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All Purpose Proposals Mashup Pt. II

View Poll Results: would you sign morrison
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Old
11-07-2011, 01:08 PM
  #326
Bleach Clean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Just a thought from a CBJ fan. Would the following be a plausible trade:

Van:
Nash
Brassard/Vermette
Mason
Pick/Prospect (value depends on what you guys think of trade)

CBJ:
Kesler
Ballard
Luongo

Ballard and Luongo are considered dumps from a Vancouver point of view, allowing Schnieder to play as the #1 and freeing up space. Nash would be on top line with Sedins. Brassard/Vermette brought in to center 2nd line.

I know Kesler is untouchable and what not, but from a hypothetical view would it fit any needs for Vancouver? The reason why I ask is because I see in Kesler attributes that could IMO turn the Columbus franchise around. He's a Buckeye, is a leader, is a top forward in the league, etc. As for moving Nash, I feel that he could free up a ton of ice for the Sedins. Also, I think Luongo's contract is going to hurt Vancouver in the long run but he's an immediate replacement for Mason in Columbus.

The salaries balance out to CBJ taking on ~$600,000 this year. As for the pick/prospect, could add Moore, Savard, Atkinson, Calvert, etc. Wouldn't want to add Johansen unless value is WAY off in your eyes. A guaranteed 1st overall pick is a non-starter because the franchise would just hang onto it.

Few things that are issues with this:

1. Kesler is the best player in the deal = non-starter for Van.

2. It's debatable, highly debatable, who is more useful to this team _right_now_, Luongo or Nash. I'd prefer the winger to the goal-tender, but I understand that Lu has put up strong numbers in total, from year to year. Just not sure about that swap.

3. You'll have to deal Umberger right after this goes down lol. He and Kesler don't quite see eye to eye. Umbie was a Van draft as you might know.

4. Value is way off. If we accept that Kesler is the best player in the deal, and if we agree that Luongo vs. Nash is a wash (highly debatable).

5. Nash's contract throws off the salary structure of the team. It's why Ehrhoff walked... or at least that was the reason given by Gillis.




Just curious Crede777: Would CLB do a Schneider for Johansen + 1st swap you think? Or, replace the first with John Moore. If CLB is going all in this year, and their major weakness is goal-tending, is this a deal that can work for both teams?

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11-07-2011, 01:16 PM
  #327
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The biggest problem with that deal is that Kesler @ 5 million for this year and four more is one of the best non-ELC contracts in the entire NHL. The Canucks might have 4 of the 10 best forward contracts going (Hank + Daniel + Kesler + Burrows).

Canucks would never deal Kesler, and they certainly wouldn't trade for Nash without a major salary going back like Ballard's. It's just a non-starter and not something the Canucks would even look at, I don't think.

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Old
11-07-2011, 01:37 PM
  #328
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I like Nash but at $7.8m per year until eternity he's probably one of the most overpaid players in the league. I'd be more interested in their first rounder this year.
OH jeeze...for some reason I still thought he was just a shade under $6M. I'd go up to $6.5M or even $7M max on Nash, but not close to $8. Just like Eric Staal, he's grossly overpaid.

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11-07-2011, 02:06 PM
  #329
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Hmm, I'm wondering if maybe the Canucks are prepared to make an offersheet proposal to Kyle Turris on July 1? Perhaps that would explain why we acquired our 3rd round pick in the 2013 draft. Maybe Gillis knew that Maloney wasn't going to trade Turris this year, and instead of disrupting his team by throwing an offersheet to Turris now (one that he couldn't really afford anyways) he'll do so in the off-season?

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11-07-2011, 02:27 PM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Just a thought from a CBJ fan. Would the following be a plausible trade:

Van:
Nash
Brassard/Vermette
Mason
Pick/Prospect (value depends on what you guys think of trade)

CBJ:
Kesler
Ballard
Luongo

Ballard and Luongo are considered dumps from a Vancouver point of view, allowing Schnieder to play as the #1 and freeing up space. Nash would be on top line with Sedins. Brassard/Vermette brought in to center 2nd line.

