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Which U.S. born defender will be the best?

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:13 PM
  #76
Hero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Blum
McDonagh
Carlson
Bogosian
Leddy
...?


Carlson is easily the best, McDonagh easily worst of that 5, right now.

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Old
08-08-2011, 11:18 PM
  #77
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how is McDonagh the worst? As a ROOKIE he was playing 2nd line minutes, shutting down top offensive players in the game #figureitout bro

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Old
08-09-2011, 09:40 PM
  #78
Blunt About Habs
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no love for cam fowler?

still carlson though

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Old
08-09-2011, 09:47 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by nils2317 View Post
Did you read the rest of my post? Or the guy two posts before me. There is a reason it's called DEFENSEman
Yeah I did. I was throwing you a bone with "probably be the best defender", but either way I see him topping out as a #4. The rest of the guys I believe have higher ceilings which is why I ranked him where I did.

Did you read my post? Who should he beat out and why? Not simply looking at it from your team's perspective and complaining about where other people have him ranked.

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Old
08-09-2011, 10:06 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blunt About Habs View Post
no love for cam fowler?

still carlson though
Fowler would be a big wildcard. I would probably have him right there with Carlson, but I think in the end Carlson is just going to be a better two way dman then Fowler and have more of an overal impact for his team. Still though, Fowler is going to be special so he is ahead of Blum, Bogosian, Leddy, and McDonagh imo....not to derail the OP and his thread, but Fowler should be included here.

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08-10-2011, 04:46 AM
  #81
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I agree Fowler will be the best of the bunch.

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Old
08-10-2011, 05:41 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blunt About Habs View Post
no love for cam fowler?

still carlson though
Fowler isn't U.S. born. He was born in Windsor, but grew up in Michigan.

Though, if we're talking about young US defensemen, it seems silly to not include him. I'd have him at #1 or #2. It would come down to how his two-way game develops, because that's where Carlson has the edge right now.

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Old
08-10-2011, 08:56 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Dave Karp View Post
Yeah I did. I was throwing you a bone with "probably be the best defender", but either way I see him topping out as a #4. The rest of the guys I believe have higher ceilings which is why I ranked him where I did.

Did you read my post? Who should he beat out and why? Not simply looking at it from your team's perspective and complaining about where other people have him ranked.
Don't "throw him a bone" if you don't believe it. Saying McDonagh is going to be the best defender and then saying that there's nothing that stands out to rank him higher than the other four is, quite frankly, nonsensical. The "something" that makes him stand out is his defensive play.

I admittedly do not see enough of any of the other four defensemen besides McDonagh to rate them, so I won't attempt to make comparisons. However, I can confidently make one of two assumptions: either you do not see the Rangers (and thus McDonagh) play enough to make a judgment of him, or I hold your assessment ability of defensemen in low esteem. Ryan McDonagh, as a rookie, was already in all likelihood the third best defender on the Rangers, a playoff team that quite frankly wasn't known for scoring goals. When Staal was injured, he slotted into the first pairing and still performed admirably. His ceiling is certainly not a #4; in fact, barring a drastic regression, it is most likely his floor.

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Old
08-10-2011, 09:59 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg02 View Post
Don't "throw him a bone" if you don't believe it. Saying McDonagh is going to be the best defender and then saying that there's nothing that stands out to rank him higher than the other four is, quite frankly, nonsensical. The "something" that makes him stand out is his defensive play.

I admittedly do not see enough of any of the other four defensemen besides McDonagh to rate them, so I won't attempt to make comparisons. However, I can confidently make one of two assumptions: either you do not see the Rangers (and thus McDonagh) play enough to make a judgment of him, or I hold your assessment ability of defensemen in low esteem. Ryan McDonagh, as a rookie, was already in all likelihood the third best defender on the Rangers, a playoff team that quite frankly wasn't known for scoring goals. When Staal was injured, he slotted into the first pairing and still performed admirably. His ceiling is certainly not a #4; in fact, barring a drastic regression, it is most likely his floor.
Carlson, as a rookie, played on the shutdown pairing for the Caps, who allowed fewer goals than the Rangers (ok, one fewer goal). He averaged the 2nd most TOI on the team (behind Green/Wideman, who were never healthy and on the team at the same time, and I don't have Wideman's TOI broken out by WSH vs FLA). He played on the 2nd PP unit and 2nd SH unit.

McDonaugh averaged 4 fewer minutes/game than Carlson, with no PP time, and was on the 2nd SH unit with ~40 seconds/game less than Carlson. It looks like the Rangers had their top PK unit on the ice for longer than the Caps did, because overall minutes SH were more equivalent.

