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Flyers Top 20 Prospects, #9

View Poll Results: 9th best Flyers prospect?
Kevin Marshall 14 17.50%
Marc-Andre Bourdon 0 0%
Joonas Lehtivuori 2 2.50%
Mike Testwuide 11 13.75%
Marcel Noebels 4 5.00%
Petr Placek 0 0%
Jason Akeson 9 11.25%
Brandon Manning 3 3.75%
Nick Cousins 18 22.50%
Zac Rinaldo 8 10.00%
Jon Kalinski 0 0%
Oliver Lauridsen 10 12.50%
Tye McGinn 1 1.25%
Michael Parks 0 0%
Colin Suellentrop 0 0%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-10-2011, 12:06 PM
  #1
BillyShoe1721
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Flyers Top 20 Prospects, #9

1. C Brayden Schenn, (76.58%)
2. C Sean Couturier, (so obvious not even doing a poll)
3. D Erik Gustafsson(71.19%)
4. LW Eric Wellwood(41.98%)
5. F Matt Read(23.53%
6. C Ben Holmstrom(29.23%)
7. LW Brendan Ranford (25.00%)
8. LW Tom Sestito (33.90%)
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

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08-10-2011, 12:22 PM
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Haute Couturier
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Cousins.

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08-10-2011, 12:24 PM
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Testwuide. i think hes the most NHL ready of any of the guys left.

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08-10-2011, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Cousins.
Can someone explain the love for Cousins? I don't know much about the kid but is it just a product of a shallow prospect pool?

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08-10-2011, 01:29 PM
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Can someone explain the love for Cousins? I don't know much about the kid but is it just a product of a shallow prospect pool?
Simple. The kid is flat out talented. As a 17 year old, he was a point per game player with one of the worst teams in the OHL. On top of it, in the World Under 18 tournament, he was one of Team Canada's best players. He's relentless, he can score, he can skate and he's a bit of a pest to play against. The only drawback against Cousins is that he's on the smaller side (5'10, 169 pounds). He's also a center that will more than likely be moved to the wing. However, this is a real good hockey player and he's one of those guys who improves every year. There's no reason to believe that he can't step up his game even more.

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08-10-2011, 01:54 PM
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I also voted for cousins and have been because i'm going mostly by ceiling. what i don't get is how testwuide will probably end up at 10 or 11 and holmstrom is 6th. testwuide is much bigger and was considered by many as NHL ready last year. he had some of the best numbers on the phantoms last season, certainly better then holmstroms. testwuide can also play up and down a lineup whereas holmstrom considered strictly a 4th liner. not belittling holmstrom just more so saying testwuide should be at least in the same vicinity if not above holmstrom imo.

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08-10-2011, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Simple. The kid is flat out talented. As a 17 year old, he was a point per game player with one of the worst teams in the OHL. On top of it, in the World Under 18 tournament, he was one of Team Canada's best players. He's relentless, he can score, he can skate and he's a bit of a pest to play against. The only drawback against Cousins is that he's on the smaller side (5'10, 169 pounds). He's also a center that will more than likely be moved to the wing. However, this is a real good hockey player and he's one of those guys who improves every year. There's no reason to believe that he can't step up his game even more.
hes got blazing speed and pretty good hands...

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08-10-2011, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
I also voted for cousins and have been because i'm going mostly by ceiling. what i don't get is how testwuide will probably end up at 10 or 11 and holmstrom is 6th. testwuide is much bigger and was considered by many as NHL ready last year. he had some of the best numbers on the phantoms last season, certainly better then holmstroms. testwuide can also play up and down a lineup whereas holmstrom considered strictly a 4th liner. not belittling holmstrom just more so saying testwuide should be at least in the same vicinity if not above holmstrom imo.
Akeson (and Manning and Lehtivuori if we include defensemen) and even Pither have higher ceilings than Cousins.

Cousins though is more likely to reach his ceiling. I like to believe he can be a very good third line center, maybe push for a second line center spot if he makes the NHL. Of course, making the NHL is the big step, and a top 6 role might be a reach.

