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Old
08-03-2011, 07:06 PM
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mpp9
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Leopold to the Pens for... ?

Pens fan here. Any chance Buffalo is willing to move Leopold now that you guys are pretty stacked on D. What's your D pairings look like? I'd love to have him as a #5 on the Pens.

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08-03-2011, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Pens fan here. Any chance Buffalo is willing to move Leopold now that you guys are pretty stacked on D. What's your D pairings look like? I'd love to have him as a #5 on the Pens.
Leopold for a 2nd+ Dustin Jeffrey

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08-03-2011, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
Leopold for a 2nd+ Dustin Jeffrey
Yep. Exactly what I was thinking. Pens board are pretty high on him but Letestu is the more proven 3C/4C for us depending on Staal's position.

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08-03-2011, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Pens fan here. Any chance Buffalo is willing to move Leopold now that you guys are pretty stacked on D. What's your D pairings look like? I'd love to have him as a #5 on the Pens.
The Pens had Leopold and let him walk in free agency - what makes you think they'd want him now?

Right now, most Sabres fans are in agreement that Leopold will be in the top 4 and probably paired with Ehrhoff to start. If you envision him as the 5th guy on the Pittsburgh defense, that would make him more valuable to Buffalo than to Pittsburgh....so why would they trade him?


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08-03-2011, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
Leopold for a 2nd+ Dustin Jeffrey
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Yep. Exactly what I was thinking. Pens board are pretty high on him but Letestu is the more proven 3C/4C for us depending on Staal's position.
I don't think that works for Pittsburgh's cap. According to Capgeek, the Pens have approximately $1.563m in cap space. In the above deal, Pittsburgh takes on about $2.4m in cap space. The Pens would probably have to include Niskanen to make it work.

Jeffrey
Niskanen

for

Leopold

Pittsburgh adds about $900k in that deal. Not sure I'd do it from Buffalo's perspective, but I'd think hard. But I also believe Sekera is a better defensive player than Leopold, and I think Niskanen/Gragnani can handle third-pairing duties with Weber. I'm a big fan of Jeffrey, though.

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08-03-2011, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
The Pens had Leopold and let him walk in free agency - what makes you think they'd want him now?

Right now, most Sabres fans are in agreement that Leopold will be in the top 4 and probably paired with Ehrhoff to start. If you envision him as the 5th guy on the Pittsburgh defense, that would make him more valuable to Buffalo than to Pittsburgh....so why would they trade him?

We let him walk bc we were up against the cap and Shero was pushing hard for Hamhuis and ended up with Martin/Michalek. The pens top 4 is set but we have a huge dropoff in NHL D-men. We lack a reliable #5 that can step into a top 4 role when injuries hit.

If you read my post I asked what do your D pairings look like. I was assuming Regehr, Ehrhoff, Myers and Sekera made up your top 4. With your depth at D, Leopold could possibly be expendable and get you a bottom six center in the process. Center is your team's weakness if i'm not mistaken.

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08-03-2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I don't think that works for Pittsburgh's cap. According to Capgeek, the Pens have approximately $1.563m in cap space. In the above deal, Pittsburgh takes on about $2.4m in cap space. The Pens would probably have to include Niskanen to make it work.

Jeffrey
Niskanen

for

Leopold

Pittsburgh adds about $900k in that deal. Not sure I'd do it from Buffalo's perspective, but I'd think hard. But I also believe Sekera is a better defensive player than Leopold, and I think Niskanen/Gragnani can handle third-pairing duties with Weber. I'm a big fan of Jeffrey, though.
Is it wrong that I'd rather play Morrisonn than Niskanen?
I'd think about Jeffrey+Niskanen+2nd, just not a fan of Niskanen.

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08-03-2011, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
We let him walk bc we were up against the cap and Shero was pushing hard for Hamhuis and ended up with Martin/Michalek. The pens top 4 is set but we have a huge dropoff in NHL D-men. We lack a reliable #5 that can step into a top 4 role when injuries hit.

If you read my post I asked what do your D pairings look like. I was assuming Regehr, Ehrhoff, Myers and Sekera made up your top 4. With your depth at D, Leopold could possibly be expendable and get you a bottom six center in the process. Center is your team's weakness if i'm not mistaken.


This poster gets it, knowing a teams weakness before trying to make a proposal.

Yes center is our Achilles heel , and I would really like Jeffrey to center the 3rd line so Hecht can return to the wing

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08-03-2011, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I don't think that works for Pittsburgh's cap. According to Capgeek, the Pens have approximately $1.563m in cap space. In the above deal, Pittsburgh takes on about $2.4m in cap space. The Pens would probably have to include Niskanen to make it work.

