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Parise, where might he go?

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Old
08-08-2011, 01:53 PM
  #476
Eggers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Although New Jersey will have ample cap space to secure Parise at any dollar amount, I would think that Parise would probably want to see what lies ahead for the Devils if he is going to commit to a long term contract. Both of their goaltenders are set to become unrestricted and I would think that Brodeur is on the verge of retirement at the end of the upcoming season.

They have no replacement for Brodeur (as of yet). Their blueline is considerably weak and they don't have much offensive support beyond a handful of veterans, and those veterans are also aging. This is a team that doesn't have much to work with right now and has a questionable future ahead. That is a matter of fact that is difficult to dispute.

With that said, Parise still strikes me as a loyal player, but hey, we saw what has happened in the past with players who spent their entire career with one team then departed as soon as they became unrestricted free agents. Happened to Ryan Smyth (although he was dealt at the trade deadline prior to free agency), Jay Bouwmeester, Marian Gaborik, Scott Niedermayer, Ilya Kovalchuk (also dealt at the deadline prior to hitting free agency), etc.

Unfortunately for Devils fans, they are going to have this cloud looming over their heads with Parise rumors, speculation and trade proposals until he is re-signed, traded, or hits free agency on July 1, 2012.
This is where I get an inkling you have no idea what you're talking about. The Devils have a pretty young team right now, and it could look VERY young depending on who makes the blue-line out of camp. So you're telling me you're looking at Kovalchuk in his prime, an established two-way center that gained a lot of chemistry with Kovalchuk last season, emerging (potentially) top-6 forwards in Josefson, Tedenby, and Palmieri, and an absolute wealth of defensive prospects including Adam Larsson, and that's supposed to be a cause for concern about the future? And that's not even including Parise since we don't know where he'll be signed a year from now.

Rolston is gone, White is gone, you're looking at Elias (60 points and 20 goals in the worst Devils season in 1.5 decades?), Zubrus, and Tallinder as our "aging vets." And feel free to bring up our geriatric goalies who both played lights-out in the second half last year.

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08-08-2011, 02:48 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I am not claiming that the Kings will win a cup, because all you can really ask for your team is that they be a contender over 5-7 seasons, but you can add LA to the list of teams that have blown it up.

If you stockpile picks and draft well, blowing it up can work.
The Kings haven't blown up anything. In fact, they've been trading away draft picks for roster players.

The Kings only really high draft pick was Doughty. They stank it up that season, but not becaues they had blown up anything. In fact, in the offseason before that season (2007/2008) they acquired Handzus, Nagy, Calder, Stuart, and others as UFAs. They didn't blow it up, they just sucked.

The Kings have never been a franchise that blows things up and constantly acquires new talent via trade and UFA acquisitions.

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08-08-2011, 03:47 PM
  #478
Ziggy Stardust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
This is where I get an inkling you have no idea what you're talking about. The Devils have a pretty young team right now, and it could look VERY young depending on who makes the blue-line out of camp. So you're telling me you're looking at Kovalchuk in his prime, an established two-way center that gained a lot of chemistry with Kovalchuk last season, emerging (potentially) top-6 forwards in Josefson, Tedenby, and Palmieri, and an absolute wealth of defensive prospects including Adam Larsson, and that's supposed to be a cause for concern about the future? And that's not even including Parise since we don't know where he'll be signed a year from now.

Rolston is gone, White is gone, you're looking at Elias (60 points and 20 goals in the worst Devils season in 1.5 decades?), Zubrus, and Tallinder as our "aging vets." And feel free to bring up our geriatric goalies who both played lights-out in the second half last year.
I'm sorry, but how is it that I am wrong in stating that their only vets are all aging? Elias is 35, his best years are behind him. Zubrus is on the decline statistically and at 33, he isn't getting any better. What can you show that can support what you are claiming? Are you suggesting that they have plenty of offensive support?

Their young players last season didn't exactly prove that they are ready to step in to play any critical roles as of yet. None of their young players stood out to me last season. Much was made about Vasyunov and Zharkov and Bergfors as well, where are they now? And that's great that you are confident in inconsistent goaltending from two aging veteran netminders. Let's see them keep it up for an entire season and get the Devils into the playoffs.

You offered very little to prove a point. What offensive support do the Devils beyond their top line? You are saying that they have to depend on a bunch of unproven talent. Good luck selling that to a superstar free agent.

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08-08-2011, 04:02 PM
  #479
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I think he stays. The Devs have a great team in place, and they can afford to pay him the big bucks. Might do what Kovy did, but I think he ends up staying.

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08-08-2011, 04:43 PM
  #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Their young players last season didn't exactly prove that they are ready to step in to play any critical roles as of yet. None of their young players stood out to me last season. Much was made about Vasyunov and Zharkov and Bergfors as well, where are they now?
I won't comment on any of your other points, but I wanted to address this little bit right here. I do think it's ironic that you chose those three prospects in particular. The guys you mentioned were either boom/bust prospects or guys that were never projected to be top six forwards. You conveniently forgot to mention the guys that did step in and do a great job last season.

-Vasyunov played well in his stint here and was expected to challenge for a permanent spot this season, but he chose to go back to Russia. Yeah it sucks, but he was never going to be a game breaking talent and is already getting passed over on the depth chart. He was only talked about because at the time he was drafted our prospect pool was very weak. Spilled milk.

