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Look at some of our prospects

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Old
08-06-2004, 12:09 PM
  #1
dumpsathernow*
 
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Look at some of our prospects

and how this site rates them.

Dawes a 5.5. In other words a guy that was perhaps the most dominant player at the WJC's has little if any future in the NHL in the eyes of HF

Potter 5.5 A guy who made the WJC and played 20 minutes has little if any chance of every making the NHL

Wiseman 4.5 A productive, two way player at the AHL level who is young has no chance to make the NHL. A 4.5 rated player basically says he stinks.

Liffiton 5.5 A player who has been a go to guy on his OHL team and a rock on defense is thought of as a average to below average prospect.

I just think that our farm club isn't looked at objectively because of the simply fact we never gave kids a chance. I don't think it is fair to bash a players talent and production because of what the Rangers did in the past.

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08-06-2004, 12:19 PM
  #2
barnaby63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
and how this site rates them.

Dawes a 5.5. In other words a guy that was perhaps the most dominant player at the WJC's has little if any future in the NHL in the eyes of HF

Potter 5.5 A guy who made the WJC and played 20 minutes has little if any chance of every making the NHL

Wiseman 4.5 A productive, two way player at the AHL level who is young has no chance to make the NHL. A 4.5 rated player basically says he stinks.

Liffiton 5.5 A player who has been a go to guy on his OHL team and a rock on defense is thought of as a average to below average prospect.

I just think that our farm club isn't looked at objectively because of the simply fact we never gave kids a chance. I don't think it is fair to bash a players talent and production because of what the Rangers did in the past.

How many times must you be told? Those rankings havent been updated since last summer.

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Old
08-06-2004, 12:23 PM
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Your missing the point. Dawes was an offensive force before last year. Rating him a 5.5 was insane. Wiseman had a good offensive year in the AHL before last year. How is he rated a 4.5?

My point is I see lots of other players on this site who are rated 7 to 8's that haven't been productive minor league players at any point. My question is why? How do you justify rating an unproductive minor league player a 7 or 8 but take a productive minor league player and rate him a 4.5 or 5.5?

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08-06-2004, 12:28 PM
  #4
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Dawes has a lot to overcome if he's to make the jump from Juniors. If he does make it to the NHL, he'll probably be great, but there are still big questions as to whether his game will translate. A 5.5? maybe not, but he's by no means a sure thing to make it to the NHL.

I remain unsold on Wiseman as a regular NHL'er as opposed to a good AHL player and occasional call-up. 4.5 sounds right to me.

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08-06-2004, 12:29 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
Your missing the point. Dawes was an offensive force before last year. Rating him a 5.5 was insane. Wiseman had a good offensive year in the AHL before last year. How is he rated a 4.5?

My point is I see lots of other players on this site who are rated 7 to 8's that haven't been productive minor league players at any point. My question is why? How do you justify rating an unproductive minor league player a 7 or 8 but take a productive minor league player and rate him a 4.5 or 5.5?

It's not a central rating system. It's FANS giving some of their free time to do this. The guys that updated the Ranger site seem to be much more harsh than the ones from other sites. That's how you have a discrepancy.

I do agree that most of the Ranger prospects are rated WAY too low here but in reality this is not a professional scout's website.

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Old
08-06-2004, 12:41 PM
  #6
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Yeah I know that but I still think even a fan can look at production of a prospect and judge him somewhat fairly. No prospect for the most part is a lock. However, if Dawes is a 5.5 then we might as well release him.

I don't know why Wiseman would be a 4.5 He's a 2 way player who has put up 2 solid offensive years in a tough defensive league in the AHL and he's getting better.

Look at Pihlman on the Devils. The guy had 10 G, 19 A for a pathetic 29 points and is rated a 7.0. I don't care how bad your team is. You better put a lot more then 29 points up in the minors if you want to be rated the same as Fedor.

Wiseman on the other hand on a poor offensive team had stats the last 2 years

GM G A P
77 17 35 52
62 25 27 52

I just find it hard to believe because Pihlman is 6'3 it makes him a very good prospect. How about judging a player on production. I thought that was how it was done.

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08-06-2004, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
Yeah I know that but I still think even a fan can look at production of a prospect and judge him somewhat fairly. No prospect for the most part is a lock. However, if Dawes is a 5.5 then we might as well release him.

I don't know why Wiseman would be a 4.5 He's a 2 way player who has put up 2 solid offensive years in a tough defensive league in the AHL and he's getting better.