I know Kesler is untouchable and what not, but from a hypothetical view would it fit any needs for Vancouver? The reason why I ask is because I see in Kesler attributes that could IMO turn the Columbus franchise around. He's a Buckeye, is a leader, is a top forward in the league, etc. As for moving Nash, I feel that he could free up a ton of ice for the Sedins. Also, I think Luongo's contract is going to hurt Vancouver in the long run but he's an immediate replacement for Mason in Columbus.

The salaries balance out to CBJ taking on ~$600,000 this year. As for the pick/prospect, could add Moore, Savard, Atkinson, Calvert, etc. Wouldn't want to add Johansen unless value is WAY off in your eyes. A guaranteed 1st overall pick is a non-starter because the franchise would just hang onto it.
As you said, Columbus takes on a mere 600,000 if we're going to do a "salary dump" based trade, why give up arguably our best player and starting goaltender to save 600,000? Makes no sense. If Luongo's contract is "going to hurt the Canucks" (it won't) why would it help Columbus? Real questionable contracts I see are 6 million between Brassard and Mason... Even theoretically it doesn't make sense. Unless for some reason we decided to make our team considerably worse in order to save 600,000...

Canucks cap is very well managed and cap hits are all that matters in this market. Luongo's contract is not going to hurt nearly as much as fans of other teams like to think. It's already nearly out of the top 10 for cap hits among goalies and that number will rise over the next few years. With Schneider, Lack and others waiting in the pipeline, Gillis has set up a cheap back-up for the forseeable future. Meaning we spend around 6 million on goaltending every year. Not a big issue. Will continue to be less of an issue as the contract goes on. Right now it's not a great deal, but it's nothing that's going to handcuff us in the future. We'll just be pumping out young goalies for the next while. Leading me to the only thing between the two teams that makes sense to me:

Corey Schneider for Ryan Johansen.

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Old
11-07-2011, 02:56 PM
  #331
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Deadline deal (would you do)

Cody + Corey + Keith

to the Devils for

Zach + Andy (Greene)

Pretty cheap price for Parise... but you run the risk of him going UFA.

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11-07-2011, 04:36 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
Deadline deal (would you do)

Cody + Corey + Keith

to the Devils for

Zach + Andy (Greene)

Pretty cheap price for Parise... but you run the risk of him going UFA.
In a heartbeat.

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Old
11-07-2011, 04:42 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
Deadline deal (would you do)

Cody + Corey + Keith

to the Devils for

Zach + Andy (Greene)

Pretty cheap price for Parise... but you run the risk of him going UFA.
Take on $9m and only give up about $6.7m, not sure if the cap Gods like that deal. Personally I wouldn't do it, not that the value isn't appealing, but I'm not keen on that price for someone who could choose to walk off July 1st.

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11-07-2011, 05:49 PM
  #334
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would you make this trade:

to cbj: cory schneider
to van: cbj 2012 1st round pick

i'd say even with schneids columbus has a 25% chance or better of getting the first overall pick so i doubt columbus would do it but then howson has to be getting pretty desperate right now to make a move. vancouver would have to call up lack or get a backup and either way that would have a huge impact on luongo's workload.

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Old
11-07-2011, 05:52 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbitterguy View Post
would you make this trade:

to cbj: cory schneider
to van: cbj 2012 1st round pick

i'd say even with schneids columbus has a 25% chance or better of getting the first overall pick so i doubt columbus would do it but then howson has to be getting pretty desperate right now to make a move. vancouver would have to call up lack or get a backup and either way that would have a huge impact on luongo's workload.

Nope. The pick doesn't help us right now. We need a player that's playing right now. A pure futures trade won't help this team this year.


And Canucker is right about the Parise deal IMO. Cap is an issue, and no guarantees Parise doesn't walk. Besides, I think he's signing there long-term anyways.

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11-08-2011, 11:54 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Nope. The pick doesn't help us right now. We need a player that's playing right now. A pure futures trade won't help this team this year.