-Zharkov is, at this point, an established NHL player. His offense sucks but he is a GREAT checking/PK forward and one of the best defensive players on the team. He's 23 years old and has played two half-seasons in the NHL, I'm not sure how that is supposed to reflect poorly on the Devils as a franchise.

-Bergfors was traded for a guy named Kovalchuk, I'm sure you've heard of him. But he hasn't been with the Devils for nearly 18 months now so I'm not sure how he's relevant.

I could say to you, a Kings fan, "What ever happened to Thomas Hickey and Lauri Tukonen?" while ignoring guys like Martinez, Simmonds, Clifford.........solid players that your franchise has been developing for a while and actually turned out to be good young players. But that would be very ignorant on my part, wouldn't it?

Mark Fayne, Nick Palmieri, Mattias Tedenby, Jacob Josefson, and Matt Taormina were ALL contributors last season. I could go through and list what each player accomplished and why it's important but it would take too much time. That's not to mention guys like Corrente (who was hurt for much of the season) and Urbom/Henrique who showed flashes of brilliance in their limited time in the NHL. And then of course you have Adam Larsson, who I won't elaborate on.

If none of our rookies stood out to you last season then I would suggest you go back and watch footage of our games from mid-January on and tell me what sticks out to you (other than the stellar play of our "two aging veteran netminders," of course). Kovalchuk carried the team offensively while our "Unproven rookies" produced regularly. With a healthy Parise and a coaching system that emphasizes puck possession and offensive pressure, our offense will be miles better.

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08-08-2011, 04:50 PM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I'm sorry, but how is it that I am wrong in stating that their only vets are all aging? Elias is 35, his best years are behind him. Zubrus is on the decline statistically and at 33, he isn't getting any better. What can you show that can support what you are claiming? Are you suggesting that they have plenty of offensive support?

Their young players last season didn't exactly prove that they are ready to step in to play any critical roles as of yet. None of their young players stood out to me last season. Much was made about Vasyunov and Zharkov and Bergfors as well, where are they now? And that's great that you are confident in inconsistent goaltending from two aging veteran netminders. Let's see them keep it up for an entire season and get the Devils into the playoffs.

You offered very little to prove a point. What offensive support do the Devils beyond their top line? You are saying that they have to depend on a bunch of unproven talent. Good luck selling that to a superstar free agent.
I agree that the kids are unproven, but to suggest that there's nothing there to build on is either a willingness to assume the worst or not knowing what you're talking about. Everyone who watched this team knows they turned it around in part because some young players - Fayne, Tedenby, Josefson and Palmieri - did more than their share, while veterans underachieved. And what do you know, all those underachievers have been shipped out.

I'm not going to jump on you for thinking Lou is gambling here with the youth - a lot of Devils fans feel this way, myself included. And I don't disagree that it's a hard sell to Parise, especially if they flame out again either before the playoffs or in the first round.

But everything this team needed to do - play uptempo with a harder forecheck, get faster, get tougher, get cheaper - they've done. Hiring De Boer and promoting from within is an experiment we have to see play out, but I certainly see it as Lou answering everyone's criticisms (including Parise's). And that's all you can do. Over-paying secondary depth in this year's market would just be repeating history.

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Old
08-08-2011, 05:06 PM
  #482
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It seems pointless speculating since every critical factor is unknown at this stage. We don't know how eager Parise is to become an UFA. We don't know what kind of money he is looking for. We don't know what restrictions Lamoriello has, if any. We don't know if Devils 2011-2012 season will have a big impact on what Parise decides to do. We don't know how Parise will react to a new head coach.

The only thing we know is that if he is a UFA July 1st every team in the league would want him playing for them. But no need to start the posturing about how attractive our respective teams are just yet.

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Old
08-08-2011, 05:13 PM
  #483
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I'm not underestimating that the Devils have promising young talent, but looking at what they have to work with this season and going forward, I'm just not sold that they have any standout talent who is going to replace the numbers of Elias in the near future.

Last season they still had Arnott and Langenbrunner eating up minutes until the late part of the season. The reason they were there is clearly due to the fact that these young players weren't prepared to carry a lot of responsibilities. Bergfors was brought up as an example of a prospect who was once highly touted as an offensive talent who would crack New Jersey's top six.

That never happened, and he's an example of what could possibly happen to any young prospect. The Kings had the same thing happen with Moller. Not that his career is written off yet, but he's not quite the player that many expected him to become. Hence the reason why you can't rely on young players to play critical roles. There are few who are capable of doing so.

The Devils do have some intriguing names in the pipeline, but who knows when they'll be ready to play critical roles or when they'll take that next step. Eventually, some of the vets I mentioned are going to be phased out. When I look at the Devils lineup now, I see some holes that need to be addressed, holes that they may force unprepared players to assume. We'll see what Lou decides to do, but he is going to have a lot of needs to address come next summer.

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Old
08-08-2011, 05:49 PM
  #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Bergfors was brought up as an example of a prospect who was once highly touted as an offensive talent who would crack New Jersey's top six.

That never happened, and he's an example of what could possibly happen to any young prospect.
But he did play some top six....27 points in 54 games in NJ then traded to ATL and finished with another 17 points in 27 games. Not ground breaking but its not terrible for a rookie that struggled for the most part in getting acclimated.

His defensive short comings made him very expendable for the Devils especially when his "value" was a part of bringing in Kovy.

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Old
08-08-2011, 08:25 PM
  #485
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We get it guys, flames are overrated and are royally ****ed, Devils are crap just yet, the kings can't produce good players(according to certain players) and Parise won't play for the Wild because Calgary has more to offer.

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