enstrom, byfuglien, and hainsey are already there, and if bogosian plays like he's shown he can for a consistent period of time so is he.
None of those guys are "AHL players ready to make the jump". Sounds like the OP is simply trying cut bait on a guy that he feels his team doesn't need by selling him as a top 4 guy to the poor, lowly Isles.
None of those guys are "AHL players ready to make the jump". Sounds like the OP is simply trying cut bait on a guy that he feels his team doesn't need by selling him as a top 4 guy to the poor, lowly Isles.
Postma and Kulda were the AHL players I was speaking about. I never mentioned about either of them making Winnipeg's top 4 though. Our top 4 will be Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogo and Hainsey. The 5 and 6 will be Oduya and Stuart. Most likely Jones, Postma and Kulda will fight for the 7th spot. I'd just prefer to see Postma or Kulda with Stuart, rahter than Oduya in that role. IMO Just because he's not in the Jets top 4, doesn't mean he can't play in a top 4 role somewhere else.
Paradise, I don't think Snow would have any interest in him unless we're talking about a 6th rounder going the other way in the form of a salary dump.
If Winnipeg is interested, it could ask for the rights to Jesse Joensuu who is an RFA, is big-bodied and doesn't seem to have a future here. He has already served as a depth forward, but has currently signed with a Swedish club rather than play in the AHL on a two-way deal. He was qualified.
Those are the possibilities I see.
I do think Oduya is better than his former teammate Mike Mottau, so they could be swapped if Winnipeg would see that benefit in being that Mottau is earning almost 2 million less.
I don't however see any deal where the Islanders can directly assist Winnipeg with a top 9 winger at this juncture. Just be happy Gregoire slipped away from us.:-)
Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 08-10-2011 at 10:52 AM.
Postma and Kulda were the AHL players I was speaking about. I never mentioned about either of them making Winnipeg's top 4 though. Our top 4 will be Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogo and Hainsey. The 5 and 6 will be Oduya and Stuart. Most likely Jones, Postma and Kulda will fight for the 7th spot. I'd just prefer to see Postma or Kulda with Stuart, rahter than Oduya in that role. IMO Just because he's not in the Jets top 4, doesn't mean he can't play in a top 4 role somewhere else.
Gotcha. Anyway, the problem with third pairing guys that could be used in a top 4 role in a pinch is that basically every team has them.
Paradise, I don't think Snow would have any interest in him unless we're talking about a 6th rounder going the other way in the form of a value dump.
If Winnipeg is interested, it could ask for the rights to Jesse Joensuu who is an UFA, is big-bodied and doesn't seem to have a future here. He has already served as a depth forward, but has currently signed with a Swedish club rather than play in the AHL on a two-way deal. He was qualified.
Those are the possibilities I see.
I do think Oduya is better than his former teammate Mike Mottau, so they could be swapped if Winnipeg would see that benefit being that Mottau is earning almost 2 million less.
I don't however see any deal where the Islanders can directly assist Winnipeg with a top 9 winger at this juncture. Just be happy Gregoire slipped away from us.:-)
Winnipeg doesn't need to clear salary, so I don't see a deal involving a 6th rounder. We'll probably just hold onto him until the trade deadline and hope his value has risen.
Thank you to the posters who were kind enough to answer my questions
Winnipeg doesn't need to clear salary, so I don't see a deal involving a 6th rounder. We'll probably just hold onto him until the trade deadline and hope his value has risen.
Thank you to the posters who were kind enough to answer my questions
I really like Oduya, I just don't see him being better than Eaton, Mottau, or Jurcina here (Bottom pairing quality dmen for us) I think most posters here want a top 4 guy to add to Streit., Mac and Hamonic. Plus we just had a blow of losing a vote for a new Coli, so understand tensions are high here. Please don't take any ill will from us. I guess what I am saying is he doesn't look like a fit here.
I know he had a down year, nobody's disputing that. I also think he can improve from last season. He's a smooth skater and can still provide 20+ min a night. IMO Winnipeg is likely to let him eat up Cap space, hoping he improves, and then trade him at the deadline. I just though he could be useful to the Islanders
If the Isles take anyone that's a borderline top-4, it'd have to be an absolute bone-cruncher -- something that their D is really lacking. If they take a player that's not known for being physical, it'd have to be a clear-cut top-2. Hopefully what they end up with is something in between -- a clear top-4 d-man that's more of a stay-at-home physical presence.
The smooth-skating, active stick clogging the lane, non-physical d-man is something the Isles maybe have too much of, both on the team and in the system, as evidenced by them letting Hillen walk this offseason.
If the Isles take anyone that's a borderline top-4, it'd have to be an absolute bone-cruncher -- something that their D is really lacking. If they take a player that's not known for being physical, it'd have to be a clear-cut top-2. Hopefully what they end up with is something in between -- a clear top-4 d-man that's more of a stay-at-home physical presence.
The smooth-skating, active stick clogging the lane, non-physical d-man is something the Isles maybe have too much of, both on the team and in the system, as evidenced by them letting Hillen walk this offseason.
+1, if they don't get a Dman who will slide everyone past Hamonic down the depth chart then they need to get a Dman with size and snarl.
No offense to you, but I choose not to answer your condescending remarks. I only asked if he had value to the NYI and what that value might be. If you don't consider him a top 4 d-man, then that's fine. All I'm looking for is comments that pertain to my initial question. Your opinion didn't answer anything for me
so your initial question pertained to us needing a Top 4 D-man and what value Oduya would have to us.
