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Do most people actually believe the Oilers are tanking?

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Old
08-08-2011, 09:15 PM
  #76
Cawz
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Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
last year we tanked on purpose. We could have easily upgraded our defence by trading or signing somebody better then Strudwick.
Upgrading your 6th or 7th defenseman has very little to do with the success of your team.

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Old
08-08-2011, 09:19 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Cawz View Post
Upgrading your 6th or 7th defenseman has very little to do with the success of your team.
The point was we could have made trades to upgrade our team to compete but we did not because our plan was to develop young guys and get another high pick. Strudwick was there because he could mentor these guys with good attitude, he can't skate no more...

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08-08-2011, 09:21 PM
  #78
charliolemieux
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They Ain't Tankin'.


They Just Suck!!!!!
































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Old
08-08-2011, 09:23 PM
  #79
Megan Fox
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I don't understand the difference between "rebuilding" and "tanking".

Rebuilding in the NHL is when your team isn't very good by design in order to draft high, and save cap space for when you need it. Sound like tanking to me.

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08-08-2011, 09:24 PM
  #80
Cawz
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Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
The point was we could have made trades to upgrade our team to compete but we did not because our plan was to develop young guys and get another high pick. Strudwick was there because he could mentor these guys with good attitude, he can't skate no more...
If its really that easy to make trades to upgrade your team, why doesnt every team do that?

You are simplfying it way too much. If you want to make trades to upgrade your team, you have to have assets to trade for those upgrades. And if you do have assets, the other team would have to look at them as upgrades to their team.

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08-08-2011, 09:28 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Cawz View Post
If its really that easy to make trades to upgrade your team, why doesnt every team do that?

You are simplfying it way too much. If you want to make trades to upgrade your team, you have to have assets to trade for those upgrades. And if you do have assets, the other team would have to look at them as upgrades to their team.
Teams trade for the future too, no just to upgrade right away

We can sign two or three UFA on the market right now to upgrade our D without giving up squat.

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08-08-2011, 09:29 PM
  #82
Megan Fox
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Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
Teams trade for the future too, no just to upgrade right away

We can sign two or three UFA on the market right now to upgrade our D without giving up squat.
But you wont, because you might not get 1st overall in the draft again.

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08-08-2011, 09:30 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
Teams trade for the future too, no just to upgrade right away

We can sign two or three UFA on the market right now to upgrade our D without giving up squat.
I'll say it again, the Oilers aren't doing this intentionally, they just have extremely bad management.

Sure, you can go into the UFA market and get someone without giving up squat, how successful has that been for the Oilers so far?

Until management changes drastically they will not compete and they will continue to not develop their players.

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08-08-2011, 09:32 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Megan Fox View Post
But you wont, because you might not get 1st overall in the draft again.
I think we have too much talent now to end up 30th, we might get a top 5-10 and another building block so we can kick azz again like the eighties.

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08-08-2011, 09:34 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4EDM14OIL91 View Post
Wow. You are so clueless, it's called a rebuild. And how did Pittsburgh tank to get Crosby exactly?
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Originally Posted by shazariahl View Post
We had Pronger, he left. We tried to get Heatley, he refused. We offered him more money than San Jose too, but he still turned us down. Management made some poor decisions as well - we overpaid some of the players from our last cup run. Our #1 goaltender has been injured/having legal troubles, our best forwards have been injured, our #1 defenseman was injured. When you're missing your best forward, defenseman, and goaltender, how good can you honestly expect to be?

And honestly, what is the point of tanking multiple seasons? Sure you get more draft choices, which may or may not pan out, but you are also last in the league. It gets harder to sell tickets and merchandise, which costs the ownership money. There's no guarantee the draft picks will ever materialize into something good. And getting 2 or 3 high draft picks over a few years doesn't guarantee you'll be a better team (there are tons of teams that are just perpetually bad, despite drafting high).

