Uhhhh Jason Pominville. Ryan Miller was also injured for the first half of the season,
Pominville played 73 games + 5 playoffs games (out of 7 was it?)..
Miller played 66 games, as opposed to 69 the previous year.
Ya, they really missed a ton of action!
I mean, they certainly compare to Markov's 7 games played!...
I didn't mention Cammy, MaxPac, Spacek, etc...but those are not the injuries I was discussing. Like I said Roy is the only comparable.
He looks like the 7th D-man going into the season which per typical years would put him in about 50 games. He has come far regarding play in his own zone, but he's still a puckmover first and foremost. He'll see some time on the PP when he's in the lineup and he may work double duty as their 13th forward depending on what contracts they move off (Morrisonn and Kotalik likely going to the minors doesn't leave them a ton of space). I expect him back at around $600-650K per as he's still not signed (the only member of the the year-end squad who they looked to retain who is not).
Thanks, and how high are expectations for Tyler Ennis this year? He's definitely one of my favourite players on your team.
As a Sabres fan just wondering if you Habs fans think it's going to be a Habs-Bruins division rivalry this year as I don't believe that at all.
Ultimately I see the Bruins suffering a MINOR hangover with us winning the division, the Habs coming in 3rd but througout the year I see it being a 3 team race. The Leafs may sneak there head in from time and time again but not very often.
Are you looking for some security or something? You honestly come off arrogant about your team without realizing that nothing is guaranteed. The leafs have been yapping about their team for the last five years and look where they have finished
Unless you have a crystal ball or almanac from m j fox, I would slow your roll on Sabres placement in the standings because the confidence/ borderline arrogance you are showing makes you an easy target when things fall apart and will give other Sabres fans a bad wrap. Yes, they got some good complimentary parts that will make you compete every game but seriously who knows if they will mesh without playing a game?
On a personal note, I honestly think the habs will be taking the division. This is based on chemistry and spefic holes being covered in the team from last year. Seems hypocritical maybe, but my assumption has a higher probability based on past results.
Seems like a peculiar thread. Guy asks for opinions, gets a lot of respect from Hab fans directed at the Sabres, then proceeds to make an outlandish claim. A guarantee that the Sabres finish better. What does a guarantee even mean? Is it voided if Miller winds up injured for the year? Really, what's the point?
Anyway, I'll echo what's been said throughout the thread: the Sabres, Habs and Bruins seem to be at roughly the same level that injuries and a variety of minor factors will play a part. All three teams are solid. All should be vying for a playoff spot, and all have an outside chance of missing the playoffs.
I like Buffalo's forward group. To me, Vanek's emerged. I'm a big fan. I like Roy, and he's matured. I'm less enthused by Boyes and Leino, but they've got depth, so they'll fill in hopefully. Hecht, Gaustad, Gerbe are fun depth players and help make one of the better third lines in the league. I think Regehr will be better in Buffalo than he's been the past few seasons.
As with others, not a fan of the Ehrhoff/Leino terms, but I like both players. I think both will help the Sabres' puck possession game and Ehrhoff will be instrumental in the Sabres' transition game.
For the record, that guy doesn't represent every Sabres fan. Most of the opinions I've read in this thread have been pretty fair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SB164
Thanks, and how high are expectations for Tyler Ennis this year? He's definitely one of my favourite players on your team.
I'd say a progression in his overall game (less turnovers, improved defense, etc.) and about 60points would make it a very successful season in my opinion. They're not relying on him scoring though, he'll likely start the year on the second line with Stafford as the other winger. They've developed some pretty good chemistry.
My favorite of the three is definitely Lindy and as far as I can remember the Sabres have always been a darkhorse team against us that used to steal games against us. I still remember as a kid the Sabres winning a game 4-3 against us where the goal happened with like 0.05 sec left on the clock! (Back then they had that black and white box with the time on it and it was at 0.1 turning to 0.0 when the puck crossed over)
I remember throwing a chair across the basement when the Sabres took us out in what, 74? They drove me nuts. Great team from the get go. Perrault, Martin, Robert. Geez.