Jeffrey
Niskanen

for

Leopold

Pittsburgh adds about $900k in that deal. Not sure I'd do it from Buffalo's perspective, but I'd think hard. But I also believe Sekera is a better defensive player than Leopold, and I think Niskanen/Gragnani can handle third-pairing duties with Weber. I'm a big fan of Jeffrey, though.
Sabres kind of would have to do that deal, wouldn't they?

Jeffrey could center Hecht and Boyes, Gerbe could go back to baby-eating with Goose and Kaleta/Cody and it just overall improves our C depth.

Niskanen and Grags should be able to pair nicely with Weber for 3rd pairing duties.


Yeah, I think that deal would be a good benefit for the Sabres.

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08-03-2011, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
The Pens had Leopold and let him walk in free agency - what makes you think they'd want him now?

Right now, most Sabres fans are in agreement that Leopold will be in the top 4 and probably paired with Ehrhoff to start. If you envision him as the 5th guy on the Pittsburgh defense, that would make him more valuable to Buffalo than to Pittsburgh....so why would they trade him?

I don't think that reasoning would necessarily be important. First it's a rather small difference. Second, we don't really know if the Sabres see him as being in the top 4, even though he'll likely get his shot there and led the team in ice team last season. I guess my main thought is that considering Buffalo's organizational depth there, it could put a dent in that projected difference. Also, Buffalo could value they proposed return higher than Pittsburgh might, with the proposal of Jeffries fitting into that reasoning fairly well.

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08-03-2011, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Sabres kind of would have to do that deal, wouldn't they?

Jeffrey could center Hecht and Boyes, Gerbe could go back to baby-eating with Goose and Kaleta/Cody and it just overall improves our C depth.

Niskanen and Grags should be able to pair nicely with Weber for 3rd pairing duties.


Yeah, I think that deal would be a good benefit for the Sabres.
Jeffrey had season ending knee surgery and Niskanen could end up being the #8 d-man. It's not all that cut and dried.

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08-03-2011, 09:01 PM
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I'd bet the house that Shero goes after a #5 D-man by trade deadline. Just wondering if this could be a possibility. Potential issue for us would be Sid/Staal's contract extensions and not wanting to add a 3 million dollar contract onto the cap for 2012-2013.

But valuewise, I'd do Jeffrey/Letestu+Nisky+pick any day of the week for Leopold. Guy plays a simple defensive game and adds a bit of scoring depth on the backend which we could use as martin/michalek are not offensive dynamos.

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08-03-2011, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mgn View Post
Jeffrey had season ending knee surgery and Niskanen could end up being the #8 d-man. It's not all that cut and dried.
You'd obviously have to wait until after the preseason to see how his knee is. The kid seems like a diamond in the rough but unfortunately won't get the chance at 3C imo. He's worked very hard the past year on his skating so it'll be interesting how he comes off injury.

Niskanen has a very high upside. Former 1st rounder who needed a change of scenary. Keep him sheltered as a #6 with a solid #5 and he'll do fine. Plus he's a rfa next year. So if you like how he's progressing, you could probably sign him to a steal with the downward trend in his play in Dallas.

Pittsburgh only gets rid of him bc of cap issues. I'd actually be in favor of seeing what we have in him, which is what I think Shero will do and see what's what at the deadline.

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08-03-2011, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
You'd obviously have to wait until after the preseason to see how his knee is. The kid seems like a diamond in the rough but unfortunately won't get the chance at 3C imo. He's worked very hard the past year on his skating so it'll be interesting how he comes off injury.

Niskanen has a very high upside. Former 1st rounder who needed a change of scenary. Keep him sheltered as a #6 with a solid #5 and he'll do fine. Plus he's a rfa next year. So if you like how he's progressing, you could probably sign him to a steal with the downward trend in his play in Dallas.

Pittsburgh only gets rid of him bc of cap issues. I'd actually be in favor of seeing what we have in him, which is what I think Shero will do and see what's what at the deadline.
I've visited the Pens board/playoffs board enough to get a rough picture of Niskanen's progress. To top off the reactions of Stars fans when they got rid of him and I watched a couple of playoffs games. If the bottom pairing of Engelland/Lovejoy/Niskanen had done such a good job, I doubt I would've seen so many Pens fans claim they need a better bottom-pairing. At this point it's mostly upside with Niskanen and the Sabres have enough d-man prospects on their own that have decent upside.