Look at Pihlman on the Devils. The guy had 10 G, 19 A for a pathetic 29 points and is rated a 7.0. I don't care how bad your team is. You better put a lot more then 29 points up in the minors if you want to be rated the same as Fedor.

Wiseman on the other hand on a poor offensive team had stats the last 2 years

GM G A P
77 17 35 52
62 25 27 52

I just find it hard to believe because Pihlman is 6'3 it makes him a very good prospect. How about judging a player on production. I thought that was how it was done.

It seems like you are focusing on the 'numbers' too much. I don't want to get into a big thing about this so I won't.

I'd advise you to email some of the HF people to explain it to ya.

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Old
08-06-2004, 01:28 PM
  #8
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I put little into HF now. I put emphasis on talent level for years with our prospects. What I found was if they weren't productive at the minor level they didn't make the pro's for us or anybody else.

I think it's pretty obvious if you can't get it done on the minor league level you won't do anything on the pro level

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08-06-2004, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
What I found was if they weren't productive at the minor level they didn't make the pro's for us or anybody else.

I think it's pretty obvious if you can't get it done on the minor league level you won't do anything on the pro level
Then what is your explanation of those who put up sizeable #'s in the minors, but are utter busts at the NHL level?

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08-06-2004, 01:48 PM
  #10
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That wasn't the point. We all know that happens. However, what unproductive minor league players go off in the pro's? The point was players who are productive in the minor leagues have a better chance of becoming good pro's.

I don't know why you must always take the opposite just to argue. That is common sense. A player who gets 15 points in the minors compared to 70, obviously stands a much worse chance of becoming a good pro. If you can't produce on the minor level why would you ever produce in the toughest league in the world.

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08-06-2004, 02:07 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
The point was players who are productive in the minor leagues have a better chance of becoming good pro's.

I don't know why you must always take the opposite just to argue. That is common sense. A player who gets 15 points in the minors compared to 70, obviously stands a much worse chance of becoming a good pro. If you can't produce on the minor level why would you ever produce in the toughest league in the world.
It's not about taking the opposite point of view just to argue about it. I would gladly agree with you if I believed in what you were saying. There happen to be more things than just point totals that say whether or not a player will be a success in the NHL. What about those players who are not "scorers" per se. But are rather defensive forwards and defensive defensemen? Are you saying that if those players do not pile up points in the minors, then they will not be good players in the NHL?
A player like Dawes is a long-shot to make the league. Piling up points in juniors mean absolutely nothing. Both him and Prucha have MAJOR size issues. And Wiseman is a long shot to make it as anything but a 3rd/4th line player.
There is a BIG difference in producing mere points in the minors and actually PRODUCING as a player (not just point scoring) at the NHL level.

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08-06-2004, 02:18 PM
  #12
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Its not like those guys are great prospects.

Its doubtful any of them ever make an impact in the NHL.

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Old
08-06-2004, 02:26 PM
  #13
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nyr needs lw's and centre he hasnt signed any it looks to me that he will have a ton of young guys up this year, and with wiseman nhl ready and a natural lw i believe, there is no reason he shouldnt get second line icetime as a lw'er im sure everyone would agree. the kid is nhl ready get him upour prospects will never grow if they are not called up. and in all honesty i think wiseman will turn out to be a solid second line winger, look at cheechoo witha great 20 goal plus season, i think wiseman will have a similar season.just my opinion

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08-06-2004, 02:27 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkrangers
Its not like those guys are great prospects.

Its doubtful any of them ever make an impact in the NHL.
I wouldn't discount Liffiton and Potter, stay at home/ 2-way defenseman don't have to put up 50 pts a season to make an impact.

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Old
08-06-2004, 08:26 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Then what is your explanation of those who put up sizeable #'s in the minors, but are utter busts at the NHL level?
There's a big difference. Take Miroslav Zalesak for example. He's one of the top scorers in the AHL and puts up pretty good numbers, but that's all he does. He doesn't play any defense at all. When he played in San Jose last season, he didn't do so well and was sent back down after 1 game. Chad, on the other hand, is a very good 2-way, all-around player. Not only does he put up good numbers and plays defense, he's not afraid to check or get into scrums.

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08-06-2004, 08:28 PM
  #16
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I think it is a losing cause to argue this Pixie. Wiseman gets zero respect on this board for the most part. You would think this board would be excited about having a young, 2 way player in the AHL putting up good offensive numbers. Instead, most here get excited about Lundmark who can't do anything right at the NHL level.

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