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Oilers should make a play for Shea Weber

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Old
08-03-2011, 10:59 AM
  #51
Oilbleeder
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I'd be scared to trade with Nashville, only because I can count on one hand how many trades they've 'lost'.

It won't come cheap either. MPS + Marincin + 2012 1st + is probably going the other way.

Weber, technically, hasn't even hit his prime yet. Scarily enough, he could technically improve.

He's a top-5 D-man who's young and can play in every facet of the game.

If Nashville has to trade him, then they'll use it to plug every other hole in their roster I'd think.

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08-03-2011, 11:10 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
I'd be scared to trade with Nashville, only because I can count on one hand how many trades they've 'lost'.
It won't come cheap either. MPS + Marincin + 2012 1st + is probably going the other way.

Weber, technically, hasn't even hit his prime yet. Scarily enough, he could technically improve.

He's a top-5 D-man who's young and can play in every facet of the game.

If Nashville has to trade him, then they'll use it to plug every other hole in their roster I'd think.
What exactly have they won?

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08-03-2011, 11:30 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
I'd be scared to trade with Nashville, only because I can count on one hand how many trades they've 'lost'.

It won't come cheap either. MPS + Marincin + 2012 1st + is probably going the other way.

Weber, technically, hasn't even hit his prime yet. Scarily enough, he could technically improve.

He's a top-5 D-man who's young and can play in every facet of the game.

If Nashville has to trade him, then they'll use it to plug every other hole in their roster I'd think.
As much as I like Paajarvi, if that were the 'cost' to acquire Weber I assume the Oilers would take it and run.

Whitney-Weber could be quite the tandem. One move and the defense becomes one of the Oilers' strengths, rather than one of its most obvious problems.

The only issue I have with what you're proposing in terms of trade value is that none of the pieces going back for Weber are proven. I don't know if a rookie, a pick, and Marincin would be enough. Perhaps Hemsky would be in the equation rather than Paajarvi... I am not sure.. maybe even Hemsky and another pick: Hemsky, two firsts, and Marincin. Even with that, I would pull the trigger on the trade.

Then deal Gilbert.

Weber, Smid, Peckham, Sutton, and to some degree Barker and Whitney. The defense becomes a whole lot nastier than it was last season. And maybe Teubert makes it into the lineup... even nastier still.

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08-03-2011, 11:35 AM
  #54
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I am all over going after Weber. Although I thought I read he had a 3 team short list of who he would go to if a trade was to go down. I would like to think that a player of his stature would look at this scenario as a positive career move.

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08-03-2011, 11:41 AM
  #55
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Paajarvi + Gagner + Smid + 2012 1st for Weber

I think Shea would sign here because we'd make the playoffs this year and it would speed up the rebuild incredibly. I'm sure he knows we have a good shot to win the cup in the next few years especially with him on the blueline.

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08-03-2011, 11:43 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Njoy Oilers View Post
I am all over going after Weber. Although I thought I read he had a 3 team short list of who he would go to if a trade was to go down. I would like to think that a player of his stature would look at this scenario as a positive career move.
He doesn't really have an option does he? Sure he has a short list, but do those 3 teams have room for him? Most of the teams have their rosters set for the upcoming year with maybe a tweak here and there.

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08-03-2011, 11:51 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
He doesn't really have an option does he? Sure he has a short list, but do those 3 teams have room for him? Most of the teams have their rosters set for the upcoming year with maybe a tweak here and there.
Good point. But if a team like the Rangers had a chance to pluck him, I bet they wold be all over moving pieces, possibly in a multi team deal to get him. My point was that it would be a welcome position for him to WANT to come to the Oilers.

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08-03-2011, 12:13 PM
  #58
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Here's what I'd offer up if he's willing to sign here:

Gagner, Hemsky, Petry/Marincin, 2012 2nd, Anaheim's 2013 2nd

They immediately improve their offense, get a solid D to help fill part of the hole that Weber leaves, and 2 quality picks. I'd be against trading one of our big 3 or next year's 1st unless there wasn't much added to either Paajarvi or the 2012 1st.

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08-03-2011, 12:28 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
What exactly have they won?
Nothing yet, but they're window isn't closing for a good while(granted they keep Weber). They are also set in terms of goaltending and defense for the next half decade.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
The only issue I have with what you're proposing in terms of trade value is that none of the pieces going back for Weber are proven. I don't know if a rookie, a pick, and Marincin would be enough. Perhaps Hemsky would be in the equation rather than Paajarvi... I am not sure.. maybe even Hemsky and another pick: Hemsky, two firsts, and Marincin. Even with that, I would pull the trigger on the trade.
Very true.

