Torres is a solid player, I would be very happy to have him. He is a guy who can develop into a 2nd line winger, who can put up his share of points if he's playing with some talented players. Scored 20 goals last year and player very well as a rookie in the AHL playoffs a couple years ago, shows maybe he's one of those guys who does well in the big spots.
Obviously I would prefer him to Lundmark, but here is the main reason. At this point, both seem to have 2nd line potential. Although Torres has had much more success in a shorter NHL career, I will give it to Lundmark... he was a very good offensive player in juniors and in the AHL. Lundmark seems to have more offensive talent, but Torres has outproduced him in the NHL so I'll call it even. However, the difference is Torres brings a much more aggressive, physical type of game to the 2nd line. He is also a little better defensively as well as being a bigger player. If he continues to develop offensively, he could be a very very valuable player on the 2nd line because he can work down low and play a physical game while a guy like Balej isn't going to do that for you, and neither is Lundmark. I would say that is a good deal for the Rangers.
What most people forget is that quite a few NHL organizations are still quite excited about Lundmark. Namely Phoenix and Chicago. I think it's very feasible to get Torres in exchange for Lundmark, and it might be a better tradeoff than keeping Lundmark would be.
Lundmark will not break out next season... he's spending this summer training and getting stronger. Next year will just be a prolonged rookie season. His last two seasons were total failures, and his game has some huge and self-evident holes... if anyone thiniks a player this raw will suddenly come together as a player and put up 25 goals, you're just kidding yourself.
Torres has proved himself... in my eyes, and in the eyes of many.
Torres HAS proven some things. He can play a regular shift on a hockey club without costing his team, and chip in with some goals. I like Lundmark alot too, but Torres can play top 2 line minutes and score enough to stay there (for very few dollars) and to the Edmonton Oilers that is gold.
I think that Edmonton would actually laugh at this proposal....
Torres is very high on their list... he (not Isbister) was the main asset coming back for Niinimma, their #1 dman.. and with Isbister becoming pretty much a bust at this stage (for what his potential was), they'd be even more hardpressed to move Torres for a guy who just hasn't developed.
I know that you Ranger fans will still be very high on Lundmark, but the guy is now 23, 24 during next season, and he's had 2 NHL seasons around 50 games, showing flashes of talent, but nothing consistent at the NHL level yet.
He was taken in the 99 draft, and he's down on the list of first round forwards from that year (considered a weak draft), in how they've performed in the NHL.
Guys like Brendl, Beech, Pyatt, Saprykin, Shvidki, Connelly - all had (or still have) question marks on their development, all have scored at a better pace than Lundmark has... many of the 1999 1st round picks already have 150+ more games in the NHL than Lundmark.
Maybe it was entirely the fault of the Rangers system in developing this kid, but in the end his value in no doubt affected by it.
Torres was in the top 6 in Edmonton last year... spent time even on the top unit, and was one of the Oilers most consistent forwards through the year... he's also a year younger than Lundmark.
I don't think that their values are even close at this stage on the market.... their potential might be similar, but Torres has a lot more going for him right now, and Lundmark has a lot more to prove.
You might be surprised to hear that most NYR fans agree with you 100%.
I don't know if it's anyone's fault... I think it's a lot of horse **** how people talk about a players "potential." I just don't get it... you can only go by what a player has done in juniors or college, there's absolutely no way to predict how a prospect will develop.
Lundmark had been in our top 6 last year... he spent time on our top unit, and was also one of our most consistent forwards... consistently inadequate.
Is there a chance he'll break out? Yes, and I'm open-minded to it, but I'll be damned if it's next season. I think maybe he can stick as a second-liner one day. But I won't be hopelessly optimistic. What he's shown to NYR fans is that he can't do it in the NHL... anyone who disagrees has not followed the Rangers.
yeah the only time lundmark spent on the top unit and top lines was at the end of the year when you could tell he had already given up
not to mention peca took his knee out and he missed a good portion of the year and then looked out of it when he came back
what he's shown to me is he needs to adjust his attitude a little bit and get back to what he was doing in his rookie season...he showed flash and skill that year even though he wasn't getting overall consistant icetime. he can still be a fine NHLer if he settles down and gets his head on straight...whether to blame that on him or the rangers is another argument
He certainly did play LW on the first line... no, it was after his injury, around February. I can only remember a single game, but I'm sure Slats gave him significant time every now and then on the top line. Obviously, lines are not set in stone on a nightly basis, and small adjustments are constantly being made. It's four-line hockey, and we're not a strong, unified team... so it really often comes down to singular placements, dynamic tandems, and various considerations. In fact, I don't know many teams that go a full period without rotating their 12 forwards a little.
he might have gotten a game here and there but he never got consistant top 6 icetime
i don't think he got completely screwed by the rangers and that's his excuse...like i said i think he needs to adjust his attitude and just get out there and DO what he has to do...but he never was a big part of the rangers top lineup last year for any significant length of time
I dont know if i'd make the trade lundy for torres but the guy (raffi) is very, very impressive and i would take him in a sec and he is steps and i mean steps ahead of lundmark at least up to this point, HOWEVER, Torres had a ton of ice time last yr and i have the NHL Center Ice thing and i've seen edmonton alot because they have dvorak and had nedved. Lundmark on the other hand hasnt had the ice time and this yr he does so he might be the raffi torres of this yr. who knows, ice time can only bring more experience and more opportunities and with his skills he has to start scoring eventually.