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Nationwide Arena/CBJ Finances Discussion II

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Old
10-05-2011, 11:21 AM
  #226
BluejacketNut
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Well lets just hope Europe will figure out their mess with Greece and the other countries soon, since right now they seem to be the dog and we're the tail (since our market seems to be balancing on the EU issues). If it does spin off another mall, we're going to start to see the same effects the other malls have faced, city center, northland, westland, etc. My guess would be Tuttle would be the first to decay, then with the surrounding area, Easton could be next. B&M is just too costly to be have to compete against 4 major mall area's in a limited economy

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10-05-2011, 11:32 AM
  #227
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Information without opinion sucks.
This is America, dammit. Pick a side.

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10-05-2011, 11:34 AM
  #228
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Here are some additional notes on the Arena/casino agreement from Jeff Little at TMM blog:

http://tenminutemisconduct.com/2011/...ed-more/#entry

Some interesting clarifications, in there. Looks like win-win to me.

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10-05-2011, 11:54 AM
  #229
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Some of that will be sucked from other casinos. The IN locations across from Cincinnati will feel the effects as Columbus area people find it easier to stay close. You can bet the Casino interests will do everything they can to provide full service facilities. Hotel, restaurants, entertainment, spend it all there is the idea. While the overall impact to the broad area of Columbus may be a positive economically, my point about it's effect on an immediate smaller area, like the arena district remains valid.
I'm not even sure I was debating you on anything and based on this response, I'm even more convinced.

I don't want this silly thing by the arena district and it's not because of money being taken from other local businesses.

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10-05-2011, 11:58 AM
  #230
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I'm not even sure I was debating you on anything and based on this response, I'm even more convinced.

I don't want this silly thing by the arena district and it's not because of money being taken from other local businesses.
I agree.

And no, not a debate just a discussion. Some things I wanted to get out there and this was as good a time and place as any.

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10-05-2011, 12:01 PM
  #231
KallioWeHardlyKnewYe
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I agree.

And no, not a debate just a discussion. Some things I wanted to get out there and this was as good a time and place as any.
RRRRRRAAAARRRGHGHGGH!!!!

Just kidding.

Good discussion.

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10-05-2011, 12:17 PM
  #232
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May I point out how this scenario is an excellent representation of the American Democratic System?

The issue goes to a public vote (in a sense). It also goes to a vote by a smaller, presumably more highly educated group. The group's decision takes precedence over the public's decision.

Kind of like the electoral college. Not that I disagree with the result or even the system itself. Just kind of interesting.

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10-05-2011, 12:51 PM
  #233
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I have been to the Rivers Casino you are talking about right next door to Heinz Field and PNC. If I remember correctly, it was like there were bars and restaurants and stuff all around PNC, then you keep walking past Heinz and then at the very end away from everything is the casino. I thought its placement was perfect for pre/post game activity.

I went to the French Riviera for my honeymoon back in '08 and the streets are lined with beautiful locally owned shops, bars, and restaurants, and there is a casino in every single town along the train line on the sea. Such a difference in culture and mindset. Blows my mind.

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10-05-2011, 12:54 PM
  #234
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And no, not a debate just a discussion. Some things I wanted to get out there and this was as good a time and place as any.
Thanks, just wanted to make sure we weren't disagreeing on something and didn't know it.

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10-05-2011, 01:03 PM
  #235
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I have been to the Rivers Casino you are talking about right next door to Heinz Field and PNC. If I remember correctly, it was like there were bars and restaurants and stuff all around PNC, then you keep walking past Heinz and then at the very end away from everything is the casino. I thought its placement was perfect for pre/post game activity.
Indeed. If my post led folks to believe it was smack dab in the middle, then that's on me.



The bulk of the ancillary development is between PNC and Heinz. See the relative position of Stage AE here.

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl...3cf908b0fa32a8

Imagine the casino where the Giant Eagle on Neil Avenue is. That's about the distance from the "entertainment district".

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10-05-2011, 01:04 PM
  #236
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The issue goes to a public vote (in a sense). It also goes to a vote by a smaller, presumably more highly educated group.
Well welcome to a republic. Let's be honest, the political elites have been forcing things down peoples throats in ANY form of government. A truly democratic society has it's own issues that are, potentially, much larger. (This is as far as I am going, dangerously close to the no politics ban on what is a very political topic).

Having said that, to be fair a lot has changed from what was voted on back in the 90's to the conditions surrounding this. It probably still wouldn't have passed, but the funding mechanism is totally different and the cost of the arena is far cheaper. We also have an agreement to keep the team in Columbus until 2039. So it's way too simplistic to make that parallel.

