All you're doing is moving the young players that the Isles do have, that are developing, and dialing back the clock to get... more young players that haven't developed yet at all. I can understand moving a player to address a need (like a defenseman, or a top 6 forward) but you suggest moving all theses pieces while bringing in nothing to help the team right now. It just seems like a perpetual cycle of draft picking. Why? I guess the idea of top 5 picks a full year before the draft makes people excited.
Besides, I don't see how anyone can claim that the lottery is the only reason the Isles are "competitive". The team has a grand total of one player picked in the top 5 that has had any sort of impact at all at the NHL level.
John Tavares. He IS the reason this team is/will be competitive. Without him the potential of this team is the Islanders of the early 2000's. One and done. Therefor, the lottery is the only reason this team is/will be competitive.
I understand that you think we are getting nothing back, which is normal around here. People tend to jump on the "futures" bashing bandwagon because that is what guys like Trottier were doing, and they wanted to side with the "cool" poster(even though I'm 99% sure Trottier was a 55 year old virgin). Or maybe it is because you don't focus on the prospect side of hockey, and know nothing about these kids. The ones who are even a full year away. That is understandable. BUT, if you did watch them(at least the ones I've listed) you would realize that at least 3 out of 4 of them are can't miss defense prospects.
If you have watched Nick Ebert at all you would know that he is probably as close to the next Drew Doughty as there is/has been since he was drafted. In fact I honestly like this kid more than Doughty at the same age, mainly because he is more physical and isn't afraid to mix it up. The fact is this team is in very good shape as is, but if they want to get to that level of Cup Contender, IMO they need to try and add that last piece to the blueline. The top-6 forwards are pretty much set. You can say "Strome hasn't proven anything" all you want, but he was drafted to be a top-6 player for this team, period. If he has another 100-point season in the OHL next year, you can bet your balls Blake Comeau will not be holding him back.
I like Comeau and Bailey, I really do, but I like Tavares, Moulson, Grabner, Okposo, Nielsen, Strome and Nino more. If we can get Alec Martinez and a shot at drafting one of Ebert or Murray for the price of Bailey, Comeau and a mid-late 1st, sign me up. Because, IMO, a franchise defenseman will be more valuable to this team than two third line players. Regardless of how well they develop, neither of them are going to be anything more than that for this team.
We will try to roll out 3 good #2 lines that provide offensive firepower.
Comeau will be the key to one of those lines.
I can not imagine Garth thinking that Nino, who has no resume at the NHL level, can replace a 25 year old Comeau who produced 24 goals last year, is on an upward trajectory that could yield 30 goals.
The only way that Comeau gets traded is for a true #3 or better defenseman.....think a young Kimmo Timonen, Kronwall, Matt Greene.
Comeau for a #4 defenseman is losing for NYI.
Some people never knew how vital lines 3 and 4 were for our Dynasty team. Some never will. I fear I'll have to hear "top-6" rationales forever. I'll stick with the best 20 guys filter I use regardless.
John Tavares. He IS the reason this team is/will be competitive. Without him the potential of this team is the Islanders of the early 2000's. One and done. Therefor, the lottery is the only reason this team is/will be competitive.
Sorry. Don't buy it. Tavares has potential to be really good, but come on. Every team that's successful has good players surrounding their stars... most of those players aren't lottery picks. Ask Columbus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360
People tend to jump on the "futures" bashing bandwagon because that is what guys like Trottier were doing, and they wanted to side with the "cool" poster(even though I'm 99% sure Trottier was a 55 year old virgin).
Or, you know, he had a valid point and other people understand that point independently of what he thought. Sorry friend... the "cool poster" thing sounds like ********* and an easy way for you to dismiss people's opinions.
Quote:
Or maybe it is because you don't focus on the prospect side of hockey, and know nothing about these kids. The ones who are even a full year away. That is understandable. BUT, if you did watch them(at least the ones I've listed) you would realize that at least 3 out of 4 of them are can't miss defense prospects.
That's fine. Every year there are nice looking prospects. Can't miss! That's really the rub, right? Every year.... Look! There's next year's draft!
Sorry. Don't buy it. Tavares has potential to be really good, but come on. Every team that's successful has good players surrounding their stars... most of those players aren't lottery picks. Ask Columbus.
Or, you know, he had a valid point and other people understand that point independently of what he thought. Sorry friend... the "cool poster" thing sounds like ********* and an easy way for you to dismiss people's opinions.
That's fine. Every year there are nice looking prospects. Can't miss! That's really the rub, right? Every year.... Look! There's next year's draft!