I'd rather have Morrisonn, atleast that guy is only a season removed from being a solid bottom 4 defender.

Which would make Niskanen the #8 d-man in my books. And I don't see any value acquiring him to be the #8 guy for that salary.

Sorry for thinking so lowly of him, I can't help it, the guy got traded because he needed a change of scenery and I don't see much that would convince me that he really has turned the corner.

I really like Jeffrey though, and with a decent pre-season I'm gonna scale back the concerns about his knee.


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08-03-2011, 10:09 PM
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Pens fan here. Any chance Buffalo is willing to move Leopold now that you guys are pretty stacked on D. What's your D pairings look like? I'd love to have him as a #5 on the Pens.
Nah, he really flourished in Ruff's system, I wouldn't trade him. I have him as #5 on our depth chart too, and I expect that he will see more PP and less PK this season.

Who knows what the pairings will look like, but this is what I want to see:

Regher-Myers
Sekera-Erhoff
Leopold-Weber

PP
Myers-Erhoff
Sekera-Leopold

PK
Regher-Weber
Sekera-Myers

Somethign like that.

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08-04-2011, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Pens fan here. Any chance Buffalo is willing to move Leopold now that you guys are pretty stacked on D. What's your D pairings look like? I'd love to have him as a #5 on the Pens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Nah, he really flourished in Ruff's system, I wouldn't trade him. I have him as #5 on our depth chart too, and I expect that he will see more PP and less PK this season.

Who knows what the pairings will look like, but this is what I want to see:

Regher-Myers
Sekera-Erhoff
Leopold-Weber

PP
Myers-Erhoff
Sekera-Leopold

PK
Regher-Weber
Sekera-Myers

Somethign like that.
If it meant getting a legit natural NHL centre like Jeffrey, I would do it. Due to our depth at defense we would survive without him... up the middle is where the Sabres need help - the back end is pretty set.

1. Regher-Myers
2. Sekera-Erhoff
3. Gragnani-Weber
X. Morrisonn, Scheistel, Brennan, Persson, McNabb, Biega

PP
Myers-Erhoff
Sekera-Gragnani

PK
Regher-Weber
Sekera-Myers

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08-04-2011, 08:07 AM
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It's possible that if Gragnani/Sekera/Weber all perform at highest expectation level that Leopold becomes superfluous by the deadline. Someone would have to displace him on the PP and PK. It may be something to revisit later, but right now, it seems Regier has built from the blueline out and Leo is going to be a big part of that.

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08-04-2011, 09:23 AM
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It's possible that if Gragnani/Sekera/Weber all perform at highest expectation level that Leopold becomes superfluous by the deadline. Someone would have to displace him on the PP and PK. It may be something to revisit later, but right now, it seems Regier has built from the blueline out and Leo is going to be a big part of that.
I have a foreboding feeling that Leopold is going to be one of the guys who disappoints this year, so I wouldn't mind selling him to get a player I believe in like Jeffrey (plus), and to bank more cap space for the deadline. Every year there are a few players who don't meet expectations, and a few who exceed them. I worry that Leopold will be in the former group. Just look at his splits last season and you'll see his first two months really drove his production:

Pre-December 1: 7 G, 9 A, 16 pts, +5 in 25 games
Post-December 1: 6 G, 13 A, 19 pts, -16 in 46 games

Leo had 5 G, 6 A, 11 pts on the PP last year, too, and one has to wonder how much PP time there will be for him. Ehrhoff and Myers will see a good chunk of minutes on the PP, as will Gragnani when he's in the lineup. And with Roy, Vanek, Stafford, Leino, Ennis, and Boyes all likely to see time up front on the PP, I think we could see Pommer on one of the points--or Roy could be on the point and Pommer up front. In other words, I don't see Leo getting the PP time he got last year, and I think the offensive numbers will go down as a result. And I've never loved his play in his own zone.

Still, I don't think Buffalo moves him, at least not this season. Regier keeps reminding everyone that you need defensive depth in the playoffs--we've learned that in the Carolina series and Philly series--and I don't see them moving a guy who can eat minutes like Leopold.

I would love to get Jeffrey, though.

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08-04-2011, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post


This poster gets it, knowing a teams weakness before trying to make a proposal.
+1. If Martin has been as disappointing as what I recall hearing from Pens fans and they believe Leopold can slot in for him in the top-4, maybe they do make Jeffrey available. That would be a very feasible framework of a deal if the dollars are equalized.

