HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Ryan Kesler vs. Jason Spezza

View Poll Results: Who is better?
Ryan Kesler 144 46.91%
Jason Spezza 143 46.58%
too close to call 20 6.51%
Voters: 307. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-07-2011, 07:46 PM
  #51
Sayonara77
Farewell Kes
 
Sayonara77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Country: United States
Posts: 2,176
vCash: 500
I don't see how spezza is that much better offensively than kesler especially when kes outscored/outproduced him for the past two years. Spezza is definitely more offensively skilled/more talented and the better playmaker, but that's it, really. Kesler is much better defensively, grittier, faster, better : goalscorer, faceoff percentage, pker, forechecker. He simply is the more complete player, triumphs in most aspects of the game and that's not a knock on spezza, honestly.

Voted Kesler, obviously.


Last edited by Sayonara77: 08-07-2011 at 07:53 PM.
Sayonara77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 08:04 PM
  #52
Iamok
#Panic
 
Iamok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,433
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayonara77 View Post
I don't see how spezza is that much better offensively than kesler especially when kes outscored/outproduced him for the past two years. Spezza is definitely more offensively skilled/more talented and the better playmaker, but that's it, really. Kesler is much better defensively, grittier, faster, better : goalscorer, faceoff percentage, pker, forechecker. He simply is the more complete player, triumphs in most aspects of the game and that's not a knock on spezza, honestly.

Voted Kesler, obviously.
Kesler's PPG this season: 0.89

Spezza's PPG this season: 0.92

Then consider that Spezza's linemates were Greening and Butler for the last quarter of the season, and it's not exactly surprising. Kesler's outscored Spezza due to durability, not offensive abilities.

Iamok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 08:36 PM
  #53
AmazingNuck
Registered User
 
AmazingNuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,130
vCash: 500
^^ And Kesler's linemates were Hansen, injured Raymond, injured Samuelsson, and deadline Higgins for the entire season. What's your point?

Offensively, Spezza and Kesler were worlds apart before Kesler began to close the door. Spezza lost two all-star linemates due to trades/old age but his linemates were >>>>>>> Kesler's. 100p Heatley vs. 50p Raymond, 90p Alfredsson vs. 50p Samuelsson.. the disparity is ridiculous.

06-07 Spezza put up a pro-rated 42g while 10-11 Kesler put up 41g. Spezza has put up 3 other pro-rated 30g seasons while Kesler has not. Spezza is the better goal scorer but Kesler is catching up rapidly. Playmaking isn't close and doesn't need to be discussed.

Defensively, it isn't close. Three time Selke nominee with one Selke win vs. at times a liability.. not particularly close.

Physically it isn't close either. While Spezza disappears in the physical game, Kesler engages and often initiates it. While Kesler doesn't hit like a maniac, he is often seen grinding along the boards, in front of the net, or just simply playing the body. Spezza has the edge in size but it doesn't really matter if you don't use it.. and Kesler's got the edge in speed.

I believe Pizza line Spezza's stats were inflated due to Heatley/Alfredsson but they are so impressive so I'll say that Pizza line Spezza could outscore current Kesler enough that it makes up for the defensive/physical difference but current Spezza does not. Career Spezza > career Kesler (undebateable, IMO) while current Kesler > current Spezza.

AmazingNuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 08:50 PM
  #54
Milan the God*
king karlsson
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FleetFoxes View Post
^^ And Kesler's linemates were Hansen, injured Raymond, injured Samuelsson, and deadline Higgins for the entire season. What's your point?
Oh, don't forget playing 3:37 a game with the Sedin twins, Edler and Ehrhoff. Most Canucks fans are forgetting this. It's where 15 of his 41 goals game which is in the top five in the league. At even strength, Spezza drew the top defense pairings while on the Canucks Kesler got the secondary pairings.


Milan the God* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 08:53 PM
  #55
Sensation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cary, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,398
vCash: 500
Just like to throw in that Spezza put up 33 points in the last 30 games of this season while playing with Colin Greening, Bobby Butler, and Eric Condra as his line mates.

Sensation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 08:57 PM
  #56
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,618
vCash: 500
Hfboards, where track record is a bad thing.