What gets me is there is no justification for saying good prospects are nothing without good players to play with. Talk about hissyfits if you say 20 great toddlers with the worst teachers won't turn out the Nobel Prize in 12 years.
Tavares is doing well. How awesome would he have it with a primetime first liner? (I think somewhere in the world a person just died when I typed that)
Trottier had his myopic points (snipers not playing two way hockey being fodder) but he was spot on with kids - kids - KIDS posters. The machine is the sum of its parts. Well, you need broken in engines to drive fresh tires and transmissions around. We're currently employing broken in bumpers and rims and risking damage with a fresh built engine the past few years.
Subtle car examples, but quite relevant.
At least Go-Go-Gonads isn't driving the wreck into the ground anymore. We gots us a patient driver now!
Starting to get tired of listening to the Bailey/Comeau trade proposals. We need to give Bailey one more shot, and Comeau had a career year last year. Why can't we be happy with the team we have now? We played great last season with the exception of that awful losing streak.
I would rather not trade either of these guys. However ANYONE can be traded for the right return.
I actually like both of these players. However at some point a team that wants to build will need to shed something they may not want to shed of there roster. I think that is you can land a TOP flight D man and i mean a true top tier guy one of these two or perhaps both would need to in order to land the player perhaps.
I mean if you got a call from someone saying we want to trade you Tyler Meyers
we want Baily and and Blake.
I would assume that we would think about it.
I think it comes down to this Bailey has one more year and if he doens't put up something really respectable he's done. Comeau sure had a career year has trended upwards and even i've said he can hit 30 goals, but if the right trade comes along you have to sell high. He is a great 3rd liner and a capable 2nd liner.
Stats for last three years:
2010-11 NY Islanders NHL GP 77 G 24 A 22 PTS 46 -17
2009-10 NY Islanders NHL GP 61 G 17 A 18 PTS 35 -2
2008-09 NY Islanders NHL GP 53 G 7 A 18 PTS 25 -17
Every year he's gone up in pts and has played more games 09 10 he plays 8 more games and scores 10 more points.... 10 11 he plays 16 more games and scores 11 more points... lets say he does play here this season I think he could improve his numbers but who knows.
So do you sell high or assume he's going to trend even higher? Maybe this rant is pointless but if we wanna make a trade and have to give up a nhl ready player besides Bailey and Comeau who else are the isles willing to trade... Eaton Mottau who have no value cuz of their injuries last year?
I think it comes down to this Bailey has one more year and if he doens't put up something really respectable he's done. Comeau sure had a career year has trended upwards and even i've said he can hit 30 goals, but if the right trade comes along you have to sell high. He is a great 3rd liner and a capable 2nd liner.
Stats for last three years:
2010-11 NY Islanders NHL GP 77 G 24 A 22 PTS 46 -17
2009-10 NY Islanders NHL GP 61 G 17 A 18 PTS 35 -2
2008-09 NY Islanders NHL GP 53 G 7 A 18 PTS 25 -17
Every year he's gone up in pts and has played more games 09 10 he plays 8 more games and scores 10 more points.... 10 11 he plays 16 more games and scores 11 more points... lets say he does play here this season I think he could improve his numbers but who knows.
So do you sell high or assume he's going to trend even higher? Maybe this rant is pointless but if we wanna make a trade and have to give up a nhl ready player besides Bailey and Comeau who else are the isles willing to trade... Eaton Mottau who have no value cuz of their injuries last year?
Comeau's career is like Benoit Hogue's, similar arc in their careers, he is a guy to hold on to.
You are right are tradeable assets are limited, because plugging one hole opens another hole. We need to take a bad salary back and give up picks and Wishart type prospects.
I think if it comes down to trading Comeau for Ballard that just fails on every level. I would rather see Reese or De Haan in the top 4 than watch Comeau put up 75 points in Vancouver.
Comeau's career is like Benoit Hogue's, similar arc in their careers, he is a guy to hold on to.
You are right are tradeable assets are limited, because plugging one hole opens another hole. We need to take a bad salary back and give up picks and Wishart type prospects.
I think if it comes down to trading Comeau for Ballard that just fails on every level. I would rather see Reese or De Haan in the top 4 than watch Comeau put up 75 points in Vancouver.
God no, that would be an epic fail on Garths part.
God no, that would be an epic fail on Garths part.
I agree, but seeing Comeau put up 75 points in Western Canada will be tough to stomach, he should be on our first line with Moulson and JT. Look at the end of 2009/10 and how they played together, they never played together again.
De haan gets called up with Eaton and Jurcina get hurt, and if we get a top 4 guy, then our bottom pairing will be De Haan/Reese.