And Canucker is right about the Parise deal IMO. Cap is an issue, and no guarantees Parise doesn't walk. Besides, I think he's signing there long-term anyways.
It wouldn't be impossible to find a way to shuffle things around though.

For example if we are looking at a top ten (or top five, or..) first round pick, surely we can move our own first rounder for help right now, right?

As for the backup spot, Florida will likely deal Scott Clemmenson shortly, Evgeni Nabokov is going to become available later in the year.. there is lots of time to get a good goaltender into the fold.

All that being said, I'd be wary of trading for a 1RP at this point in the season expecting the team we're acquiring it from to tank; especially when we are giving them a player that could shore up their biggest weakness. Look at the Varlamov trade, it's early in the season but right now the Caps are looking at a 13th overall pick for their goaltender.

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Old
11-08-2011, 12:36 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Nope. The pick doesn't help us right now. We need a player that's playing right now. A pure futures trade won't help this team this year.


And Canucker is right about the Parise deal IMO. Cap is an issue, and no guarantees Parise doesn't walk. Besides, I think he's signing there long-term anyways.
I'd do it in a heartbeat. The pick can be easily re-routed to another team with an asset we can actually use.

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Old
11-08-2011, 01:58 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by R0bert0 Lu0ng0 View Post
It wouldn't be impossible to find a way to shuffle things around though.

For example if we are looking at a top ten (or top five, or..) first round pick, surely we can move our own first rounder for help right now, right?

As for the backup spot, Florida will likely deal Scott Clemmenson shortly, Evgeni Nabokov is going to become available later in the year.. there is lots of time to get a good goaltender into the fold.

All that being said, I'd be wary of trading for a 1RP at this point in the season expecting the team we're acquiring it from to tank; especially when we are giving them a player that could shore up their biggest weakness. Look at the Varlamov trade, it's early in the season but right now the Caps are looking at a 13th overall pick for their goaltender.

This is the fear. That Schneider helps CLB so much as to make that pick move out of the top 10. If that happens, then CLB absolutely wins that deal because they get better now in a hurry, giving up a pick that isn't vital to their plans (they've got enough young prospects), while they weaken Vancouver in the short-term for a marginal benefit to Van.


Sure, you can use the pick as currency, or use our pick as such. Still, the goal is to win now. And with that in mind, are we absolutely certain that a CLB 1st rnd pick will garner a player that helps us more than Schneider is now? I would bet against it.


Schneider is the check to Luongo this year, much like Rask is for Thomas. The B's understand the importance of not having a huge drop off in goal-tending performance throughout a long schedule - and so do the Canucks. IMO, Gillis won't trade Schneider until after the season is over. If at that point the CLB 1st is on the table and it's in the top 10, then maybe it could work, but not right now.


My guess is that Schneider will eventually get dealt in a package for Turris at the end of the year. By that time, Turris will have missed a whole year of development, and Phoenix may rush to get a strong asset for a much weaker one (and perhaps throw in a pick) that isn't going to play for them anymore.

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11-08-2011, 02:18 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
This is the fear. That Schneider helps CLB so much as to make that pick move out of the top 10. If that happens, then CLB absolutely wins that deal because they get better now in a hurry, giving up a pick that isn't vital to their plans (they've got enough young prospects), while they weaken Vancouver in the short-term for a marginal benefit to Van.


Sure, you can use the pick as currency, or use our pick as such. Still, the goal is to win now. And with that in mind, are we absolutely certain that a CLB 1st rnd pick will garner a player that helps us more than Schneider is now? I would bet against it.


Schneider is the check to Luongo this year, much like Rask is for Thomas. The B's understand the importance of not having a huge drop off in goal-tending performance throughout a long schedule - and so do the Canucks. IMO, Gillis won't trade Schneider until after the season is over. If at that point the CLB 1st is on the table and it's in the top 10, then maybe it could work, but not right now.