Powdered Toast Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 09:03 PM
  #57
Dellstrom
We Like Eich
 
Dellstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 17,870
vCash: 500
Kesler quite easily.

Dellstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 09:14 PM
  #58
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
I'm surprised to see so many votes for Spezza to be honest. The guy couldn't recognize his own zone on a practice board and if he did, he wouldn't have a clue what to do there.

Give me the guy that might produce a bit less offensively, but won't cost his team goals either, the guy who also plays with a chip on his shoulder, with one hip in the playoffs!

Kesler and not even close.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 09:16 PM
  #59
DecimatorDiecuts
Registered User
 
DecimatorDiecuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Prince George
Posts: 116
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Seguin View Post
After watching Kesler dive, whine, cry and choke against my team last June, Spezza easily.
Sure you're not thinking about Burrows? I don't recall Kesler diving and his "choking" probably had to do with his hip that required surgery.

DecimatorDiecuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 09:16 PM
  #60
Ruslan Zainullin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 299
vCash: 500
When you compare Spezza's ppg in an off year against Kesler's ppg in a career year and they wind up the same what does that tell you? going by offensive production Spezza is the better player. As a two way player you can make the argument that Kesler is a better player, but that's not what Spezza gets paid 7 mill a year to do.

Ruslan Zainullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 09:20 PM
  #61
DayNah
Ship it donk!
 
DayNah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,897
vCash: 500
Kesler

DayNah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 09:23 PM
  #62
N O T O R I O U S
╱█████★█████╲
 
N O T O R I O U S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ╱Kurdistan
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,692
vCash: 1100
Kesler is a superstar, so I easily take him.

N O T O R I O U S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 09:25 PM
  #63
DG
Registered User
 
DG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,757
vCash: 500
Spezza and Kesler may have had comparable linemates but consider that he plays against the other team's best players. Kesler wouldn't. And remind me how well he has done in the playoffs vs. Toews, Keith and Seabrook again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I'm surprised to see so many votes for Spezza to be honest. The guy couldn't recognize his own zone on a practice board and if he did, he wouldn't have a clue what to do there.
Any more age old stereotypes you have for me?

Maybe actually watch hockey instead of just repeating what you've heard on the street. And if you don't want to watch other teams play, then don't, but don't try and act like you know half of anything about their players.

DG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 09:35 PM
  #64
Sensation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cary, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I'm surprised to see so many votes for Spezza to be honest. The guy couldn't recognize his own zone on a practice board and if he did, he wouldn't have a clue what to do there.

Give me the guy that might produce a bit less offensively, but won't cost his team goals either, the guy who also plays with a chip on his shoulder, with one hip in the playoffs!

Kesler and not even close.
Is this a joke?

Sensation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 10:24 PM
  #65
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
Any more age old stereotypes you have for me?

Maybe actually watch hockey instead of just repeating what you've heard on the street. And if you don't want to watch other teams play, then don't, but don't try and act like you know half of anything about their players.
Because someone disagrees with you, they can't make their own mind and use old cliches, right? I got it.

The fact is that Spezza, when he wants to, is a dynamic offensive force. The problem is that he's often lazy and certainly isn't strong defensively. And yes, being a Habs' fan, I do get to see him play a bit.

Now feel free to disagree, it's your opinion and I can respect that.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 10:38 PM
  #66
Milan the God*
king karlsson
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I'm surprised to see so many votes for Spezza to be honest. The guy couldn't recognize his own zone on a practice board and if he did, he wouldn't have a clue what to do there.
After the Sens traded Fisher and Kelly, Spezza became the go to guy on the PK for the rest of the year. After he became the #1 guy, the Sens PK went at a very good rate of over 90%. A lot of fans still have images of Spezza from 2006 stuck in their heads, which was an elite offensive player that didn't do much else. He's improved defensively, become a leader, had a great faceoff percentage, and can still put up points. The only thing I'm concerned about with Spezza going into the future is his durability.

Milan the God* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 10:50 PM
  #67
Saving Greiss
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Saving Greiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,232
vCash: 500
Even.

Kesler doesn't have as high an offensive ceiling as Spezza.
Spezza, even though he's improved over the years, probably won't be as effective in the defensive role.

Saving Greiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 10:52 PM
  #68
TOML
Registered User
 
TOML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Walnut Grove
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,879
vCash: 500
To me, Spezza needs to buck up this season or he needs to go.

