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Time to place your bids for Joe Thornton...

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Old
08-08-2004, 12:20 PM
  #151
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Maybe, but one thing Regehr does posses is a booming shot from the point, and a strong outlet pass. Hey, maybe not the offensive vision that, say, Leopold has, but working the 1st PP unit with Leopold, if Regehr ever could get that shot off quicker, he will hit a consistant 10-12 goals a season - which is far from "one dimensional player" as Ott=Snott suggested. To use stats purely as your reasoning is weak, since Regehr has never been given an chance to go on the offensive, and ontop of the skills I just mentioned, it takes time to improve the quickness of release, decision making (ie. when to shot, when to fake, when to pass, when to sidestep a defender ect) so I think to say that his offensive game won't develop really ignores all aspects of his game and development, and all hockey matters are completely written off because of a bunch of stats when he was a 7th defenseman.
First of all, and I may be wrong since I stopped reading this thread before I got in on the "one-dimensional" discussion, wasn't it a question of him being one-dimensional at the moment and not the future? Regardless... yes his outlet pass is good, perhaps even exceptional. He has the "booming" shot that is shared by... well, a whole lot of defenseman that never were and never could be. Having that shot doesn't mean anything is going to happen with it.

You want to call using stats ridiculous when you're using conjecture and gypsy-like fortune telling to figure that he will speed up his release and somehow get some offensive sense... putting it all together to become no longer one-dimensional.

He might develop some offensive abilities... he might not. He isn't showing much, that's for damn sure.

But it doesn't really matter, because at the moment he is one-dimensional. I'm broke. I might win the lottery next year. I'm still broke.

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Old
08-08-2004, 01:06 PM
  #152
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I went to a Joe Thornton thread and a Robyn Regehr argument broke out!

Who knew?

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Old
08-08-2004, 01:19 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob_paxon
First of all, and I may be wrong since I stopped reading this thread before I got in on the "one-dimensional" discussion, wasn't it a question of him being one-dimensional at the moment and not the future? Regardless... yes his outlet pass is good, perhaps even exceptional. He has the "booming" shot that is shared by... well, a whole lot of defenseman that never were and never could be. Having that shot doesn't mean anything is going to happen with it.

You want to call using stats ridiculous when you're using conjecture and gypsy-like fortune telling to figure that he will speed up his release and somehow get some offensive sense... putting it all together to become no longer one-dimensional.

He might develop some offensive abilities... he might not. He isn't showing much, that's for damn sure.

But it doesn't really matter, because at the moment he is one-dimensional. I'm broke. I might win the lottery next year. I'm still broke.
I agree with all of your points. But, again, I point out that saying a defensemen is "one-dimensional" because he is only exceptional in his own end is like saying a goaltender is one dimensional because he only excells at stoping the puck. Regehr may be the best young defensive dman in the league. I personally couldn't care less how many points he scores.

The Isles have 4 dmen who are offensively skilled. Each one of them is easily capable of 40 points next year. Without a moment's hesitation, I would trade any of them for Regehr.

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Old
08-08-2004, 01:53 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
I went to a Joe Thornton thread and a Robyn Regehr argument broke out!

Who knew?
maybe if I post a Robyn Regher thread, we'll get some Joe Thornton trade offers?

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Old
08-08-2004, 02:03 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Regehr has never shown a hint of offensive abilities. Even in juniors, he was a purely defensive player. So what? He is a great defensive dman. I personlly couldn't care less if he doens't score, and think his lack of offense has zero implications for his overall value.
I agree with Darth here. Regeher is an awesome defensive dman. Probably a Top10 in the NHL and likely to get better. Is he an offensive minded dman. No way. I disagree in one small way. I don't think he is an offensive liability. I see that part of his game coming around some. I watched alot of him and he doesn't destroy the offensive flow. He doesn't have the MacInnis shot or the Potvin wrister or Coffey skating ability. I do look for him to put up some modest offensive numbers though.

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Old
08-08-2004, 02:19 PM
  #156
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"Fair" or not, I don't think that Ottawa can afford to downgrade defensively in order to upgrade its offense. Fiscally, however, they can probably manage it; keep in mind that with bonuses Redden and Spezza are two of the highest-paid players on the team.