I questioned how exactly Oduya would be a Top 4 D-man on the team and fill that need (which you somehow take as being condescending?) and went on to explain why exactly he's not, given our current D corps, and somehow that doesnt pertain to your initial question?
Big Big Islander fan here and I got to say I really doubt Snow gets anything more than a Johnny Oduya or a Ron Hainsey type D-guy in a trade for a draft pick. Oduya is coming off a bad year with Atlanta but without a doubt he was a top 4 D-man with the Devils. Snow is not going to trade away his top prospects for a stud D-man. I also want to point out that Oduya is 100 times better than Jack Hillen. Another guy I can see Snow trying to get for around a 3rd round pick is someone like a Marc Andre Gragnani a guy who is just coming into his own that was great in the playoffs for Buffalo and is on the verge of running an NHL powerplay. Otherwise if there is not a trade to be had for a 2nd-4th round pick I think Snow will sign Bryan McCabe or Scott Hannan. Islanders can be a playoff team next season but they need to keep there core together as well as there top prospects. Calvin Dehaan and Matt Donovan might be ready by the half way point in the season and might be able to make an impact with the Islanders so we have some stud D-men on the way. We just need to be a little more patient!
Winnipeg doesn't need to clear salary, so I don't see a deal involving a 6th rounder. We'll probably just hold onto him until the trade deadline and hope his value has risen.
Thank you to the posters who were kind enough to answer my questions
No prob.... You're plan seems most logical from a Jets standpoint. Either he gets back on track and helps out or he becomes trade bate at some point in the course of the season.
By the way, that post of mine was full of errors (salary dump instead of value dump, RFA instead of UFA), but it was realllll late my time when I wrote it.
Oduya for Casey Cizikas (or Joensuu) and Mikko Koskinen? Koskinen is behind Poulin at goalie, and Winnipeg is this deal would rid themselves of Oduya's contract and make room for Postma.
Oduya for Casey Cizikas (or Joensuu) and Mikko Koskinen? Koskinen is behind Poulin at goalie, and Winnipeg is this deal would rid themselves of Oduya's contract and make room for Postma.
Why would the Islanders give up significant prospects for a player like Oduya? Don't expect more than a 3rd round pick in return for him.
Oduya for Casey Cizikas (or Joensuu) and Mikko Koskinen? Koskinen is behind Poulin at goalie, and Winnipeg is this deal would rid themselves of Oduya's contract and make room for Postma.
Winnipeg doesn't need to clear salary, so I don't see a deal involving a 6th rounder. We'll probably just hold onto him until the trade deadline and hope his value has risen.
Right, but if you really want to play the young guys it won't.
No personal offense intended (as you didn't intend any to us), but we're kind of used to this treatment. Oduya isn't worth Comeau or Bailey, which is which is what I suspect you're fishing for.
Oduya for Casey Cizikas (or Joensuu) and Mikko Koskinen? Koskinen is behind Poulin at goalie, and Winnipeg is this deal would rid themselves of Oduya's contract and make room for Postma.
No offense to you, but I choose not to answer your condescending remarks. I only asked if he had value to the NYI and what that value might be. If you don't consider him a top 4 d-man, then that's fine. All I'm looking for is comments that pertain to my initial question. Your opinion didn't answer anything for me
Okay then, here are your answers from Isles fans:
- No he has no value (and if you're aksing what the value would be: 6th rounder max)
- And no, we do not consider him a Top 4 D-Man.
I don't know how other fans around the league see him (Canadians must have a certain appreciation after his performance at the WJC and his having captained a team that barely lost the OHL final in OT of game 7 and then barely lost in the Memorial Cup final), but it seems universally accepted that he will be an NHLer in some capacity and that he can do a bit of everything.
They're pegging him as a 3rd line center, but kind of like Madden in his finest day.
Short of some deal for a guy like Doughty, I simply cannot see Cizikas being moved.
In addition, his being here may be a chief reason why Snow COULD allow himself to part with a Bailey or Nielsen if the right move comes along. There was a thread over at the trade suggestion board where a Buffalo fan suggested Bailey, Cizikas and a 1st (I believe) for Sekera, Morrisson and D prospect Biega. One could truly scoff, because sending one of our young centers away without Cizikas filling in that position over the long run would defeat the purpose.
I don't know if Oduya simply doesn't play as well as he did in Jersey because of the confines of that system and the comfort zones it allows for certain players. He seems to have 'benefitted' from being a Devil, and less so while being a Thrasher.
If the asking price WERE simply the rights to Joensuu, then I'd have to think this is something Snow would consider at least.
Again, it appears the Jets can easily go into the season with him as part of the equation and move him for something (anything) if he doesn't work out.
I don't know how other fans around the league see him (Canadians must have a certain appreciation after his performance at the WJC and his having captained a team that barely lost the OHL final in OT of game 7 and then barely lost in the Memorial Cup final), but it seems universally accepted that he will be an NHLer in some capacity and that he can do a bit of everything.
I think some of us have Justin Mapletoft in our head when we hear about Cizikas. I want to wait and see. Still, I agree here - we shouldn't trade away our organizational depth at center till we know what's going to happen with Nielsen and Bailey. What started out a strength could turn, pretty quickly, into a weakness.