Perrault was a monster, and Martin's wrister was a fukcing laser.
I like the Sabres too, always have. Never dirty, always pretty good.
I think we can take them this year, but Miller worries me.
Sabres, with Miller in goal, have the best D corpse in the conference. Their top six is slightly above average, and their bottom six is, to me, way above average. And their coach is one of the best.
Given the Bruins probable hangover, even if not for too long, I think the Sabres should be good to win the division (so top 3 in conf.), with the Bruins good for the 4th of 5th spot in the conference if they don't have too much injuries. The Habs, as always, wille fight for anywhere from 6th to 10th spot depending on all what is happening in a season.
Of course, as most of us pointede out, the injuries may destroy any predictions. But every team will have his "fare" share of injuries anyway.
I think Habs fans (I'm one) are putting too much into Markov and Gorges comeback. Markov had major injuries in 2 seasons that should have been his prime years. I think he will be good, but I think he's starting to be on the downside of his prime. Gorges, to me, is nothing more than a bonafide 5-6th d-man, which doesn't change a team completly.
Cole-Gomez-Gionta are still good players, but they're also on the wrong side of their prime.
In my opinion, the Habs' bottom 6 is below avegage in the conference. Only Plek, Camy and Kosty are in their prime, which is not enough to compete for more than the 8th spot.
So Habs' success depend on the contribution of the up-coming youngsters Subban-Price-Eller-Desharnais-Pacciorety. It is a good group and they may surprise by leading the Habs to the 4th-6th spot, but I have hard time seeing all of them succeeding at the same time, without a down year or injuries.
So I put Habs between 6th and 10th spot. But it is just an opinion.
Sabres, with Miller in goal, have the best D corpse in the conference. Their top six is slightly above average, and their bottom six is, to me, way above average. And their coach is one of the best.
Given the Bruins probable hangover, even if not for too long, I think the Sabres should be good to win the division (so top 3 in conf.), with the Bruins good for the 4th of 5th spot in the conference if they don't have too much injuries. The Habs, as always, wille fight for anywhere from 6th to 10th spot depending on all what is happening in a season.
Of course, as most of us pointede out, the injuries may destroy any predictions. But every team will have his "fare" share of injuries anyway.
I think Habs fans (I'm one) are putting too much into Markov and Gorges comeback. Markov had major injuries in 2 seasons that should have been his prime years. I think he will be good, but I think he's starting to be on the downside of his prime. Gorges, to me, is nothing more than a bonafide 5-6th d-man, which doesn't change a team completly.
Cole-Gomez-Gionta are still good players, but they're also on the wrong side of their prime.
In my opinion, the Habs' bottom 6 is below avegage in the conference. Only Plek, Camy and Kosty are in their prime, which is not enough to compete for more than the 8th spot.
So Habs' success depend on the contribution of the up-coming youngsters Subban-Price-Eller-Desharnais-Pacciorety. It is a good group and they may surprise by leading the Habs to the 4th-6th spot, but I have hard time seeing all of them succeeding at the same time, without a down year or injuries.
So I put Habs between 6th and 10th spot. But it is just an opinion.
So many things wrong with your post. Gomer and Gionta on the wrong side? They're 32 and under not 36 ffs! Cole in his final year will be a little old for his style of play, but by that time, we'll have rookies ready to step in. Right now we're good. Right now, we have a good balance of veterans, prime players and greenhorns. And for the future, defense will get even younger in the next couple of seasons.
And our bottom 6 is not below average. Even if we don't sign a single player, it looks solid. That 3rd line has lots of scoring potential and the 4th line with White and Moen alongside Engqvist/whatever will be defensively responsible and White alone gives it a mean streak. The only weakness I can see is faceoffs.