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Old
08-08-2004, 03:06 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob_paxon
First of all, and I may be wrong since I stopped reading this thread before I got in on the "one-dimensional" discussion, wasn't it a question of him being one-dimensional at the moment and not the future? Regardless... yes his outlet pass is good, perhaps even exceptional. He has the "booming" shot that is shared by... well, a whole lot of defenseman that never were and never could be. Having that shot doesn't mean anything is going to happen with it.

You want to call using stats ridiculous when you're using conjecture and gypsy-like fortune telling to figure that he will speed up his release and somehow get some offensive sense... putting it all together to become no longer one-dimensional.

He might develop some offensive abilities... he might not. He isn't showing much, that's for damn sure.

But it doesn't really matter, because at the moment he is one-dimensional. I'm broke. I might win the lottery next year. I'm still broke.
How players hit over 100 MPH consistantly?

I call looking strictly at stats ridiculus considering that prior to this season, the number of games he played and his stats were as a 7th defenseman with little ice time and no PP time. Last season he did. Judging a 24 year old defenseman by what he's shown thus far is ridiculus in itself. Regehr will get better. Will he improve his release? Undoubtely. It doesn't take a gypsy to figure out that Regehr learning curve is starting to peak, and it doesn't take a gypsy to figure out that a 24 year old defenseman will improve.

And thus, your last remark is totally irrelevent to the topic and hand, and disgreards all logic, trends, history and legit arguments in favour of bizzare logic and comparisons.

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Old
08-08-2004, 04:25 PM
  #158
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Col: Joe Thornton
Boston:Right Peter Forsberg,Sakic,Blake,Foote,Liles,Tanguay,Hejduk,Sk rastins 1 rounder 2005 1 rounder 2006

Deal??

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Old
08-08-2004, 04:37 PM
  #159
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Boston has got some very tempting offers so far, and the two best offers by far have been...

Datsyuk, Fischer, 1st -- Top 2dman, #1 Centre, low 1st... very good offer for both sides.

Redden, Spezza, 1st -- Just a question to Ottawa fans... do you remember partaking in a deal within the last 5 years that looked something like that? Ottawa would be wise to hold onto this package...


As far as that absurd Leopold debate goes... he is not as good as some Flames fans claim. His defensive game is below average, and he seems to be leaning towards being a powerplay specialist. He's most comparable to Liles from Colorado, or possibly even Bergeron from Edmonton.

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Old
08-08-2004, 04:40 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
Col: Joe Thornton
Boston:Right Peter Forsberg,Sakic,Blake,Foote,Liles,Tanguay,Hejduk,Sk rastins 1 rounder 2005 1 rounder 2006

Deal??
No Hinote, No deal!!!! :lol

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Old
08-08-2004, 05:04 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8
I look at like Boynton is 65% of Redden and Spezza is 50% of Thornton. With the money Joe will get, this is a deal that would be possible, although the Bruins may want a role player back as well. maybe Ottawa would have to trade some salary, like Smolinksi, then the Bruins would have to give a prospect....Confusing...

Thornton-Boynton-Huml for Spezza-Redden-Smolinski.
More reasonable than the original Spezza-Redden-1st (which was extremely stupid from an Ottawa point of vue, Mucks isnt the best GM but he's not Réjean Houle)

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Old
08-08-2004, 05:28 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larionov Fan
As far as that absurd Leopold debate goes... he is not as good as some Flames fans claim. His defensive game is below average, and he seems to be leaning towards being a powerplay specialist. He's most comparable to Liles from Colorado, or possibly even Bergeron from Edmonton.
Leopold defensive game is NOT below average. Saying that just goes to show how little you know about him and the average NHL defense play. Sutter is a DAMN tough coach and a defense first kind of guy. He would not be playing Leopold 15.5+ regular strength minutes per game or almost 3 minutes of PK time per game if his defense was so "below average".

I shake my head at you...

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Old
08-08-2004, 05:35 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Leopold defensive game is NOT below average. Saying that just goes to show how little you know about him and the average NHL defense play. Sutter is a DAMN tough coach and a defense first kind of guy. He would not be playing Leopold 15.5+ regular strength minutes per game or almost 3 minutes of PK time per game if his defense was so "below average".