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08-10-2011, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Clerk View Post
Can someone explain the love for Cousins? I don't know much about the kid but is it just a product of a shallow prospect pool?
He is one of our few junior aged prospects and his upside is greater than our collection of 4th line talent in the AHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Akeson (and Manning and Lehtivuori if we include defensemen) and even Pither have higher ceilings than Cousins.

Cousins though is more likely to reach his ceiling. I like to believe he can be a very good third line center, maybe push for a second line center spot if he makes the NHL. Of course, making the NHL is the big step, and a top 6 role might be a reach.
I don't think any of the prospects you named have a higher ceiling than Cousins. Akeson, Pither, and Manning had impressive numbers in juniors, but they were doing it as overaged prospects. The expectations for them should be less due to their age.

Cousins is better than Pither and Akeson when they were his age. Akeson didn't do much of anything in his short stint in the OHL during his draft year. Pither only had 28 points during his draft year. He wasn't a PPG player until two years later.

It's hard to compare forwards to defenseman, but Manning wasn't good enough for the WHL until he was 18, a year after he was first eligible for the draft.

Lehtivuori? Yeah right. He's only had one decent season.

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08-10-2011, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I don't think any of the prospects you named have a higher ceiling than Cousins. Akeson, Pither, and Manning had impressive numbers in juniors, but they were doing it as overaged prospects. The expectations for them should be less due to their age.

Cousins is better than Pither and Akeson when they were his age. Akeson didn't do much of anything in his short stint in the OHL during his draft year. Pither only had 28 points during his draft year. He wasn't a PPG player until two years later.

It's hard to compare forwards to defenseman, but Manning wasn't good enough for the WHL until he was 18, a year after he was first eligible for the draft.

Lehtivuori? Yeah right. He's only had one decent season.
Akeson has incredible vision. I think you underestimate that.

Pither is an offensive powerhouse that will never reach his potential for quite a number of reasons.

Cousins is not as talented as them. That doesn't mean he won't be the better player in the end, but I'm not sure you understand the definition of potential.

Lehtivuori had an absolutely dominant outing as a professional. I don't think you're aware of just how good he was that season. It's a shame that he seemed to really hate Adirondack, enough to basically forfeit his potential NHL career. Top 4 was not out of the question for him. In fact, Lehtivuori could have become one of those special defensemen who can calm a game down completely. Top 4 also isn't out of the question for Manning, who has a steady, physical two-way game. (of course only in comparison i.e. top 4 defenseman = top 6 forward)

I don't see Cousins with that kind of POTENTIAL.


As I've said before, outside of Schenn and Couturier, the only forwards the Flyers have that could become more than good third liners are Ranford and Akeson just because I'm very positive Pither does not have it in him. Even then, both Ranford and Akeson have flaws that will hold them back.

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08-10-2011, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Akeson has incredible vision. I think you underestimate that.

Pither is an offensive powerhouse that will never reach his potential for quite a number of reasons.

Cousins is not as talented as them. That doesn't mean he won't be the better player in the end, but I'm not sure you understand the definition of potential.

Lehtivuori had an absolutely dominant outing as a professional. I don't think you're aware of just how good he was that season. It's a shame that he seemed to really hate Adirondack, enough to basically forfeit his potential NHL career. Top 4 was not out of the question for him. In fact, Lehtivuori could have become one of those special defensemen who can calm a game down completely. Top 4 also isn't out of the question for Manning, who has a steady, physical two-way game. (of course only in comparison i.e. top 4 defenseman = top 6 forward)

I don't see Cousins with that kind of POTENTIAL.


As I've said before, outside of Schenn and Couturier, the only forwards the Flyers have that could become more than good third liners are Ranford and Akeson just because I'm very positive Pither does not have it in him. Even then, both Ranford and Akeson have flaws that will hold them back.
Akeson >>> Pither

im sick of the overage argument people make against akeson (not directed at you)...He's put up very good numbers for his career, but more importantly is just a really "smart" player.

look for him to impress.

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08-10-2011, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Akeson (and Manning and Lehtivuori if we include defensemen) and even Pither have higher ceilings than Cousins.