Sabres, with Miller in goal, have the best D corpse in the conference.
I take Montreal's corps well before Buffalo's. Montreal's my pick for best D corps in the conference actually. The ability to ice two genuine #1 D-men is huge.
Pominville played 73 games + 5 playoffs games (out of 7 was it?)..
Miller played 66 games, as opposed to 69 the previous year.
Ya, they really missed a ton of action!
I mean, they certainly compare to Markov's 7 games played!...
I didn't mention Cammy, MaxPac, Spacek, etc...but those are not the injuries I was discussing. Like I said Roy is the only comparable.
Buffalo seems like a team that doesn't really scare you on paper, or even on the ice, but if you were to see them in the cup finals it wouldn't be a shock.
I take Montreal's corps well before Buffalo's. Montreal's my pick for best D corps in the conference actually. The ability to ice two genuine #1 D-men is huge.
Yes
Not many teams would lose their top 2 d-men for the season by november, and manage to finish 6th place.
That is my biggest reason for optimism, never mind the other long term injuries to key players up front.
It tells me that if by small chance, the injury bug takes key players out for the season again (and early), that the management has the wherewithal to address the issue by promoting within (subban) or finding plugs elsewhere (wisniewski). Afterall, the habs have about 5 mil of cap space to work with if needed.
Just by the law of averages, you would assume that the key injuries wont stack up so badly next year, but its also nice to know that the team has the ability to fight through it instead of folding their tents.
I take Montreal's corps well before Buffalo's. Montreal's my pick for best D corps in the conference actually. The ability to ice two genuine #1 D-men is huge.
wow, really?
I'd love to hear the rational behind that...
I can almost buy the case that we have potentially the best "top-2" in the conference, b/c I'm convinced Subban will continue to improve (as opposed to suffering the all to common "sophmore slump"... then again, I thought after his first playoffs that he would be on a straight path to stardom, only to see him benched for 3 games a few months later...), and b/c I'd like to remain optimistic about Marko both staying healthy AND returning to his former level.
but after that? Gorges, whom I definitely consider a "good" top 4 dman, but who is also returning from major knee surgery...
and that's only 3... Gill, for now, rounds out the top-4, easily one of the worst top-4 dmen in the conference (at least for playoff contenders), despite his unique PK skills.
and who do you have pencilled in for the bottom pairing? at this point it's fair to say that it's not clear, isn't it?
Spacek?
Weber?
Emelin?
Diaz?
another UFA to be signed?
meanwhile several teams have a very clear top-6 set, even top-7, and many of them aren't relying on unknowns or veterans on a sharp decline.
I don't know MM, i think perhaps the kool-aid is a bit strong right now
it's pretty clear that several teams in the conference have better, even much better, bottom 3-4 dmen than we have... Are Markov/Subban THAT good as to erase that? an optimistic stretch, but hey, I definitely hope that this season proves you right!!!
to keep it relevant to the thread... Buffalo actually makes a great team to measure up against.
i'd argue strongly that our top-2 (Markov-Subban) is better than their top-2 (Erhoff-Myers)...
but after that? the sabres bottom 4-5 looks to be quite a bit stronger I'd say:
Gorges < Regher (though I have argued that I see Gorges as a "younger, late-blooming" Regher)
Gill << Leopold (Leopold is better in every part of the game, and will only be better now that he's not expected to be a top-pairing player)
Spacek < Sekera
Emelin/Weber <= Morisson/Weber
Sabres depth is definitely better, Habs top-end is arguably better... when it comes down to it, every playoffs we see that teams rely heavily on defensive depth... i'd have to give the edge to the Sabres D-corp right now, even if I wouldn't trade ours for theirs straight up thanks to P.K
You can use capgeek to look at their current roster.
Huge thanks to both of you for the site (didn't know about the site).