This idea that the Oilers are bad deliberately is just stupid. They're just not a good team, and they've had key injuries on top of already being not very good. When and if they turn things around it won't be because they decided to "stop tanking", it'll be because they actually got healthy and got some better players. Some of those may come from the draft, but even Gretzky and Lemieux couldn't win cups until they had some talent with them. No one or 2 draft choices are going to turn a team around on their own.
Rebuild is a euphemism for tank. Think about it logically for one second, you know you can't win, so why spend to the cap (14mil from the cap)? Im not bashing on you for tanking, it has to be done, I just find it hilarious that you're trying to defend yourselves by saying you're not. The oilers are not trying to ice a competitive team as of right now, for example you guys traded Penner for Teubert and picks. You want to win in the future by trading for younger talent and drafting higher. Fans might not want to acknowledge that they're tanking, but management certainly seems to think so.

The oilers are also a strong hockey market, you guys have showed it over the last 2 years. The fans will still buy merchandise and attend games even if you finish last. I honestly don't see what's so bad about tanking. You guys need to get better and drafting high is the fastest way. How a team that is rebuilding can be so bad as to finish last 2 times in a row and most likely be a bottom 5 pick this year is beyond me. These "perpetually" bad teams all have problems (NYI, PHO, FLA) with ownership either changing or not willing to spend to win. Edmonton doesn't have that problem and could easily acquire "stop gap" pieces to at least ice a competitive team. This is all just my opinion, but especially after watching oil change, even the coaches and players know that their job isnt to win, but to improve. At least that's the overall feeling I took away from that

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Old
08-08-2011, 09:34 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealdeal View Post
I'll say it again, the Oilers aren't doing this intentionally, they just have extremely bad management.

Sure, you can go into the UFA market and get someone without giving up squat, how successful has that been for the Oilers so far?

Until management changes drastically they will not compete and they will continue to not develop their players.
your half right, the bad management is what got us into this mess but they are getting better with Tambo and he's not making stupid mistakes like Milbury did with all the high picks they had.

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08-08-2011, 09:36 PM
  #87
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They aren't tanking...their management is just incompetent.

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08-08-2011, 09:36 PM
  #88
Megan Fox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
I think we have too much talent now to end up 30th, we might get a top 5-10 and another building block so we can kick azz again like the eighties.
That certainly doesn't sound familiar.

Anyhoo, you know your team is tanking when your fans are debating Hall/Seguin, or RNH/Coutourier before the season even starts.

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08-08-2011, 09:37 PM
  #89
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Big time tankers

They're definitely going for #3 this year

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08-08-2011, 09:40 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Marian Hossa, Brian Rafalski, Dominik Hasek, Curtis Joseph all say hi. And that's just off the top of my head.
uh, Dominik Hasek, Curtis Joseph where before the lockout... Brian Rafalski didn't really take a pay cut either. Hossa is the only guy...

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08-08-2011, 09:43 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
Big time tankers

They're definitely going for #3 this year
If it happens it happens but we have a plan and were sticking to it. Unlike burke who's flopped in different directions.

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08-08-2011, 09:52 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Rich0591 View Post
Which team finished last?
What team finished 10th in the west and instead of getting Nugent-Hopkins, Larsson, or Landeskog, got far from a sure thing in Bartschi? What highly-touted 2010 prospect fell to 13th overall and what team traded away that pick? What teams blue-chip prospects don't even want to play for them? What team got recently shunned recently by Brad Richards (and even Ryan Smyth)? What team is in year 2 of another possible 7+ year playoff drought with an aging core, no prospects and a future looking so grim that the only solace their fans can take from their current situation is loudly bragging about finishing higher than the 30th-place team while they still can?

So...yeah!

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08-08-2011, 10:04 PM
  #93
Megan Fox
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Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
What team finished 10th in the west and instead of getting Nugent-Hopkins, Larsson, or Landeskog, got far from a sure thing in Bartschi? What highly-touted 2010 prospect fell to 13th overall and what team traded away that pick? What teams blue-chip prospects don't even want to play for them? What team got recently shunned recently by Brad Richards (and even Ryan Smyth)? What team is in year 2 of another possible 7+ year playoff drought with an aging core, no prospects and a future looking so grim that the only solace their fans can take from their current situation is loudly bragging about finishing higher than the 30th-place team while they still can?

So...yeah!