I like how you said educated instead of intelligent.

Oh and you lost the parallel a bit with the electoral college addition. Doesn't have a whole lot to do with the elites and policy being forced down the publics throat.

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10-05-2011, 01:06 PM
  #237
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Thanks, just wanted to make sure we weren't disagreeing on something and didn't know it.
Nope.

I am pretty sure when we disagree on something we will both be acutely aware of it.


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10-05-2011, 01:09 PM
  #238
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Nope.

I am pretty sure when we disagree on something we will both be acutely aware of it.

lol, you would be surprised (actually, you may not) how many people think they are disagreeing with me (or I them), when in reality that isn't the case. The latest was just last week.

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10-05-2011, 01:44 PM
  #239
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lol, you would be surprised (actually, you may not) how many people think they are disagreeing with me (or I them), when in reality that isn't the case. The latest was just last week.
No it wasn't.

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10-05-2011, 06:50 PM
  #240
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No it wasn't.
lol, damn you dsl

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10-05-2011, 07:45 PM
  #241
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No it wasn't.
That made me LOL.

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10-05-2011, 11:47 PM
  #242
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That made me LOL.
Likewise.

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10-06-2011, 12:23 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
No it wasn't.
Nope...

As for this Casino/Columbus/CBJ marriage goes, in the end it's a good thing for Columbus...the city needs the CBJ.

My only beef is that I wanted the Casino in the Arena District and for the life of me can't understand how the powers to be could kick the Casino out of the best area in Columbus yet still get the tax money for the Arena District interests!

I hate double standards I guess, that said, in the end the folks in the Casino area will still get some tax benefits I guess... Those folks within 1/2 mile of the Casino should be offered at least 2 or 3 free CBJ tickets tho.

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10-06-2011, 08:00 AM
  #244
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Just to chime in here. Yes, there was local opposition to the Arena District site. Don't forget, though, that the casino developer also favored the move, as they wanted to have a hotel as part of the project, and the Arena site did not have enough land.

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10-06-2011, 08:17 AM
  #245
pete goegan
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Just to chime in here. Yes, there was local opposition to the Arena District site. Don't forget, though, that the casino developer also favored the move, as they wanted to have a hotel as part of the project, and the Arena site did not have enough land.
That's interesting! Wasn't one of the arguments the owners put out for getting more concessions from the city before applying for annexation that they played "good soldier" about the move and deserved compensation?

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10-31-2011, 03:55 PM
  #246
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This is getting closer to a done deal, I think

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/....html?page=all

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11-01-2011, 08:46 PM
  #247
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Kinda funny that the state of ohoho can find money for a pro sports team facility but not for school districts and teachers.

Congratulations to Nationwide, which seems to have pulled off the deal of the century... unloading the arena while still keeping the publicity it generates, sticking its hand into casino cash flow, all the while improving the surrounding property values -which Nationwide still owns. Pretty slick.

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11-01-2011, 09:15 PM
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAL View Post
Just to chime in here. Yes, there was local opposition to the Arena District site. Don't forget, though, that the casino developer also favored the move, as they wanted to have a hotel as part of the project, and the Arena site did not have enough land.
A new 500 bed Hilton is going up 400 yards from Nationwide Arena in the Arena District (AD) as I type, the Casino was banished from the AD because the locals didn't want riff raff in their playground; but the money from that riff raff in someone else's backyard is welcomed by those same locals..

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11-01-2011, 09:30 PM
  #249
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A new 500 bed Hilton is going up 400 yards from Nationwide Arena in the Arena District (AD) as I type, the Casino was banished from the AD because the locals didn't want riff raff in their playground; but the money from that riff raff in someone else's backyard is welcomed by those same locals..
fwiw, franklin county voters as a whole didn't want it, so pretty much anyone looking to have a say in where the $$ goes is kind of hypocritical.

wish it had been in the AD, though..made too much sense, I guess.

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11-01-2011, 09:37 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Kinda funny that the state of ohoho can find money for a pro sports team facility but not for school districts and teachers.

Congratulations to Nationwide, which seems to have pulled off the deal of the century... unloading the arena while still keeping the publicity it generates, sticking its hand into casino cash flow, all the while improving the surrounding property values -which Nationwide still owns. Pretty slick.
I think you mean county. The state's loan is a rather small part of this.

Also, I wouldn't discount Nationwide's ~$50m infusion as easily either, nor their obligation of risk if casino $$ doesn't live up to projections.

Is it so hard to believe that all sides gain something from this deal? Schools and services still get their same piece of the pie from the casino. Not sure I understand how this affects them in any way.

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