And...about Sabres:
They may be back to being one of the stronger teams in the Eastern Conference, imo!! I like their roster...especially their TOP 4 DMEN (Regehr, Erhoff, Myers, Leopold). Like our Habs...it will all depend on the health of the key players... I like my Habs top 4 (well...I believe we need to add one more tough dman...top 4 or top 6 dman as long as he has some experience).
Sabres and Habs: if everyone on both teams stays healthy (top 4 dmen, top 9 forwards, #1 goalies,etc...) we may see these two teams meeting each other in Conference Semi-Finals or Finals!!
1. Mtl / Bos /Buff
2. Bos / Mtl /Buff
3.Buff / Mtl / Bos
4. Ottawa (Anderson may end up being their MVP)
5. Leafs
p.s.: sorry to mods...having problems getting multi quotes...
Last edited by Mr. Hab: 08-07-2011 at 08:38 AM.
Reason: merge
Superior top-2 and excellent depth. Two #1s, Gorges who is a #3, Gill or Spacek can hold the fort as the #4 until Yemelin develops in the role. Between one of those three and Weber, you can have an excellent third pairing that would serve as a decent second pairing on may teams. Spacek is especially underrated, IMO; despite being much-maligned, the guy was effective in the first pairing early last season and can easily drive a third pairing, or sub in as a #4, at least.
This is one of the best units in the conference both at the top end and in depth. It's bizarre to me that Habs fans can't see it, seeing as it's the key strength of their team. Familiarity breeds contempt, I guess (see: Spacek, Jaroslav). I think also that Habs fans have a tendancy to overestimate the amount of talent in the league.
That, and a lack of understanding of what makes a good D-man good: identifying sheltered-minutes offensive D-man Erhoff as the Sabres' #2, ahead of tough-matchup minute-muncher Regehr, is an example of that. The ability to play difficult opposition effectively is what makes a good D-man good, but the stats for it aren't widely accepted so people go by reputation.
Superior top-2 and excellent depth. Two #1s, Gorges who is a #3, Gill or Spacek can hold the fort as the #4 until Yemelin develops in the role. Between one of those three and Weber, you can have an excellent third pairing that would serve as a decent second pairing on may teams. Spacek is especially underrated, IMO; despite being much-maligned, the guy was effective in the first pairing early last season and can easily drive a third pairing, or sub in as a #4, at least.
This is one of the best units in the conference both at the top end and in depth. It's bizarre to me that Habs fans can't see it, seeing as it's the key strength of their team. Familiarity breeds contempt, I guess (see: Spacek, Jaroslav). I think also that Habs fans have a tendancy to overestimate the amount of talent in the league.
That, and a lack of understanding of what makes a good D-man good: identifying sheltered-minutes offensive D-man Erhoff as the Sabres' #2, ahead of tough-matchup minute-muncher Regehr, is an example of that. The ability to play difficult opposition effectively is what makes a good D-man good, but the stats for it aren't widely accepted so people go by reputation.
you frequently make that same comment about Erhoff...
From watching both play regularly last season (and the past few seasons) I'd say almost without question that Erhoff is more effective overall. Regher is still a very good player, but he was never a good skater and the wear/tear of the way he plays (and how much he's played the past decade) seems to be catching up to him... he labors at times though and relies heavily on being paired with a mobile dman to "hide" some of his mobility issues (not unlike Gill, albeit not nearly as much).
you won't find a stat package to illustrate that about regher, just like you won't find a stat package illustrating just how much Subban bolstered Gill's "effectiveness" in the playoffs.
and as for "sheltered minutes"... the guy played 23min/game for the top team in the league (regular season). Are you really trying to argue that the nucks "hid" him, while playing him more minutes than anyone else on the team? Come on now...