Cousins though is more likely to reach his ceiling. I like to believe he can be a very good third line center, maybe push for a second line center spot if he makes the NHL. Of course, making the NHL is the big step, and a top 6 role might be a reach.

while i did say i was voting based on ceiling i should have said i was basing my vote heavily on potential AND the likelihood of reaching that potential. i meant to point out that i am not taking into account who is the most nhl ready more so then anything else. sorry for the confusion.

with that said i can't wait to see how akeson does in the ahl.

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08-10-2011, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
He is one of our few junior aged prospects and his upside is greater than our collection of 4th line talent in the AHL.



I don't think any of the prospects you named have a higher ceiling than Cousins. Akeson, Pither, and Manning had impressive numbers in juniors, but they were doing it as overaged prospects. The expectations for them should be less due to their age.

Cousins is better than Pither and Akeson when they were his age. Akeson didn't do much of anything in his short stint in the OHL during his draft year. Pither only had 28 points during his draft year. He wasn't a PPG player until two years later.

It's hard to compare forwards to defenseman, but Manning wasn't good enough for the WHL until he was 18, a year after he was first eligible for the draft.

Lehtivuori? Yeah right. He's only had one decent season.
He tore up the CJHL though and hit the ground running in the O at 18. We're severely devaluing this guy because he didn't get his chance at 17 and arrived on the scene a single year late? That's a lot different than an overager who did nothing until he turned 20 and hit 200 pounds.

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08-11-2011, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Akeson has incredible vision. I think you underestimate that.

Pither is an offensive powerhouse that will never reach his potential for quite a number of reasons.

Cousins is not as talented as them. That doesn't mean he won't be the better player in the end, but I'm not sure you understand the definition of potential.

Lehtivuori had an absolutely dominant outing as a professional. I don't think you're aware of just how good he was that season. It's a shame that he seemed to really hate Adirondack, enough to basically forfeit his potential NHL career. Top 4 was not out of the question for him. In fact, Lehtivuori could have become one of those special defensemen who can calm a game down completely. Top 4 also isn't out of the question for Manning, who has a steady, physical two-way game. (of course only in comparison i.e. top 4 defenseman = top 6 forward)

I don't see Cousins with that kind of POTENTIAL.


As I've said before, outside of Schenn and Couturier, the only forwards the Flyers have that could become more than good third liners are Ranford and Akeson just because I'm very positive Pither does not have it in him. Even then, both Ranford and Akeson have flaws that will hold them back.
You're forgetting all 30 teams didn't even deem Akeson worthy of a 7th draft pick. That's not to say it is proof he won't make it, but it should temper expectations of him.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't consider a prospect who has one great offensive season as a 20 year old junior to be an "offensive powerhouse." That aside, if Pither could dominate as a 20 year old in junior, then one would believe Cousins has the potential to do so considering he is a much better prospect than Pither was as a 17 year old. Pither was fairly unimpressive, finishing with 28 points in 52 games (.54 ppg) as a 17 year old. Cousins finished at a point per game, with 68 points in 68 games. There's no reason to believe Cousins won't improve the way Pither did. Cousin's potential and ceiling is much greater than Pither's ever was.

I completely understand the definition of potential, but thanks for your concern.


I understand how good Lehtivuori was during his 19 year old season, but the fact remains he hasn't come close since. His ceiling is much lower than it was when he was 19. It is unlikely he will ever develop into a NHL caliber top 4 defender as his offensive game hasn't developed and he's not good enough defensively.


Cousins certainly does have that kind of potential. He is a much better prospect than any of these players were when they were his age. He is even better than Ranford was as a 17 year old. I gave Ranford the slight edge, but I think Cousins has the chance to be better. I think Cousins is a lot more likely to carve out a regular role in the NHL than Akeson, Pither, and Ranford. I think he has the chance to be a decent second liner or a very good third liner.

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08-11-2011, 12:37 PM
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how does a kid with "incredible vision" go undrafted for each year he was draft eligible. People constantly get caught up in looking at junior numbers and think it translates into immediate top 6 NHL success.
Kids like Akeson, Read and Ranford are overrated around here.
Speaking of overrated, Kevin Marshall. Kid was drafted 4 years ago and has yet to show any level of improvement at the AHL level. Marshall is headed for bustville.


