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Pollak: Sharks sign D Colin White to one year deal, $1m

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08-03-2011, 05:40 PM
  #176
Led Zappa
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Originally Posted by Pain Monster View Post
I don't think he's underestimating the top 6; I'm assuming we can all agree it's as good as it's been in years. His point (and one I agree with) is that the Sharks need offense from their third line if they plan on going deep in the playoffs as recent champions and finalists have demonstrated. It makes no sense in Todd McLellan's system to ice a third line of McGinn, Handzus and Mitchell. TMac will ensure the Marleau line faces top competition which means the soft minutes the third line will receive as a result need to be capitalized on and none of those three are fit to accomplish that.
I don't think I said anything any different except that our top 6 and Offensive-D are SO good that they CAN cover for our third line deficiency . We could put Pavelski on the third with McGinn on the second line and still have a powerfull top 9. Especially for now. We'll get our winger. There is no rush.

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08-03-2011, 05:41 PM
  #177
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How are you convinced Vlasic is the one on the way out? Demers has all that upside, is likely to be cheap for another few years, and Boyle's NTC goes limited next year or the year after just like Heatley's, and if DW has shown anything this offseason, it's that he's cold as ice.

You're telling me that the 37-38 year old D-man with a 6.667 million cap hit is going to stay over the mid 20's d-men making half or less? Burns take's the top scoring D-man role, Demers slots into the other PP slot with Braun on the 2nd pairing and Boyle finishes up in Winnipeg. Ice Cold.

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08-03-2011, 05:43 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by KzooShark View Post
How are you convinced Vlasic is the one on the way out? Demers has all that upside, is likely to be cheap for another few years, and Boyle's NTC goes limited next year or the year after just like Heatley's, and if DW has shown anything this offseason, it's that he's cold as ice.

You're telling me that the 37-38 year old D-man with a 6.667 million cap hit is going to stay over the mid 20's d-men making half or less?
There is a possibility in the future, but at the moment, Boyle earns every dollar of his paycheck. He stays in great shape in the off-season and could probably keep it up for at least another 2 seasons.

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08-03-2011, 05:45 PM
  #179
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I've been one of the advocates for another "top six" caliber forward in case one of the top six forwards go down but I hope the top six can be healthy during the regular season and we can grab someone at the TD for cheaper than Vlasic.

Don't mean to be a downer but watch the Sharks get knocked out because they don't score enough in the playoffs this year
It's always one or the other. We don't score enough so DW blows up the defense and trades for Heatley. Our defense was the problem last year so he trades Seto and Heatley to reload the defense.
Get another scoring forward DW!!!

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08-03-2011, 05:48 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
There is a possibility in the future, but at the moment, Boyle earns every dollar of his paycheck. He stays in great shape in the off-season and could probably keep it up for at least another 2 seasons.
Pointing out the other options. For that matter, Murray will be 33 when this contract expires and he's the kind of D-man that already has to use his brains to make up his lack of speed. He drops another half or full step, and we've got Kyle McLaren 2.0 on our hands. Guy that loves to hit but can't catch anyone to do it.

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08-03-2011, 05:52 PM
  #181
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My first thought when I saw that Colin White was signed: "Oh great, he won multiple Stanley Cups."

This is a good deal, though. White is no Wallin or Huskins. The Sharks have excellent defensive depth now.

I would not be surprised if a defenseman is traded for a forward. A third line forward that can fill in on one of the top two lines is a need, but a team can never have too much defensive depth.

I feel horrible for Vandermeer. He wanted to come to San Jose to try and win a Cup.

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08-03-2011, 05:55 PM
  #182
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Look, you guys are putting hate where there is none.

I love every player on this team, Vlasic included, and I will be bummed to see him go (if he does). However, its about winning, and I simply don't feel we are going to win a cup with this bottom 6 and NO players that can fill in for a top-6 injury. Not realistic.