It might be something like:

Hemsky + MPS + 1st/2nd 2012 + mid level D prospect?

They get something for now and the future.

It's hard to predict his value

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08-03-2011, 12:37 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Nothing yet, but they're window isn't closing for a good while(granted they keep Weber). They are also set in terms of goaltending and defense for the next half decade.




Very true.

It might be something like:

Hemsky + MPS + 1st/2nd 2012 + mid level D prospect?

They get something for now and the future.

It's hard to predict his value
No way in hell do I move Paajarvi and our 2012 1st. If Weber gets hurt we could be giving up a top 5 pick and one of the top young players/prospects in the game. IMO if we're moving either asset that is the cherry on the sundae, if they ask for 2 cherries they can watch him walk and we should open up the vault for him.

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08-03-2011, 12:37 PM
  #61
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Hemsky with 1 year left on his contract is a rental player. Nashville isn't going to trade their best player for a rental, even if the rest of the package around him looks good.

The Gagner, MPS, Omark ideas of roster players make the most sense to me. I'm not really sure they'd be interested in Gilbert, especially at his salary.

P.S. It's fun to speculate but I'd be willing to bet that Steve-o hasn't even picked up the phone on this one.

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08-03-2011, 12:39 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
Hemsky with 1 year left on his contract is a rental player. Nashville isn't going to trade their best player for a rental, even if the rest of the package around him looks good.

The Gagner, MPS, Omark ideas of roster players make the most sense to me. I'm not really sure they'd be interested in Gilbert, especially at his salary.
Hemsky offers them something they sorely need, a game breaker up front. If we did a sign and trade of both players and added to Hemsky it would probably be in both teams best interests.

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08-03-2011, 12:42 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Nothing yet, but they're window isn't closing for a good while(granted they keep Weber). They are also set in terms of goaltending and defense for the next half decade.




Very true.

It might be something like:

Hemsky + MPS + 1st/2nd 2012 + mid level D prospect?

They get something for now and the future.

It's hard to predict his value
I meant in terms of trades? What did they ever get back for Hartnell, Timonen, Vokoun, and others?

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08-03-2011, 12:47 PM
  #64
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I think it's important that we hang onto that 2012 first rounder.

I would go as high as MPS,Gagner,Petry and Smid in exchange for Weber. Only way they get a first rounder in 2012 is if we can land Columbus' first rounder in exchange for Hemsky. For all we know now that Oilers first pick will be closer to a lottery selection.

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08-03-2011, 12:47 PM
  #65
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Come on Moo, this is a fallacy and you know it. Give him a comparable instead so there can be an interesting discussion.

I honked this horn on the main board a few weeks ago, where I claimed that because of Poile's negotiating position Weber was never gonna garner a return equal to his "intrinsic" value.

Of course Preds fans (and some other fans as well) were all over me saying it would take Hall AND Nugent-Hopkins and then some.

Though that'll teach me to go to the main board I guess...
The price of Hall+RNH++ is insane, granted.

But are you really asking me to defend the cost to acquire one of the best young Dmen in the game? An Olympic gold medalist, NHL All-Star, franchise Dman?

When I made my initial pitch I said Nashville needs offense players, and my proposal is centred around that assumption. That's why I think it's a fair deal for both sides.

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08-03-2011, 01:25 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
No way in hell do I move Paajarvi and our 2012 1st. If Weber gets hurt we could be giving up a top 5 pick and one of the top young players/prospects in the game. IMO if we're moving either asset that is the cherry on the sundae, if they ask for 2 cherries they can watch him walk and we should open up the vault for him.
The problem is 2 things.

1) if we're trading for a top-5 D-man in the game, then we're going to have to be prepared to lose some pretty valuable assets. The fact that he's 25, means for the next 7-8 years, we could have our anchor on the top-pairing.

2.) Competition. You have to know every team and their dog is going to go after Weber. He's a Norris caliber D-man who is not only young but extremely well rounded. It's going to drive the price up. Take Boston for example. With the way their team is right now, they could probably afford to give up guys like Dougie Hamilton + Jared Knight + picks + salary for Weber and be perfectly happy if they overpay. Why? Because their chance at repeating just went up considerably with a Chara-Weber top-pairing.