Erhoff may not be an elite #1 dman, but labelling him as a "sheltered minute offensive dman" ignores both common sense, observation AND stats (unless you think teams regularly play their worst/weaker players in defensive zone faceoffs...)
as for Spacek, we clearly see different things... I think one could make a fairly strong case that in the playoffs, Sopel was as, if not more, effective than Spacek. Spacek was recovering from injury (surprise surprise, 37year old with marginal work out habits struggling with injuries/diminished play ... bet we can't expect more of the same this year), but Sopel is now plying his trade in the KHL... if Spacek was not under contract, I highly doubt he'd be back, and wouldn't be surprised in the least if he ended up in Europe b/c no team was willing to give him more than a 6-7 spot @ <1M... you
as a "fan", I'm certainly optimistic that one or both of Emelin/Weber will develop in a big way this year and forcibly insert themselves into the 4-5 spots on our team. frankly, if both can play to the height of their potential (at this age), then I'd be far more inclined to rank our d among the conference's best... but several teams have much more reliable/certain options in their bottom-3.
Gill & Spacek represent bottom of the conference quality players when talking about top-4 dmen, and probably at least bottom 1/2 when talking about top-5.
there is a difference between optimistic homerism and realistic assesment... and yes, one can skew stats to prove either case.
As a fan, I hope your right,
but if your best case for the habs having the top d in the conference involves holding up Spacek as a symbol of our great depth, I hope you keep those type of statements on our board... habs fans get a bad rap on the main board for homer comments like that, and for good reason i suppose.
Not many teams would lose their top 2 d-men for the season by november, and manage to finish 6th place.
That is my biggest reason for optimism, never mind the other long term injuries to key players up front.
It tells me that if by small chance, the injury bug takes key players out for the season again (and early), that the management has the wherewithal to address the issue by promoting within (subban) or finding plugs elsewhere (wisniewski). Afterall, the habs have about 5 mil of cap space to work with if needed.
Just by the law of averages, you would assume that the key injuries wont stack up so badly next year, but its also nice to know that the team has the ability to fight through it instead of folding their tents.
Keep in mind, Montreal has never done this either, if Gorges is your 2nd best dman your team is in serious, serious trouble.
So many things wrong with your post. Gomer and Gionta on the wrong side? They're 32 and under not 36 ffs! Cole in his final year will be a little old for his style of play, but by that time, we'll have rookies ready to step in. Right now we're good. Right now, we have a good balance of veterans, prime players and greenhorns. And for the future, defense will get even younger in the next couple of seasons.
And our bottom 6 is not below average. Even if we don't sign a single player, it looks solid. That 3rd line has lots of scoring potential and the 4th line with White and Moen alongside Engqvist/whatever will be defensively responsible and White alone gives it a mean streak. The only weakness I can see is faceoffs.
I'm not sure how many more "wrongs" I have in my post. But it is all a matter of opinion anyway.
To me, being 32 is being on the wrong side of your prime, like it or not. Maybe not dramatically, but certainly enough to not being a favorite for a top 3 spot in the conference.
Cole is allready old for his style of play. That's why he is not physical anymore.
Habs bottom six is not below average? Well, Habs fourth line is one of the worst in the conference. There is no way it can compare to Gaustad-Kaleta and whoever-they-put-with-them. And I think Habs fan are overrating Habs' third line. Good talent for sure, but nothing has been shown yet. It is still suspect at best.
Like I said in my post, the good group of young players the Habs have may lead the team pretty good and may cause surprises. But I simply don't believe they will all have a good year at the same time.
Cole is allready old for his style of play. That's why he is not physical anymore.
His style of play is scoring goals and hitting, correct?
Last season;
He finished with 26 goals, 22 of those coming at even strength. (3 PP, 1 SH)
He finished at 4th in the league with 9 game winning goals.
He finished with 225 hits.
Exactly how do you get to your conclusion?
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"CS is one of my favorite people on this entire site." - ColePens
), but Sopel is now plying his trade in the KHL... if Spacek was not under contract, I highly doubt he'd be back, and wouldn't be surprised in the least if he ended up in Europe b/c no team was willing to give him more than a 6-7 spot @ <1M... you