If DW can somehow trade Moore, or middling prospects for a top-6 caliber guy, fantastic. We get to keep Vlasic and we are the better for it. Realistically though, i don't believe that's reasonable. The caliber of player I feel we need is going to require a solid return. We could send our few high end prospects and low picks, or we could move a player we can probably live without and attempt to strengthen a position of weakness. I think it's more likely DW could leverage Vlasic into a difference making forward and perhaps a prospect ontop of that than that he can leverage our pretty lousy futures for a good player.

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08-03-2011, 06:04 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
If DW can somehow trade Moore, or middling prospects for a top-6 caliber guy, fantastic. We get to keep Vlasic and we are the better for it. Realistically though, i don't believe that's reasonable.
Who knows. There are bound to be a lot of sellers come the trade deadline. DW was able to trade Joslin and a 2nd for Ian White. Moore and a pick for a 2nd/3rd line tweener isn't out of the question. Personally, I'd rather have Moore than Joslin.

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08-03-2011, 06:06 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I don't think I said anything any different except that our top 6 and Offensive-D are SO good that they CAN cover for our third line deficiency . We could put Pavelski on the third with McGinn on the second line and still have a powerfull top 9. Especially for now. We'll get our winger. There is no rush.
Agree here. We've been looking for some solidity and depth and diversity in our D for some time now and, D.W. has finally certified that. The Burns signing alone, along with Boyle and Demers, will add to the strength of our offence and their abilities. I like this signing and as many have already said, a team can never go wrong with depth in the D core.

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08-03-2011, 06:10 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Look, you guys are putting hate where there is none.

I love every player on this team, Vlasic included, and I will be bummed to see him go (if he does). However, its about winning, and I simply don't feel we are going to win a cup with this bottom 6 and NO players that can fill in for a top-6 injury. Not realistic.

If DW can somehow trade Moore, or middling prospects for a top-6 caliber guy, fantastic. We get to keep Vlasic and we are the better for it. Realistically though, i don't believe that's reasonable. The caliber of player I feel we need is going to require a solid return. We could send our few high end prospects and low picks, or we could move a player we can probably live without and attempt to strengthen a position of weakness. I think it's more likely DW could leverage Vlasic into a difference making forward and perhaps a prospect ontop of that than that he can leverage our pretty lousy futures for a good player.
I know you don't hate Vlasic and you know I don't agree with trading him right now, even with White's addition. As solid a signing as this is, it is for depth. This thought that White is still a top four d-man is not something I agree with. He's like Murray. He can play sporadically but not consistently. There are only three guys that can log heavy minutes and still be effective at their role and that's Burns, Boyle, and Vlasic. All the others will get worn out and reduce their quality of play with rising minutes.

As for the forward position, if they can make the acquisition w/o moving anyone off their roster, it should be done. If not, go with what you have and see if someone steps up like McGinn, Mashinter, or one of the many that will get time in preseason. It will not kill our Cup chances if we pick up that forward later. If the third line has a tough go of it to start, move down Pavelski or Couture and move up Mitchell or McGinn and balance it out.

Moving Vlasic for that forward depth is only going to open up a fairly large hole on D that I have no interest in doing.

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08-03-2011, 06:11 PM
  #186
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http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/f...n_jose_sharks/

NJ POV on signing.

He/agent talked to teams in both conferences, but likes SJ's chances.

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08-03-2011, 06:17 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I know you don't hate Vlasic and you know I don't agree with trading him right now, even with White's addition. As solid a signing as this is, it is for depth. This thought that White is still a top four d-man is not something I agree with. He's like Murray. He can play sporadically but not consistently. There are only three guys that can log heavy minutes and still be effective at their role and that's Burns, Boyle, and Vlasic. All the others will get worn out and reduce their quality of play with rising minutes.

As for the forward position, if they can make the acquisition w/o moving anyone off their roster, it should be done. If not, go with what you have and see if someone steps up like McGinn, Mashinter, or one of the many that will get time in preseason. It will not kill our Cup chances if we pick up that forward later. If the third line has a tough go of it to start, move down Pavelski or Couture and move up Mitchell or McGinn and balance it out.

