading cause of death in the U.S and Canada, after cancer, heart disease and strokes. They cause about 10,000 deaths a year in Canada and about 106,000 deaths a year and over two million serious injuries in the U.S. (Source: Lazarou et al JAMA Vol. 279 No. 15 pp.1200-1205 Incidence of Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients)

What makes illegal drugs so dangerous is that they're illegal. Not because they aren't "clean", but because those who control the supply do so illegally. They use guns to protect themselves and procur more stock. I may not be a big hip-hop fan, but Tupac said it best; First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers. Give 'em guns, step back, and watch 'em kill each other.

HF should allow political debates, because we all know we don't need anymore polls about whether RNH will make the team or not.

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08-02-2011, 03:48 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by phi1086 View Post
Spending more money on Police Officers has never been shown to be statistically significant in reducing murder rates.

The "War on Drugs" was an apt title. Surprise surprise, people want their drugs. The "illegal" drugs are not even comparable to the ones our doctors peddle, illegal drugs are MUCH safer in terms of accidental overdoses and long-term health limitations.

Prescription drugs taken as prescribed in hospitals are the fourth leading cause of death in the U.S and Canada, after cancer, heart disease and strokes. They cause about 10,000 deaths a year in Canada and about 106,000 deaths a year and over two million serious injuries in the U.S. (Source: Lazarou et al JAMA Vol. 279 No. 15 pp.1200-1205 Incidence of Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients)

What makes illegal drugs so dangerous is that they're illegal. Not because they aren't "clean", but because those who control the supply do so illegally. They use guns to protect themselves and procur more stock. I may not be a big hip-hop fan, but Tupac said it best; First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers. Give 'em guns, step back, and watch 'em kill each other.

HF should allow political debates, because we all know we don't need anymore polls about whether RNH will make the team or not.
Great great post

I see it as this take out domestic violence, and gang/drug related not a whole lot of murder in the city is occuring by random people getting killed.

I am in more fear when I hear about child abduction, or disappearances of people that aren't known for taking off and not letting know about there whereabouts.

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Old
08-02-2011, 03:55 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilChuck View Post
I don't think anyone on here can say that oil doesn't have negetive effect on society. It has its positives too. But the negatives far out weigh the positive in my opinion.
This is off topic, but I couldn't bite my tongue.

Our society runs on oil. I don't mean just Alberta, I mean the entire first world society.

Oil and gas does a lot more than just make Albertans money and fuel cars.

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Old
08-02-2011, 04:05 PM
  #64
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I don't think that is right, during the municipal election here Mayor Nenshi was arguing that our police budget was to high. He compared the budget to amount of police force and Calgary and Edmonton were pretty similar, but they were both higher then all other major cities in the country. The suggestion of gang related activity migrating north could be a reasonable explanation but I think Edmonton Murder rates have usually been higher then Calgary's.
I'm not sure if the hosts of Cop Talk are talking out of their ass..they've brought the numbers up a few times

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Old
08-02-2011, 04:09 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Eberle View Post
This is off topic, but I couldn't bite my tongue.

Our society runs on oil. I don't mean just Alberta, I mean the entire first world society.

Oil and gas does a lot more than just make Albertans money and fuel cars.
It's used to push electrons and used as grease for the motors that are being pushed by electrons?

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Old
08-02-2011, 04:23 PM
  #66
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You can't just make all drugs legal and think the problem is going to go away.

The fact that they are illegal means quite often the people doing them are avoiding public areas that could get them in trouble or busted. The consequences of getting caught are enough to stop most people from ever going near them.
You make it legal and all of a sudden someone is dropping acid on a bench outside safeway or going near a playground on pcp or driving around on meth. I'm not saying it doesn't happen already but it sure as hell will happen more, just like it does with alcohol.
Everyone and their dog drives after 1 or 2 drinks.


Also the mental health issues involved with street drugs is ridiculous. That won't go away when you make it legal.
You'll have young people experimenting more because the government would be saying its OK to do and they'd be uncovering underlying mental health issues that may not ever surface, whether it's addictive behaviour or a general case of the crazies, a lot sooner.
That puts enormous costs on the healthcare system.

You get on some of these street drugs that are highly addictive and you will never be a productive member of society again based on their side effects and the fact that they make you a worthless sack of **** for days on end.
Prescription meds taken properly that cause these problems are taken because they have weighed the risks and benefits and figured being stuck on your ass all day is safer than dieing.

AND if you don't have clinical studies to quote me on the longterm safety of doing heroin,cocaine, meth, etc dont even try saying "illegal drugs are MUCH safer in terms of accidental overdoses and long-term health limitations." Cause that would be dumb

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Old
08-02-2011, 04:44 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
How are the police supposed to stop murders?
It's been said over and over and over and over again but there simply aren't enough police officers to deal with violent crime in a city with the urban sprawl that Edmonton has.