My guess is that Schneider will eventually get dealt in a package for Turris at the end of the year. By that time, Turris will have missed a whole year of development, and Phoenix may rush to get a strong asset for a much weaker one (and perhaps throw in a pick) that isn't going to play for them anymore.
A likely top 10 pick (more likely top 5) has more value around the league than Schneider IMO, considering there are fewer teams looking for a young starter. It's not a trade I'd leap at, but its one definitely worth thinking about. A lottery pick for a backup isn't all that bad.

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11-08-2011, 02:44 PM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
A likely top 10 pick (more likely top 5) has more value around the league than Schneider IMO, considering there are fewer teams looking for a young starter. It's not a trade I'd leap at, but its one definitely worth thinking about. A lottery pick for a backup isn't all that bad.
It's been reported that the Canucks turned down the #11 pick from Colorado last year, so I don't know how true that is. I know generally young goaltenders don't have great value, but Schneider is a kid that A) hasn't come out of nowhere, and B) has good pedigree. All it takes is a GM or two thinking "This is the guy we need" and the price goes up.

I think there's a reason Dreger said that Schneider would fetch a good price on the market. He's shown a lot in his short time in the NHL and seems fundmentally solid.

It's hard to peg his price exactly, but if Gillis could get two teams interested, it would help him leverage a deal -- whenever he decides he needs to .

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11-08-2011, 02:48 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
A likely top 10 pick (more likely top 5) has more value around the league than Schneider IMO, considering there are fewer teams looking for a young starter. It's not a trade I'd leap at, but its one definitely worth thinking about. A lottery pick for a backup isn't all that bad.

Assuming it's guaranteed to be top 10 even after CLB adds Schneider. Which is not a safe assumption at all. I think he'd improve them to the point that they would be out of the top 10. Then the pick isn't worth it IMO (and I'm a heavy draft advocate).


If it's top 3-4 guaranteed, then I'd do it. Odds are, you're going to end up with a better player than Schneider is long-term. Perhaps even a franchise player. But beyond that, a I pick doesn't help the nucks during the season. If after the season CLB wants to do it, then by all means.

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11-08-2011, 04:58 PM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbitterguy View Post
would you make this trade:

to cbj: cory schneider
to van: cbj 2012 1st round pick

i'd say even with schneids columbus has a 25% chance or better of getting the first overall pick so i doubt columbus would do it but then howson has to be getting pretty desperate right now to make a move. vancouver would have to call up lack or get a backup and either way that would have a huge impact on luongo's workload.
I would, so long as we get a backup too. The 1st has BY FAR more universal marketibility and could be flipped for something of great value at the deadline to any seller, not just those needing goalies. If it looks like its going to be a top5 pick then we would be able to add a much better piece at the deadline trading that than Schneider.

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11-08-2011, 05:21 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Campoli2Burrows View Post
I would, so long as we get a backup too. The 1st has BY FAR more universal marketibility and could be flipped for something of great value at the deadline to any seller, not just those needing goalies. If it looks like its going to be a top5 pick then we would be able to add a much better piece at the deadline trading that than Schneider.

Ok, in order for me to understand this, can people who advocate trading Schneider for CBJ's first follow it a step further and propose an actual trade with that 1st rndr that would occur before the deadline? I'd like to see what people think that 1st could garner.

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11-08-2011, 06:55 PM
  #344
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To Islanders: Ballard
To Canucks: Comeau

To Hurricanes: Raymond
To Canucks: Gleason

To Flames: I dunno like a pick or something
To Canucks: Sarich

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hodgson
Higgins-Malhotra-Hansen
Comeau-Lapierre-Wiese

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Salo
Gleason-Sarich

Loungo
Schneider

Ex - Rome, Alberts, Volpatti

BAM!

You're welcome Gillis

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Old
11-08-2011, 07:02 PM
  #345
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I'm surprised with myself at this statement, but the only CBJ I'd be interested in at the deadline is Christian Huselius. Fitting him under the cap would be a challenge though and only if the pricetag were cheap (2nd rder + B prospect).

Like a slicker, equally as injury prone, rapey Ales Hemsky for the 2nd line.