Moving Vlasic for that forward depth is only going to open up a fairly large hole on D that I have no interest in doing.
Then we simply disagree. I see the lack of top-6 depth as a MUCH larger hole than what losing Vlasic (or Murray) will create. I also believe White pretty equivalent defensively to either one, and even if he's step down, not by much.

Again, if DW can pull a rabbit out of the hat great, but if not, that bottom-6 is going to kill us. I have absolutely no confidence any of our guys will be effective in a top-6 role if needed.

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08-03-2011, 06:18 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by rangerssharks414 View Post
My first thought when I saw that Colin White was signed: "Oh great, he won multiple Stanley Cups."

This is a good deal, though. White is no Wallin or Huskins. The Sharks have excellent defensive depth now.

I would not be surprised if a defenseman is traded for a forward. A third line forward that can fill in on one of the top two lines is a need, but a team can never have too much defensive depth.

I feel horrible for Vandermeer. He wanted to come to San Jose to try and win a Cup.
What makes you so sure Vandermeer will be traded?

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08-03-2011, 06:20 PM
  #189
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What makes you so sure Vandermeer will be traded?
Don't think RS was advocating trading him. Vandermeer came to SJ to try and help win the Cup while building up his stock for next year. He can't really do that now since he's probably stuck in the press box.

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08-03-2011, 06:20 PM
  #190
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Vandy and White? DW seems to be beefing up our bottom pairing. And I'm not complaining.

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08-03-2011, 06:22 PM
  #191
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I agree somewhat with what Hockeyball and PF are saying. If we just bring in Wellwood cheap, we'll be able to see how the team does in the 1st half of the season and then make our move.

The only roster player I may be comfortable dealing with is Murray now since he and White are so close in skill sets and age.

But, the prudent side of me says just bring in Wellwood at this point and DW can golf for the rest of August.

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08-03-2011, 06:24 PM
  #192
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What makes you so sure Vandermeer will be traded?
I don't. He'll probably be a healthy scratch every game.

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08-03-2011, 06:27 PM
  #193
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Then we simply disagree. I see the lack of top-6 depth as a MUCH larger hole than what losing Vlasic (or Murray) will create. I also believe White pretty equivalent defensively to either one, and even if he's step down, not by much.

Again, if DW can pull a rabbit out of the hat great, but if not, that bottom-6 is going to kill us. I have absolutely no confidence any of our guys will be effective in a top-6 role if needed.
Even it is as big of a hole as you perceive it to be, it's not required for the team to address it before the season. Last year's Boston team is a prime example of that. They were no more offensive than we were last year and our offense didn't lose that much in the off-season. If it proves that nobody can step up and fill the need on the 3rd line, they can make a trade later like Boston did getting Chris Kelly and Rich Peverley.

As for the D, I can live with Murray being dealt but not Vlasic. The Sharks have three guys that can handle heavy minutes and maintain their standard quality of play and Vlasic is one of them. Murray isn't and White isn't either. Their actual defensive play may not be far off, even though Vlasic is still better than both overall, but if they're extended, Murray and White will fall off in quality of play.

I have confidence in Handzus in the top six role if necessary and if McGinn steps up and earns that 3rd line spot, I would have confidence in him to step up into the top six at that point as well. Neither will be as productive but that's not my expectation and I don't buy that the 3rd liners need to have that level of talent to be ample temporary replacements. You need the other big players on your team to step up more than you need one of your depth players to fill it.

They have space and off-roster assets that they can use to acquire a top six caliber forward but if not, rent one later but trading Vlasic or Murray now isn't something I'd do unless it was for a top line talent.

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08-03-2011, 06:28 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
I agree somewhat with what Hockeyball and PF are saying. If we just bring in Wellwood cheap, we'll be able to see how the team does in the 1st half of the season and then make our move.

The only roster player I may be comfortable dealing with is Murray now since he and White are so close in skill sets and age.