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08-11-2011, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Akeson >>> Pither

im sick of the overage argument people make against akeson (not directed at you)...He's put up very good numbers for his career, but more importantly is just a really "smart" player.

look for him to impress.
The fact is age matters. A 17 year finishing with 100+ points in junior is a lot more likely to make it than a 20 year old. That's why the 17 year old would be in the running for the first overall pick while the 20 year old goes undrafted. His ceiling is so much lower.



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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
He tore up the CJHL though and hit the ground running in the O at 18. We're severely devaluing this guy because he didn't get his chance at 17 and arrived on the scene a single year late? That's a lot different than an overager who did nothing until he turned 20 and hit 200 pounds.
He tore up Junior A....and went undrafted. He hit the ground running...and went undrafted.

It's not about devaluing him. It's about having realistic expectations. How many junior players that aren't good enough for the CHL during their draft year go on to make an impact in the NHL?

I also happen to think Cousins is better because he is much more impressive than Akeson was at the same age. If he continues to develop there is no reason to think he won't continue to be better.

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08-11-2011, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
how does a kid with "incredible vision" go undrafted for each year he was draft eligible. People constantly get caught up in looking at junior numbers and think it translates into immediate top 6 NHL success.
Kids like Akeson, Read and Ranford are overrated around here.
Speaking of overrated Kevin Marshall. Kid was drafted 4 years ago and has yet to show any level of improvement at the AHL level. Marshall is headed for bustville.
Defensemen do take longer to groom, but I agree he is running out of time. MAB is only 6 months younger and he is headed in the same direction. We'll see how camp plays out I guess but I see those 2 as 9 and 10 on the depth chart.

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08-11-2011, 01:11 PM
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Defensemen do take longer to groom, but I agree he is running out of time. MAB is only 6 months younger and he is headed in the same direction. We'll see how camp plays out I guess but I see those 2 as 9 and 10 on the depth chart.
yeah I know it takes defenseman a little while to grow as players but you look for young players to take that next step in improvement at some point and he has yet to show it. Yeah he isnt on a very good team but still. You want your prospects to show you why you drafted them. Especially a kid drafted in the 2nd round. A kid who you moved up in the draft for as well.

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08-12-2011, 07:09 AM
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Speaking of overrated, Kevin Marshall. Kid was drafted 4 years ago and has yet to show any level of improvement at the AHL level. Marshall is headed for bustville.
Exactly. His story reminds me of Jeff Woywitka. Will turn into a marginal NHLer at best.

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08-12-2011, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
You're forgetting all 30 teams didn't even deem Akeson worthy of a 7th draft pick.
What about Gustaffson? He was undrafted and he's our 3rd ranked prospect. There were a lot of undrafted players who went on to become good and even great players.

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08-12-2011, 12:32 PM
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Tom Sesito as a prospect in the top 10 is quite hilarious. He's not really much more than a replacement for Carcillo. Marcel Noebels, Nick Cousins should easily be higher on this list.

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08-12-2011, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
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You're forgetting all 30 teams didn't even deem Akeson worthy of a 7th draft pick. That's not to say it is proof he won't make it, but it should temper expectations of him.
You're forgetting, but most of those 30 teams wanted to sign him after he became a free agent.

I understand your reservations. I have quite a few myself. I'm not nearly as high on Akeson as others around here are.

That said, your claims that Cousins has more POTENTIAL than him is still just as incredible to me. Let's see what Cousins can do with another season.

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08-13-2011, 02:29 PM
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He tore up Junior A....and went undrafted. He hit the ground running...and went undrafted.

It's not about devaluing him. It's about having realistic expectations. How many junior players that aren't good enough for the CHL during their draft year go on to make an impact in the NHL?

I also happen to think Cousins is better because he is much more impressive than Akeson was at the same age. If he continues to develop there is no reason to think he won't continue to be better.
Martin St. Louis went undrafted and went on to be the best player in the league in '03-'04. It happens to smaller guys (Akeson is no giant). Hockey players are drafted so young that it's a huge crapshoot. We're not at the stage where we're talking about top prospects. It's just crazy to me that Akeson gets the Pither treatment when he put up 64 in 56 games as an 18 year old.

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