If we're trading for Weber, it wont come cheap imo.

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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I meant in terms of trades? What did they ever get back for Hartnell, Timonen, Vokoun, and others?
IIRC, Vokoun turned into a top-10 pick in the draft where they moved up and selected Colin Wilson.

Timonen and Hartnell were traded to Philly for their 1st round pick back which they traded to Philly for Forsberg. (both are wins because they got Forsberg for Upshall and Parent, neither which has done much and to UFA-to-be for their 1st back)

They got S-Kost for a late round pick IIRC, and he scored 20g for them last season.

Fisher for a 1st looks like a wash for both teams.

Grebeshkov for a 2nd was a loss for them and a win for us.

That's off the top of my head.

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08-03-2011, 01:29 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
The problem is 2 things.

1) if we're trading for a top-5 D-man in the game, then we're going to have to be prepared to lose some pretty valuable assets. The fact that he's 25, means for the next 7-8 years, we could have our anchor on the top-pairing.

2.) Competition. You have to know every team and their dog is going to go after Weber. He's a Norris caliber D-man who is not only young but extremely well rounded. It's going to drive the price up. Take Boston for example. With the way their team is right now, they could probably afford to give up guys like Dougie Hamilton + Jared Knight + picks + salary for Weber and be perfectly happy if they overpay. Why? Because their chance at repeating just went up considerably with a Chara-Weber top-pairing.

If we're trading for Weber, it wont come cheap imo.



IIRC, Vokoun turned into a top-10 pick in the draft where they moved up and selected Colin Wilson.

Timonen and Hartnell were traded to Philly for their 1st round pick back which they traded to Philly for Forsberg. (both are wins because they got Forsberg for Upshall and Parent, neither which has done much and to UFA-to-be for their 1st back)

They got S-Kost for a late round pick IIRC, and he scored 20g for them last season.

Fisher for a 1st looks like a wash for both teams.

Grebeshkov for a 2nd was a loss for them and a win for us.

That's off the top of my head.
So it's not like they are bending other teams over. They are average at best.

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08-03-2011, 01:52 PM
  #68
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Weber's salary arbitration is 7.5M per.. Interesting to see if Nashville takes it considering there counter offer to Weber's 8.5M was 4.75 for 1 year.

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08-03-2011, 01:53 PM
  #69
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Weber's salary arbitration is 7.5M per.. Interesting to see if Nashville takes it considering there counter offer to Weber's 8.5M was 4.75 for 1 year.

internal budget or not, I don't think they can afford to let him walk.

...but if they walked away, I'd think the Oilers would toss him a big offer. Not really sure he'd take it, but they'd sure as hell try.

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08-03-2011, 01:57 PM
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internal budget or not, I don't think they can afford to let him walk.

...but if they walked away, I'd think the Oilers would toss him a big offer. Not really sure he'd take it, but they'd sure as hell try.
I'd be willing to give him 7.5 over 5 years. He's young and already a Norris caliber defenseman. Plus, I don't think it would affect having RNH, Hall, Eberle's contracts needed in 3 years.

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08-03-2011, 01:58 PM
  #71
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Club elected arbitration apparently means NSH CAN'T walk away.

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08-03-2011, 01:58 PM
  #72
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ah, I was mistaken, I guess it was a club-elected arbitration, they're stuck with the award from the sounds of things.

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08-03-2011, 02:02 PM
  #73
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Gives Weber the highest cap hit and 5th highest salary.

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08-03-2011, 02:02 PM
  #74
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internal budget or not, I don't think they can afford to let him walk.

...but if they walked away, I'd think the Oilers would toss him a big offer. Not really sure he'd take it, but they'd sure as hell try.
It's not so much this year as next year that it affects. They've got him for this year but next year they have to go through the process again and sign UFA's Suter and Rinne. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Preds, they are going to have a tough time staying competitive and not going broke after next season.

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08-03-2011, 02:11 PM
  #75
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It's not so much this year as next year that it affects. They've got him for this year but next year they have to go through the process again and sign UFA's Suter and Rinne. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Preds, they are going to have a tough time staying competitive and not going broke after next season.
Tough to say, the way things are going the floor next year could be at where they need to spend in order to sign those 2. In Rinne's case he is already sitting at a 3.4 cap hit so he might not demand that much more of a cap hit.

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