But, the prudent side of me says just bring in Wellwood at this point and DW can golf for the rest of August.
I've always been one of Wellwood's biggest proponents/defenders but I don't really see how he fits into the team anymore. Clowe, Thornton and Havlat are all pass-first players which is the same role Wellwood plays.

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08-03-2011, 06:28 PM
  #195
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Then we simply disagree. I see the lack of top-6 depth as a MUCH larger hole than what losing Vlasic (or Murray) will create. I also believe White pretty equivalent defensively to either one, and even if he's step down, not by much.

Again, if DW can pull a rabbit out of the hat great, but if not, that bottom-6 is going to kill us. I have absolutely no confidence any of our guys will be effective in a top-6 role if needed.
Vancouver took this bottom 6 to the cup finals:

laps, torres, hansen, glass, oreskovich, higgens (used on their 2nd line too)

and might have won if their defense wasn't totally banged up. BTW van had literally 9 dmen who played, and if they had one less they would have been screwed. tell me, is that the type of bottom 6 that is required to hit the cup finals? cuz i don't think ours is a whole lot worse than that.

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08-03-2011, 06:30 PM
  #196
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Although White isn't what he used to be, he is a very serviceable defensemen that you guys will definately like

He was a warrior for us and was always there to stick up for his teamates and a solid veteran presence for your locker room......served time as an assistant captain for us

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08-03-2011, 06:30 PM
  #197
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I don't. He'll probably be a healthy scratch every game.
I guess I read into that abit....

makes sense I guess, but I still think the guy will play more then we think (at least I hope he does).

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08-03-2011, 06:33 PM
  #198
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I've always been one of Wellwood's biggest proponents/defenders but I don't really see how he fits into the team anymore. Clowe, Thornton and Havlat are all pass-first players which is the same role Wellwood plays.
mitchell zeus wellwood won't be a terribad 3rd line i think, at worst they can cycle the puck and tire out the opposing team. positionally, wellwood is far above average defensively too, so it wouldn't be a bad shut down line either.

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08-03-2011, 06:34 PM
  #199
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mitchell zeus wellwood won't be a terribad 3rd line i think, at worst they can cycle the puck and tire out the opposing team. positionally, wellwood is far above average defensively too, so it wouldn't be a bad shut down line either.
For the 1st half of the season (or less) that is perfectly fine.

This team on paper should be easily no worse than 4th in the conference.

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08-03-2011, 06:35 PM
  #200
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Even it is as big of a hole as you perceive it to be, it's not required for the team to address it before the season. Last year's Boston team is a prime example of that. They were no more offensive than we were last year and our offense didn't lose that much in the off-season. If it proves that nobody can step up and fill the need on the 3rd line, they can make a trade later like Boston did getting Chris Kelly and Rich Peverley.

As for the D, I can live with Murray being dealt but not Vlasic. The Sharks have three guys that can handle heavy minutes and maintain their standard quality of play and Vlasic is one of them. Murray isn't and White isn't either. Their actual defensive play may not be far off, even though Vlasic is still better than both overall, but if they're extended, Murray and White will fall off in quality of play.

I have confidence in Handzus in the top six role if necessary and if McGinn steps up and earns that 3rd line spot, I would have confidence in him to step up into the top six at that point as well. Neither will be as productive but that's not my expectation and I don't buy that the 3rd liners need to have that level of talent to be ample temporary replacements. You need the other big players on your team to step up more than you need one of your depth players to fill it.

They have space and off-roster assets that they can use to acquire a top six caliber forward but if not, rent one later but trading Vlasic or Murray now isn't something I'd do unless it was for a top line talent.
The difference being the Bruins have a lot more futures than we do. Toronto made sure of that.

I'm not implying trading Vlasic for scraps, I'm implying trading him for an up and coming top-6 forward and a pick or prospect. Comeau is a perfect fit for our needs, and we can probably get them to add in another prospect to strengthen us down the road (and maybe help Worcester now).

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