Something like:
Streit/Ballard
Hamonic/MacDonald
De Haan/Reese
Assuming Eaton, Jurcina and Mottau will all break down.
I agree, but seeing Comeau put up 75 points in Western Canada will be tough to stomach, he should be on our first line with Moulson and JT. Look at the end of 2009/10 and how they played together, they never played together again.
I really don't think you'll have to worry about that. I think that's overstating Comeau's potential.
If you look closer at his year to year stats, the improvements are more in his durability than his actual production. Or rather, the improvements in production are the result of him playing more games. But the actual production doesn't skyrocket, if you look at it on a prorated basis.
If you prorate his past three seasons over 77 games (what he played last year), he would have scored 36 points, 44 points, and 46 points, respectively. An improvement, for sure, no denying that. But it's a modest improvement in production per game. The significant difference is he's managed to improve upon his games played.
Which then suggests that his improvements from here on in might not be as big as one might initially expect. He played 77 games last year, so the most he can improve upon that is 82 games. It's not like he can leap from 53 games (when he scored 25 points) to 77 games, and thus produce more during those extra games.
So with the added 5 games, and with a bit more experience/development, if he continues on his same point per game improvements, chances are a 50 to 55 point season is where you'd see a jump in his production, not 75 or so.
I really don't think you'll have to worry about that. I think that's overstating Comeau's potential.
If you look closer at his year to year stats, the improvements are more in his durability than his actual production. Or rather, the improvements in production are the result of him playing more games. But the actual production doesn't skyrocket, if you look at it on a prorated basis.
If you prorate his past three seasons over 77 games (what he played last year), he would have scored 36 points, 44 points, and 46 points, respectively. An improvement, for sure, no denying that. But it's a modest improvement in production per game. The significant difference is he's managed to improve upon his games played.
Which then suggests that his improvements from here on in might not be as big as one might initially expect. He played 77 games last year, so the most he can improve upon that is 82 games. It's not like he can leap from 53 games (when he scored 25 points) to 77 games, and thus produce more during those extra games.
So with the added 5 games, and with a bit more experience/development, if he continues on his same point per game improvements, chances are a 50 to 55 point season is where you'd see a jump in his production, not 75 or so.
There are caveats:
Bailey was horrendous much of the year. That hurt.
Gorton was coaching the team into oblivion. That hurt.
Much of our D was injured. That hurt.
Our goaltending and zone play was lacking most of the year. That hurt.
So add factors not in his control and we see Comeau led the line with little help much of the year, the line was demoted to third line status and he still managed an increase in production.
So if Bailey snaps his head on right and they have Nino on wing helping with driving to the crease or setting up on the off wing, and our defense helps create and prevent getting bogged down in the zone, Comeau could hit a nice stride and eclipse the past year's totals with a 30+ goal campaign but more importantly, a 40 assist campaign since the line will be stronger.
If you look closer at his year to year stats, the improvements are more in his durability than his actual production. Or rather, the improvements in production are the result of him playing more games. But the actual production doesn't skyrocket, if you look at it on a prorated basis.
I agree that I don't see Comeau getting 75 points, but really the improvement is more about him "getting it" than durability because a lot of those missing games early in his career were due to (deserved) healthy scratches.
I really don't think you'll have to worry about that. I think that's overstating Comeau's potential.
If you look closer at his year to year stats, the improvements are more in his durability than his actual production. Or rather, the improvements in production are the result of him playing more games. But the actual production doesn't skyrocket, if you look at it on a prorated basis.
If you prorate his past three seasons over 77 games (what he played last year), he would have scored 36 points, 44 points, and 46 points, respectively. An improvement, for sure, no denying that. But it's a modest improvement in production per game. The significant difference is he's managed to improve upon his games played.
Which then suggests that his improvements from here on in might not be as big as one might initially expect. He played 77 games last year, so the most he can improve upon that is 82 games. It's not like he can leap from 53 games (when he scored 25 points) to 77 games, and thus produce more during those extra games.
So with the added 5 games, and with a bit more experience/development, if he continues on his same point per game improvements, chances are a 50 to 55 point season is where you'd see a jump in his production, not 75 or so.
I will continue to maintain that Blake Comeau will be near All Star level, it sounds like a reach but he has a lot of the necessary skills to be that player.
He had to play for stretches on a line with Jon Sim and Rob Schremp, 2 guys who will never see the NHL ice again unless they become Zamboni drivers. The whole entire time Bailey was in Bridgeport, these were his linemates. I think Mr Crosby would struggle to put up points with those guys on his line.