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11-08-2011, 07:58 PM
  #346
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Would not touch Huselius with a 10 foot pole. Only CBJ player I'd be interested in period is Johansen and no way they're moving him anytime soon so forget it.

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Old
11-08-2011, 08:15 PM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit View Post
To Islanders: Ballard
To Canucks: Comeau

To Hurricanes: Raymond
To Canucks: Gleason

To Flames: I dunno like a pick or something
To Canucks: Sarich

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hodgson
Higgins-Malhotra-Hansen
Comeau-Lapierre-Wiese

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Salo
Gleason-Sarich

Loungo
Schneider

Ex - Rome, Alberts, Volpatti

BAM!

You're welcome Gillis
Too legitimate.

Schneider for Johansen

Then Ballard + Johansen + Schroeder + 1st for Weber

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11-08-2011, 08:44 PM
  #348
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Thanks for the responses guys.

A few things that went into my proposal:
1. I know Kesler is the best player in the deal. If it's a non-starter for a cup contending team to deal away "the best player" in a trade, that's understandable.
2. I wouldn't consider Luongo <-> Nash a wash. In my proposal, Luongo was a moderate upgrade to Mason while serving as a dump for your team to get him off the books and go with Schnieder. That's provided Schnieder can get a contract extension.

I don't think Columbus would do a Schnieder for Johansen + 1st swap. Johansen is the only bright spot in this season for the team and is developing quite nicely. A young potential #1 center holds more value than a young, potential #1 goaltender. Schnieder has proven more but also has 1 year on his contract as you are aware. Additionally, the 1st has a good likelyhood of being a top-3 pick and as such Columbus could draft a franchise forward or defenseman and then take a flyer on a free-agent goaltender (every year there seem to be plenty).

If a deal were to be between Vancouver and Columbus concerning Schnieder, I highly doubt Johansen would be the piece moved. It'd likely be Brassard/Vermette or something else.

Thank you once again for looking at my proposal. I overlooked how much Vancouver was still in "cup contention" mode despite a lukewarm beginning, as well as overlooked the value Luongo still holds for the team.

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11-08-2011, 08:50 PM
  #349
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Maybe Gillis is on the "One more kick at the can" train before trading Schneider to draft Nail.

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11-08-2011, 09:09 PM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Thanks for the responses guys.

A few things that went into my proposal:
1. I know Kesler is the best player in the deal. If it's a non-starter for a cup contending team to deal away "the best player" in a trade, that's understandable.
2. I wouldn't consider Luongo <-> Nash a wash. In my proposal, Luongo was a moderate upgrade to Mason while serving as a dump for your team to get him off the books and go with Schnieder. That's provided Schnieder can get a contract extension.

I don't think Columbus would do a Schnieder for Johansen + 1st swap. Johansen is the only bright spot in this season for the team and is developing quite nicely. A young potential #1 center holds more value than a young, potential #1 goaltender. Schnieder has proven more but also has 1 year on his contract as you are aware. Additionally, the 1st has a good likelyhood of being a top-3 pick and as such Columbus could draft a franchise forward or defenseman and then take a flyer on a free-agent goaltender (every year there seem to be plenty).

If a deal were to be between Vancouver and Columbus concerning Schnieder, I highly doubt Johansen would be the piece moved. It'd likely be Brassard/Vermette or something else.

Thank you once again for looking at my proposal. I overlooked how much Vancouver was still in "cup contention" mode despite a lukewarm beginning, as well as overlooked the value Luongo still holds for the team.


If it was determined that Van was no longer in cup contention, or if they were hard pressed to make the playoffs even, then a lot more options open up. But until that point, this is still a team that went to the SCF last season... You don't mess with that too much until you have to.


Luongo is not a salary dump. Every year, the team reaps a greater reward from his 5.3 cap hit number. And his numbers are getting better. It would be a totally different scenario if there seemed no way that he would come out of his poor play, but his bad Octobers are a common theme. People are used to it in this market.


Kesler is absolutely a non-starter. A team would only downgrade on him if the pieces coming in offered greater future benefit than he would. As is, he's integral to this team's success. He isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

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