Do you remember two years ago (or was it last year...) when people were reporting being accosted by panhandlers and shady characters around the Stanley Milner Library downtown? I mean, this is the city centre, right by city hall and it should be considered a safe area. SHOULD. For some damn reason police presence in that area was next to nil until those concerns were addressed.

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Old
08-02-2011, 04:50 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
You can't just make all drugs legal and think the problem is going to go away.

The fact that they are illegal means quite often the people doing them are avoiding public areas that could get them in trouble or busted. The consequences of getting caught are enough to stop most people from ever going near them.
You make it legal and all of a sudden someone is dropping acid on a bench outside safeway or going near a playground on pcp or driving around on meth. I'm not saying it doesn't happen already but it sure as hell will happen more, just like it does with alcohol.
Everyone and their dog drives after 1 or 2 drinks.


Also the mental health issues involved with street drugs is ridiculous. That won't go away when you make it legal.
You'll have young people experimenting more because the government would be saying its OK to do and they'd be uncovering underlying mental health issues that may not ever surface, whether it's addictive behaviour or a general case of the crazies, a lot sooner.
That puts enormous costs on the healthcare system.

You get on some of these street drugs that are highly addictive and you will never be a productive member of society again based on their side effects and the fact that they make you a worthless sack of **** for days on end.
Prescription meds taken properly that cause these problems are taken because they have weighed the risks and benefits and figured being stuck on your ass all day is safer than dieing.

AND if you don't have clinical studies to quote me on the longterm safety of doing heroin,cocaine, meth, etc dont even try saying "illegal drugs are MUCH safer in terms of accidental overdoses and long-term health limitations." Cause that would be dumb
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/gr...whitepaper.pdf

Case in point.

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Old
08-02-2011, 04:50 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Everyone and their dog drives after 1 or 2 drinks.
Not everyone does.

And that could be solved by taking collisions much more seriously than we do. But, since we all "need" to drive, we have an unspoken agreement to not punish vehicular incidents too harshly.

So we end up killing our mothers, fathers, sons and daughters, just in case we find ourselves blitzed or texting behind the wheel one day. Cost of doing business.

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Old
08-02-2011, 05:08 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Baby Nilsson View Post
As far as I can tell, Portugal did not legalize the drug trade.

Trafficking, the problem stated in Edmonton's case, is still illegal there.

Their results through decriminalization could prove that my general assumptions are maybe too drastic, at least in Portugal. But again that's not legalization.

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Old
08-02-2011, 05:13 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
As far as I can tell, Portugal did not legalize the drug trade.

Trafficking, the problem stated in Edmonton's case, is still illegal there.

Their results through decriminalization could prove that my general assumptions are maybe too drastic, at least in Portugal. But again that's not legalization.
True, outright legalization would be just as stupid. But I'm not sure if that was the initial argument in the first place.

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Old
08-02-2011, 05:22 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Baby Nilsson View Post
True, outright legalization would be just as stupid. But I'm not sure if that was the initial argument in the first place.
well i thought it was :
street drugs are safer than prescription drugs
illegal drugs are dangerous because of the people who sell them illegally

IMO prescription drugs and street drugs are all poison, just that one has studies for the drugs and is regulated.....and you can't make trafficking legal.. ever

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Old
08-02-2011, 05:26 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
IMO prescription drugs and street drugs are all poison, just that one has studies for the drugs and is regulated.....and you can't make trafficking legal.. ever
http://www.molsoncoorscanada.com/en/Index.aspx

http://www.imperialtobaccocanada.com/

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Old
08-02-2011, 05:37 PM
  #74
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haha there is definitely an argument to be made about those two, but I mean trafficking the currently illegal stuff

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Old
08-02-2011, 05:40 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by phi1086 View Post
Spending more money on Police Officers has never been shown to be statistically significant in reducing murder rates.

The "War on Drugs" was an apt title. Surprise surprise, people want their drugs. The "illegal" drugs are not even comparable to the ones our doctors peddle, illegal drugs are MUCH safer in terms of accidental overdoses and long-term health limitations.

Prescription drugs taken as prescribed in hospitals are the fourth leading cause of death in the U.S and Canada, after cancer, heart disease and strokes. They cause about 10,000 deaths a year in Canada and about 106,000 deaths a year and over two million serious injuries in the U.S. (Source: Lazarou et al JAMA Vol. 279 No. 15 pp.1200-1205 Incidence of Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients)

What makes illegal drugs so dangerous is that they're illegal. Not because they aren't "clean", but because those who control the supply do so illegally. They use guns to protect themselves and procur more stock. I may not be a big hip-hop fan, but Tupac said it best; First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers. Give 'em guns, step back, and watch 'em kill each other.

HF should allow political debates, because we all know we don't need anymore polls about whether RNH will make the team or not.
It's amazing how many people don't realize that.

Great post.

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