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08-04-2011, 02:14 PM
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This poster gets it, knowing a teams weakness before trying to make a proposal.

What that poster and many Sabres posters keep missing or not understanding is this. Regier and Ruff have REPEATEDLY talked about rebuilding the defense and their concerns about the defense. Regeir has repeatedly talked about the need for a deep and strong defense corp. Knowing/understanding that would help a poster realize how unlikely a trade like this would be from the Sabres pov.

This board is far more hung up on centers than Regeir/Ruff are. Ruff has mention a few times about building a shutdown pairing again. Why? Because thats what Ruff uses to match up with the other team's top lines. Its been his #1 defensive tool post lockout. Yet we still have posters ignoring this and clamoring for a shutdown center for the shutdown 3rd line line we don't have.

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08-04-2011, 03:00 PM
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Fair enough. Just thought you guys have the deepest blueline in the East now and could use that strength to fill a weakness. I'm not saying you need a shutdown center, but it certainly isn't going to hurt the organization to bring in a young guy like Jeffrey. I see Leopold as being more valuable to the Pens just as a solid bottom six center would be to the Sabres. Not a necessity, but certainly helps your Cup chances.

Again, the Pens need a #5 D-man who's capable of top 4 minutes. That's a fact. If Sabres management would be willing to deal Leopold, I could see Shero pondering what we'd need to do to make room for him next year.

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08-04-2011, 03:10 PM
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Leopold's connections with Vanek/Regehr are keeping him here until his play dictates otherwise.

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08-04-2011, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
What that poster and many Sabres posters keep missing or not understanding is this. Regier and Ruff have REPEATEDLY talked about rebuilding the defense and their concerns about the defense. Regeir has repeatedly talked about the need for a deep and strong defense corp. Knowing/understanding that would help a poster realize how unlikely a trade like this would be from the Sabres pov.
So, do you roll with Hecht at center and Leopold giving marginally better minutes than Grags in almost an identical #5/PP guy role, or do you feel the improvement at center (and wing by moving Hecht back there) offsets losing a "veteran" d-man (despite having added two proven veterans in Regehr and Ehrhoff).

Will DR feel that the return for Leo offsets the difference between Leopold/Grags and Grags/someone else at the bottom of the corps? If Jeffrey is all the way back, I can't imagine an argument that a roster with Jeffrey/Hecht-on-wing and Grags/Niskanen at #5/#7 is no stronger than with just Leopold/Grags at #5/#7.

Another thing is, the Rochester kids are starting to push up. Gragnani at the end of last year, and I'd expect one of Brennan/Schiestel/(maybe Persson??) to have showed something at the top level by the trade deadline. It's almost a matter of probability that it will happen with somebody.


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08-04-2011, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
What that poster and many Sabres posters keep missing or not understanding is this. Regier and Ruff have REPEATEDLY talked about rebuilding the defense and their concerns about the defense. Regeir has repeatedly talked about the need for a deep and strong defense corp. Knowing/understanding that would help a poster realize how unlikely a trade like this would be from the Sabres pov.

This board is far more hung up on centers than Regeir/Ruff are. Ruff has mention a few times about building a shutdown pairing again. Why? Because thats what Ruff uses to match up with the other team's top lines. Its been his #1 defensive tool post lockout. Yet we still have posters ignoring this and clamoring for a shutdown center for the shutdown 3rd line line we don't have.
Why you continue to go out of your way to downplay our need for center depth is beyond me. It's not just about getting a 3rd line center - it's about getting A center. A natural one. If it means giving up Leopold to do so, so be it.

You're spot on about Ruff using his dmen for matchups. But that's a more recent thing, most likely attributed to our lack of forwards (centers) who can play that game. I am confident that Ruff would match said forward with opposing top lines if he had that guy. He doesn't right now.

Also. I see zero chance that Leo is here beyond the current deal he's on. I have no problem dealing him.

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08-04-2011, 04:41 PM
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Why you continue to go out of your way to downplay our need for center depth is beyond me. It's not just about getting a 3rd line center - it's about getting A center. A natural one. If it means giving up Leopold to do so, so be it.

You're spot on about Ruff using his dmen for matchups. But that's a more recent thing, most likely attributed to our lack of forwards (centers) who can play that game. I am confident that Ruff would match said forward with opposing top lines if he had that guy. He doesn't right now.

Also. I see zero chance that Leo is here beyond the current deal he's on. I have no problem dealing him.
Sorry but centers or not, we have 13 F and 7 D available for routine duty this year. We aren't in a position to be dealing roster Dmen.

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