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Old
08-08-2011, 10:09 PM
  #94
Cawz
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Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
Teams trade for the future too, no just to upgrade right away

We can sign two or three UFA on the market right now to upgrade our D without giving up squat.
Like who? And are they good enought and fit with the team well enough for us to leave some of the younger players unprotected to send down?

Our last 2 UFA dman signings were Souray and Foster (unless I'm forgetting someone). That doesnt seem like the proper route to go.

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Old
08-08-2011, 10:13 PM
  #95
Cawz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auger View Post
Rebuild is a euphemism for tank. Think about it logically for one second, you know you can't win, so why spend to the cap (14mil from the cap)? Im not bashing on you for tanking, it has to be done, I just find it hilarious that you're trying to defend yourselves by saying you're not. The oilers are not trying to ice a competitive team as of right now, for example you guys traded Penner for Teubert and picks. You want to win in the future by trading for younger talent and drafting higher. Fans might not want to acknowledge that they're tanking, but management certainly seems to think so.

The oilers are also a strong hockey market, you guys have showed it over the last 2 years. The fans will still buy merchandise and attend games even if you finish last. I honestly don't see what's so bad about tanking. You guys need to get better and drafting high is the fastest way. How a team that is rebuilding can be so bad as to finish last 2 times in a row and most likely be a bottom 5 pick this year is beyond me. These "perpetually" bad teams all have problems (NYI, PHO, FLA) with ownership either changing or not willing to spend to win. Edmonton doesn't have that problem and could easily acquire "stop gap" pieces to at least ice a competitive team. This is all just my opinion, but especially after watching oil change, even the coaches and players know that their job isnt to win, but to improve. At least that's the overall feeling I took away from that
So hey should aquire stop-gap pieces like Neidermeyer, Chara, Nylander, Hossa, Jagr, Malholtra, Heatley,... (who am I missing here)?

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Old
08-08-2011, 10:18 PM
  #96
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I've been an Oilers fan my whole life, I don't think we were expecting it to work so 'well' but the way Tambellini has made our roster... It's hard not to call him out for purposely tanking.

We've needed a third line center for 3 years and we FINALLY got one this season, they're not that hard to get - lets be honest.

There was obvious holes that we didn't address but I honestly don't think we intended to end up in last two years in a row, it just kinda happened.

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Old
08-08-2011, 10:19 PM
  #97
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Again it's not so much the number of injuries as it is the players who were I injured. I have no doubt that those teams didn't lose their number one goalie number one defenseman and only capable 1 st liners all at once for extended periods of time.
Nashville after the first month of play lost Rinne, Suter, Erat and O'Reilly who was their leading scorer at the time.

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08-08-2011, 10:21 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Cawz View Post
Like who? And are they good enought and fit with the team well enough for us to leave some of the younger players unprotected to send down?

Our last 2 UFA dman signings were Souray and Foster (unless I'm forgetting someone). That doesnt seem like the proper route to go.
Bryan McCabe
Scott Hannan
Craig Rivet
Chris Campoli

most of these guys would make us better, ya i know they are washed up but they would still help us right away.

all the other UFA that we could have threw money at that have resigned (please don't make me list them).

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08-08-2011, 10:21 PM
  #99
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If the Oilers were tanking, then I'd say that they were not alone. However, if they were, their work has been partly accomplished by something that can happen even to the best teams: injuries.

And, in today's NHL, where a single extra win (or loss) can mean a couple draft positions up or down, tanking would mostly come down to the stretch after the trade deadline.

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Old
08-08-2011, 10:27 PM
  #100
Cawz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Fox View Post
I don't understand the difference between "rebuilding" and "tanking".

Rebuilding in the NHL is when your team isn't very good by design in order to draft high, and save cap space for when you need it. Sound like tanking to me.
Interesting question. I think "rebuilding" is when you get to a stage where you dont have the assets to improve on the holes in your team, and the holes are such that they cant be adequately filled with UFA signings. Because lets face it - good UFA players dont usually sign with rebuilding teams, unless the rebuild is almost finished. The rebuilding stage is usually well underway by the time the team admits to it, and by that time, they are bad enough that any "tanking" isnt done by design.

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