In short: Carlson, also a rookie, saw more ESTOI, more SHTOI, on a better defensive team, on the top shutdown pair for that team, and saw PP time.

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Old
08-10-2011, 02:51 PM
  #85
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Myers but on this list i'll take Carlson.

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Old
08-10-2011, 03:02 PM
  #86
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To the title: Fowler.
To your list: Carlson. Blum close 2nd.

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Old
08-10-2011, 11:05 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasStarsfan06 View Post
Who will be the best defender out of this group?

John Blum-(Playing behind Weber/Suter)
Nick Leddy-(Playing behind Keith/Seabrook)
John Carlson-(Top shutdown pair with Alzner)
Zach Bogosian-(Behind Enstrom/Big Buff)
Ryan McDonagh-(Behind Staal/Girardi)
In this order:
- Carlson
- Blum
- Bogosion
- Leddy
- McDonagh

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Old
08-11-2011, 11:57 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper View Post
Carlson, as a rookie, played on the shutdown pairing for the Caps, who allowed fewer goals than the Rangers (ok, one fewer goal). He averaged the 2nd most TOI on the team (behind Green/Wideman, who were never healthy and on the team at the same time, and I don't have Wideman's TOI broken out by WSH vs FLA). He played on the 2nd PP unit and 2nd SH unit.

McDonaugh averaged 4 fewer minutes/game than Carlson, with no PP time, and was on the 2nd SH unit with ~40 seconds/game less than Carlson. It looks like the Rangers had their top PK unit on the ice for longer than the Caps did, because overall minutes SH were more equivalent.

In short: Carlson, also a rookie, saw more ESTOI, more SHTOI, on a better defensive team, on the top shutdown pair for that team, and saw PP time.
it is very impressive what both of them did.

and correct me if I am wrong, but didnt both Carlson and McDonagh help anchor rookie d pairings? Didnt Carlson pair up with Alzner. And didnt McDonagh pair up with Sauer? I think that is the most impressive thing with both of these kids is that they held their own, earning top 4 minutes without the help of a legit #1 dman....that is something very special imo. Both kids have very promising futures, and even though McDonagh might be ranked the bottom guy on many lists, I still think the kid is going to be a stud and have a bright future ahead of him. I really like Sauer as well, that kid is awesome! Loved him since his CHL days.

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Old
08-12-2011, 12:00 AM
  #89
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Right now it looks like Carlson, simply due to what he's done at his age. Unless he stalls out early, he should end up being the best (or at least nearly tied with someone like Bogosian).

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Old
08-12-2011, 12:10 AM
  #90
Dave Karp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg02 View Post
Don't "throw him a bone" if you don't believe it. Saying McDonagh is going to be the best defender and then saying that there's nothing that stands out to rank him higher than the other four is, quite frankly, nonsensical. The "something" that makes him stand out is his defensive play.
I didn't say I didn't believe it. I'm just not as sure as I sounded. It's a point that's up for debate, and the whole reason why I said is was because it still didn't have any barring on where I ranked him. I stand by him being the worst out of the bunch. His defensive play is solid, however, if I was picking out of the 5 guys listed he'd be my last choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg02 View Post
I admittedly do not see enough of any of the other four defensemen besides McDonagh to rate them, so I won't attempt to make comparisons. However, I can confidently make one of two assumptions: either you do not see the Rangers (and thus McDonagh) play enough to make a judgment of him, or I hold your assessment ability of defensemen in low esteem. Ryan McDonagh, as a rookie, was already in all likelihood the third best defender on the Rangers, a playoff team that quite frankly wasn't known for scoring goals. When Staal was injured, he slotted into the first pairing and still performed admirably. His ceiling is certainly not a #4; in fact, barring a drastic regression, it is most likely his floor.
I don't watch them a lot no, and if you want to hold my assessment ability in low-esteem, that's fine. Heck, I even hold my assessment ability in low-esteem (I liked Sanguinetti over MDZ out of the OHL; Pietrangelo over Bogosian over Doughty).

To be quite frank with you, a #4 on the Rangers doesn't necessarily mean a #4. A number one on team X does not always equal a number one. He's a steady, solid defender. Nothing flashy, he's serviceable which is totally fine. I just don't feel that I could rank him higher than Carlson, Blum or Bogo (still feel he'll have it all come together). Leddy is a question mark but I feel his upside is higher than McDonagh's, which is why I put him where I did.

Again, for people who have strong feelings for McDonagh. Who does he displace and why? I keep stating my reasoning, where's yours?

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