I shake my head at you...

I'm not going to get into an argument, but yes, it is below average. Take a second and think here... how many players can Leopold clear from the front of the net? Not many. Don't get me wrong, he's a very skilled young player, but he's not worthy of being on the top defensive pairing. You can throw stats at me... but you have to look at what the player can do to analyze him, stats are only part of the answer. Also, 15 minutes is what I'd expect Leopold to play... he brings a lot to the table... there's no sense in keeping one of your only creative players off the ice.

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08-08-2004, 05:52 PM
  #164
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Leopold played with Regeher and the majority many times they were used to defend against top lines. Sutter would not be using Leopold in this situations, OR PK situations as well if his defensive game was "so below average". Guys like Regeger, Warrener, Lydman, Gautheir would have gotten more PK icetime and top line defending icetime but Sutter deceided to use Leopold more in those situations. I would take Sutter's use of Leopold over your statement to judge his defensive play ALOT more than your opinion. When was the last time you were an NHL coach and decided how to use players? Like I Sutter, Sutter using Leopold in defensive situations does NOT show that his defensive game is as bad as you say it is.

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Old
08-08-2004, 06:30 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larionov Fan
I'm not going to get into an argument, but yes, it is below average. Take a second and think here... how many players can Leopold clear from the front of the net? Not many. Don't get me wrong, he's a very skilled young player, but he's not worthy of being on the top defensive pairing. You can throw stats at me... but you have to look at what the player can do to analyze him, stats are only part of the answer. Also, 15 minutes is what I'd expect Leopold to play... he brings a lot to the table... there's no sense in keeping one of your only creative players off the ice.
Wow. Just... wow.

I guess if your not physical, you are automatically a below average defenseman.

Man, was I ever wrong in listening to Darryl Sutter, a man paid to coach and GM a NHL team, when he sends out Regehr and the defensive liability Jordan Leopold against the other teams top lines, and to work the PK.

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Old
08-08-2004, 06:36 PM
  #166
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Sheesh, this is supposed to be a Thornton thread, not how Regehr and Leopold are the best defenseman in the game.

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Old
08-08-2004, 07:01 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by 19bruins19
Sheesh, this is supposed to be a Thornton thread, not how Regehr and Leopold are the best defenseman in the game.
I must have missed that post.

Where does it say that?

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Old
08-08-2004, 07:30 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Wow. Just... wow.

I guess if your not physical, you are automatically a below average defenseman.

Man, was I ever wrong in listening to Darryl Sutter, a man paid to coach and GM a NHL team, when he sends out Regehr and the defensive liability Jordan Leopold against the other teams top lines, and to work the PK.

Well unfortunately I am not an NHL coach.... but I'll tell ya what... instead of me pointing out the obvious, and you contesting it... just let Leopold's play show you next year. The kid is a great offensive talent and can skate marvelously, but his defensive game is not exactly where you seem to think it is.

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Old
08-08-2004, 07:56 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
I must have missed that post.

Where does it say that?
I was over exaggerating, but one flame fan actually posted that Leopold was the best young defenceman.

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Old
08-08-2004, 07:59 PM
  #170
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It's amazing that after four months some canuck fans are still bitter.


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Old
08-08-2004, 08:02 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19bruins19
I was over exaggerating, but one flame fan actually posted that Leopold was the best young defenceman.
For the 417th time, no one said he was the best young defenceman.

To cover up for his mis-reading of the post, the guy just edited the quote in his post to make it look that way. (Which I think he should be banned for, that is something terrible to do, especially editing out a word germane to the subject of the sentence.)

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Old
08-08-2004, 08:08 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamer
It's amazing that after four months some canuck fans are still bitter.

And there it is..the unoriginal 'you're just bitter' response'

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Old
08-08-2004, 09:15 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19bruins19
I was over exaggerating, but one flame fan actually posted that Leopold was the best young defenceman.
Where?

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Old
08-08-2004, 09:57 PM
  #174
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To the Celtics- Carter

To the Leafs- Thorton

?

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Old
08-08-2004, 10:00 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoman
To the Celtics- Carter

To the Leafs- Thorton

?
It's Thornton. not thorton.

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