The other time was spent with Bailey and Martin, 2 guys who are vastly underdeveloped at this stage of their career.
Comeau is going to supplant PAP on that first line if Nino makes the team and the numbers will be very impressive. Comeau is playing for big money this year.
I think he will be a 75 point scorer in this league.
Bailey was horrendous much of the year. That hurt.
Gorton was coaching the team into oblivion. That hurt.
Much of our D was injured. That hurt.
Our goaltending and zone play was lacking most of the year. That hurt.
So add factors not in his control and we see Comeau led the line with little help much of the year, the line was demoted to third line status and he still managed an increase in production.
So if Bailey snaps his head on right and they have Nino on wing helping with driving to the crease or setting up on the off wing, and our defense helps create and prevent getting bogged down in the zone, Comeau could hit a nice stride and eclipse the past year's totals with a 30+ goal campaign but more importantly, a 40 assist campaign since the line will be stronger.
It hinges on Bailey, though.
With the addition of Rolston, Comeau is going to be on the first line, unless they deal Bailey which I do not see happening.
I agree that I don't see Comeau getting 75 points, but really the improvement is more about him "getting it" than durability because a lot of those missing games early in his career were due to (deserved) healthy scratches.
I worded that poorly. I was just kind of alluding to the fact the point total differences aren't as big as one might think, if you factor in the games he played, and how if you put those totals on an even scale (ie. prorate over his highest games total) the increase in production isn't as big.
I was attempting to put into context what kind of "projections" you might be able to infer for him going forward, based on looking deeper at all the numbers rather than just compare point totals by year, without taking into consideration other factors (like games played in this case).
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey
There are caveats:
Bailey was horrendous much of the year. That hurt.
Gorton was coaching the team into oblivion. That hurt.
Much of our D was injured. That hurt.
Our goaltending and zone play was lacking most of the year. That hurt.
So add factors not in his control and we see Comeau led the line with little help much of the year, the line was demoted to third line status and he still managed an increase in production.
So if Bailey snaps his head on right and they have Nino on wing helping with driving to the crease or setting up on the off wing, and our defense helps create and prevent getting bogged down in the zone, Comeau could hit a nice stride and eclipse the past year's totals with a 30+ goal campaign but more importantly, a 40 assist campaign since the line will be stronger.
It hinges on Bailey, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by majormet
I will continue to maintain that Blake Comeau will be near All Star level, it sounds like a reach but he has a lot of the necessary skills to be that player.
He had to play for stretches on a line with Jon Sim and Rob Schremp, 2 guys who will never see the NHL ice again unless they become Zamboni drivers. The whole entire time Bailey was in Bridgeport, these were his linemates. I think Mr Crosby would struggle to put up points with those guys on his line.
The other time was spent with Bailey and Martin, 2 guys who are vastly underdeveloped at this stage of their career.
Comeau is going to supplant PAP on that first line if Nino makes the team and the numbers will be very impressive. Comeau is playing for big money this year.
I think he will be a 75 point scorer in this league.
Valid points with regards to linemates. However, I just don't think even with improvements to linemates' production, you'd see Comeau jump from a 46 point guy to a 75+ point guy. Heck, John Tavares is going to be in tough to hit 75 points this season, and I don't see Comeau having nearly his ability.
As I said, it's not that I don't think he can improve. With a more productive (more consistent) Bailey, Comeau can likely see his numbers jump up by 10 or so points. But I don't think he'll improve his numbers by a whopping 30 points. I just don't think Comeau's got the kind of ability to be a 75-point guy, which would put him into the same category as guys like Eric Staal, Patrick Kane, Rick Nash, etc.
I will continue to maintain that Blake Comeau will be near All Star level, it sounds like a reach but he has a lot of the necessary skills to be that player.
He had to play for stretches on a line with Jon Sim and Rob Schremp, 2 guys who will never see the NHL ice again unless they become Zamboni drivers. The whole entire time Bailey was in Bridgeport, these were his linemates. I think Mr Crosby would struggle to put up points with those guys on his line.
The other time was spent with Bailey and Martin, 2 guys who are vastly underdeveloped at this stage of their career.
Comeau is going to supplant PAP on that first line if Nino makes the team and the numbers will be very impressive. Comeau is playing for big money this year.
I think he will be a 75 point scorer in this league.
bar your point of his linemates dude come on... I like blake as much as the next guy but if you think he's gonna put up allstar number points your going to be dissapointed. He just doesn't have that in him... nothign wrong with that its not his role to bang in 75 points hes starting to play his role very well and i like the offense he brings into that role.