But this Filatov move reeks of desperation. It's not gonna work.

Bottom line problem might be that Alfie can't do it anymore, but Spezza needs to step it up. And i dought he will. He's always been a center who needs someone to get the puck (alfie) and someone to shoot the puck (heater). Now he has who? Bobby Butler and Nikita Filatov? That makes Spezza the power on the line.

Nope.

Oh, Kesler isn't on the same page, skill-wise, but makes up for that with hip-busting effort.

If both players were combined, you'd have Crosby.

TOML is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2011, 11:54 PM
  #69
xking23
Petersson
 
xking23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Peterborough
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,313
vCash: 500
I am actually surprised it is this close. I thought with the "what have you done" mentality on these forums Kesler would be miles ahead. The fact that it is even close does say something. If Spezza were to play a full season with anyone really he'd be get 82 points. He is solidly PPG, those three higher years make up for his rookie years when he was in the dog house under Martin(IIRC). Kesler is an insane player. But he is much more suited the secondary center. Where "lesser" players on focused on him. Or more offensive players as opposed to the shut down guys. I think it is still close though, with a more Defensive Kesler who is working on his offense (PP went to #1 when he joined I heard) and an Offensive Spezza who is working on his defense (PK was insane since the trade deadline and he got his start time putting up a PK% of 92). Basically I see one as a player that makes others better (Spezza[If you disagree watch the team without him. Put anyway else with Greening and Butler and see how well the produce]) and the other is a two way force that can rack up points by playing his game (Kesler). Both solid players. But Spezza needs to rebreak out, stay healthy for one season and then it wont even be close (assuming this is a career year for Kesler, he might surprised and put up PPG and keep his physical play, well it will once again be much closer). But right now I have to assume Spezza can hold his PPG and keep up his solid defensive play.

xking23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2011, 12:15 AM
  #70
Do Make Say Think
Soul & Onward
 
Do Make Say Think's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 17,992
vCash: 500
I like how some people simply claim Spezza is awful defensively: he's not Kesler good, but he's still improved by leaps and bounds. He was absolutely amazing defensively to close out the season and also started the season playing very well (focusing on defense to the point where it hurt his point production)

The only issue I think that remains with Spezza is health: his back doesn't make it easy on him.

Do Make Say Think is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2011, 12:21 AM
  #71
Christina Woloski
Registered Something
 
Christina Woloski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Narnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,553
vCash: 500
I think Spezza is better offensively, Kesler defensively, but both pretty equivalently skilled.

With that said, I took Kesler because there is less of his types of talent in the league, so his skill set is more valuable.

Christina Woloski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2011, 12:24 AM
  #72
Gold Pads*
HE SHOOTS HE SCORES!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,039
vCash: 500
Kesler easy.

Gold Pads* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2011, 12:32 AM
  #73
Christina Woloski
Registered Something
 
Christina Woloski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Narnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
Spezza and Kesler may have had comparable linemates but consider that he plays against the other team's best players. Kesler wouldn't. And remind me how well he has done in the playoffs vs. Toews, Keith and Seabrook again?



Any more age old stereotypes you have for me?

Maybe actually watch hockey instead of just repeating what you've heard on the street. And if you don't want to watch other teams play, then don't, but don't try and act like you know half of anything about their players.
Wow.. You have absolutely NO clue whatsoever, do yah.

Christina Woloski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2011, 12:35 AM
  #74
Christina Woloski
Registered Something
 
Christina Woloski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Narnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamok View Post
Kesler's PPG this season: 0.89

Spezza's PPG this season: 0.92

Then consider that Spezza's linemates were Greening and Butler for the last quarter of the season, and it's not exactly surprising. Kesler's outscored Spezza due to durability, not offensive abilities.
HOW is durability NOT a trait people acknowledge??????!!


Honestly. One's ability to continuously play IS a factor just as their ability to shoot, pass, deke, hit, fight, etc.


Spezza's lack of durability makes him less of a player.

Christina Woloski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2011, 12:36 AM
  #75
Burrows19
Registered User
 
Burrows19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Kesler, not even a possible question in my mind. I would've thought it would be 85% Kesler.

Burrows19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:47 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.