I'd love to be proved wrong but its just not gonna happen
bar your point of his linemates dude come on... I like blake as much as the next guy but if you think he's gonna put up allstar number points your going to be dissapointed. He just doesn't have that in him... nothign wrong with that its not his role to bang in 75 points hes starting to play his role very well and i like the offense he brings into that role.
I'd love to be proved wrong but its just not gonna happen
If Comeau were to go to the Canucks and play with the Sedins, he could hit 75 points.
I still think he gets to play with JT this year over PAP and puts up the numbers (60 points this season), we have 10 forwards in 9 slots and I do believe that PAP will be the odd man out in the Schremp/Tambellini role this year.
If Comeau were to go to the Canucks and play with the Sedins, he could hit 75 points.
I still think he gets to play with JT this year over PAP and puts up the numbers (60 points this season), we have 10 forwards in 9 slots and I do believe that PAP will be the odd man out in the Schremp/Tambellini role this year.
like I said i'd love to be proved wrong, but I just can't see that happening. Thats not a slight against Comeau or the sedins or anyone... I look at it this way
guys can't make that jump when they play with Crosby....
so okay lets use the sedins maybe he gets 20 more assists becaue he passes the puck to one of them and then they do figure 8's and score lol, but other then that he's not gonna be a defining factor on that line... plus he'd never be on there line so its just a mute point.
Also I'd rather see KO play on the top line with JT. Anyawy though hey if he scores 65 to 75 points this year bump this thread and I will say you were right lol and I'll say it with a smile as well
As an Islander fan, I REALLY want to see if Comeau and Bailey - who'll likely remain united and either play with Rolston or Niederreiter - can each put up 45+ points next year while the other two lines continue producing at a clip like they did last year.
I think we all agree that we've seen enough of these two to know that this projection is very realistic when taking their age and developmental steps into account - and I say it knowing that you rarely have enough ice time in this league to be boasting nine 40+ point forwards.
I write this knowing that Okposo should definitely have more points than last season and that Tavares should be closer to 80 than 65. I write this with the feeling that Grabner and Parenteau will not repeat their point output of last season, although particularly Grabner should still reach the 25 goal mark.
I wouldn't be surprised if Comeau is kind of hitting his zenith, which is fine. He brings enough to the table as is to play a good role.
I know many may want to disagree, but I still can't help but look at Bailey's first three seasons and the way he played his last 35 games last year and see some parallels to Henrik Sedin's initial three seasons in the NHL. Skating, hockey sense, style.... I'm obviously not going to say he's a clone, but even a Henrik-light is not something to throw around foolishly.
As for defense, I just don't see the great need for a bonafide top 4 at the moment - not in order to make the playoffs. I think a MUCH better track record with respect to the IR and some solid goaltending from whoever wins the job are the keys to making the playoffs. The boys we have now (with Reese as the on-the-Island-number-seven) with Wishart, Katic and maybe even de Haan as the first call-ups are enough to get spot 8. I think the offense is there.
I admit, I wouldn't mind another body on the blueline, but actually there are a few UFAs who would help in the depth department and I'd rather see them signed than dishing off a Comeau or Bailey at this point. Or Snow does another "3rd for Wisniewski" type of move.
With the addition of Rolston, Comeau is going to be on the first line, unless they deal Bailey which I do not see happening.
In a choice between PAP and Comeau, it should be Comeau on the Tavares line.
The way things will go is PAP with Tavares, Comeau with Rolston. I think if Rolston has his game going he can really help both Comeau and Bailey, and they can help each other. This could be a very productive line when you consider they will not get top pair defending against them.
In a choice between PAP and Comeau, it should be Comeau on the Tavares line.
The way things will go is PAP with Tavares, Comeau with Rolston. I think if Rolston has his game going he can really help both Comeau and Bailey, and they can help each other. This could be a very productive line when you consider they will not get top pair defending against them.
And where will Nino play (with Reasoner and Martin?)
I think PAP is going to the luxury box this year in Tambellini/Schremp fashion and Comeau gets on that first line with the chance to make a big money contract.
And where will Nino play (with Reasoner and Martin?)
I think PAP is going to the luxury box this year in Tambellini/Schremp fashion and Comeau gets on that first line with the chance to make a big money contract.
I'm not s sure about this. What Tavares & Moulson need is fast skater who works the corners and can hit those other two. Tavares is a scorer/passer, Moulson a shooter. Comeau has speed and can hit, but he is also a shooter. He would have to be a strong forechecker/backchecker and give up some shooting for that line to make the most of their abilities.
I would be surprised if thet are going to pay PAP $1.2MM to sit in the owners box.
