HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Unofficial Offseason Trade Rumor/Proposal Thread | Part VII

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-10-2011, 09:45 PM
  #1
Spawn
Registered User
 
Spawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,931
vCash: 500
Unofficial Offseason Trade Rumor/Proposal Thread | Part VII

Last thread is nearing the limit. Continue in here.

Spawn is offline  
Old
08-10-2011, 10:00 PM
  #2
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 54,958
vCash: 500
Carrying on from the last thread.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
Yeah I think Staal is a little overrated on HF but even I can admit as a big Gagner fan that I'd take Staal over him without much pause. But Pittsburgh would ask for an insane price to aqcuire him. Would I trade Gagner+Hemsky for Staal? Hell no. Unless Hemsky was refusing to sign a contract with us.
That is the unknown. That or he wants too much $, IMO one is just as bad as the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tv14 View Post
Of course hes not any of those. But that wasnt my point. My point was how Gagner gets crucified here for not "progressing" and lots want him out because they dont think he will improve much. Yet Staal, puts up very similar offensive numbers and is hailed a number one center stuck behind Crosby and Malkin.

It really wasnt a comparison between the two players (Id prefer Staal FWIW), but more of a comparison between the differing opinions people have about them and the clear and obvious double standard.
I don't see Staal as a #1 center, not even close. Nor do I see Gagner as a #1 center, I just see Staal as a better fit behind RNH than Gagner is/will be AINEC IMO.

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is offline  
Old
08-10-2011, 11:30 PM
  #3
McBooya42
Have a McDavid day!
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,872
vCash: 50
Quote:
Fair enough. For what its worth I think he's better than Horcoff.
Greasy - I 100% agree with you on that!

McBooya42 is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 12:30 AM
  #4
Gobo
What's Your Issue?
 
Gobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Wild Rose Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,324
vCash: 500
Staal -- I don't want him at the price that would be asked.

However, he would fit better than Gagner due to:

1) Strong on draws
2) Can play against the other top line and still be effective
3) Not deadweight offensively, can hold on his own
4) Brings size to our top six

Gobo is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 12:37 AM
  #5
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
Staal -- I don't want him at the price that would be asked.

However, he would fit better than Gagner due to:

1) Strong on draws No he's worse than Horcoff
2) Can play against the other top line and still be effective Yes, at defense.
3) Not deadweight offensively, can hold on his own Like what, 40-50 points tops? Gagner does that as well.
4) Brings size to our top six Without a doubt.
Staal's an elite 3rd liner, and at best an average 2nd liner. There are much cheaper (trade-wise) options available. I'd much rather have a guy like Dubinsky playing on our 2nd line than Staal.

The Perfect Human* is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 12:49 AM
  #6
Eytinge
Registered User
 
Eytinge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 10,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Staal's an elite 3rd liner, and at best an average 2nd liner. There are much cheaper (trade-wise) options available. I'd much rather have a guy like Dubinsky playing on our 2nd line than Staal.
Dubinsky is another LW though. We are stacked to the brim with them. Yes he takes a lot of faceoffs but ask any Ranger fan and they will say he's best on the wing.

Eytinge is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 12:53 AM
  #7
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
Dubinsky is another LW though. We are stacked to the brim with them. Yes he takes a lot of faceoffs but ask any Ranger fan and they will say he's best on the wing.
That's perfectly fine with me. I'd have Gagner "play" center positionally, but have him line up at LW for the draw. It's not like Dubinsky's incapable of carrying defensively deficient centers on his line and make them look competent - he spent all of last year with Artem Anisimov playing "center".

The Perfect Human* is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 01:07 AM
  #8
Gobo
What's Your Issue?
 
Gobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Wild Rose Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Staal's an elite 3rd liner, and at best an average 2nd liner. There are much cheaper (trade-wise) options available. I'd much rather have a guy like Dubinsky playing on our 2nd line than Staal.
I would as well. I don't want Staal. All i'm saying is Staal > Gagner if the price was something like Gagner + for some odd reason.

Gobo is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 06:10 AM
  #9
Fourier
Registered User
 
Fourier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Waterloo Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Staal's an elite 3rd liner, and at best an average 2nd liner. There are much cheaper (trade-wise) options available. I'd much rather have a guy like Dubinsky playing on our 2nd line than Staal.
I am not at all convinced that Dubinsky would be cheaper than Staal tradewise. And since left wing is far and away the position of greatest depth on this team, it would make less sense to try and make this deal than the one proposed for Staal.

Fourier is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 09:16 AM
  #10
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 27,191
vCash: 2642
Is Staal any better than Horcoff from a few years back? I'd almost rather try sign Stoll this off-season to a 2-3 contract then trade what would be asked for Staal.

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 09:19 AM
  #11
theoil
Registered User
 
theoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,156
vCash: 500
Originally quoted by Harpoon

Quote:
People think Gagner is physically weak and gets bodied off the puck
Gagner is physically weak and does get bodied off the puck. This is true whether you like him or not. This is what has kept Gagner from fulfilling his promise as a high draft pick. It was reasonable on draft day to assume that he would get stronger but he hasn't. There are guys in the league his size and smaller who win puck battles but Sam is not one of them and the rest of the league has pretty much figured it out. I call it 'David Oliver Syndrome'.

Quote:
Assuming "Hoppy" means RNH ; nobody knows what this kid will turn into . imo he's a way bigger risk than the Hall pick and I'd be surprised to see him make the jump to the NHL this season - although with Tamby trying to save his job and Katz trying to get a new building I guess anything is possible .
Sorry, Hoppy is his nickname from his teammates and coach in Red Deer. What you say about him is true of every single player who has yet to play in the NHL but you don't get to be the #1 pick without reason and the chances he is less of a player than Gagner are very, very small. Almost non-existent really. I don't know or care if he makes the jump to the league this year or not. He will be here the year after at the latest barring devastating injury and that is not something you plan for. If you think Tambellini's job is in danger you have been reading too much Lowetide. There isn't the slightest chance that his job is in danger as the major architect of the rebuild. That may not be the case 2-3 years from now if the rebuild stalls but he is clearly implementing a plan approved by the owner and Lowe and to date it is firmly on track.

Quote:
If somebody comes along and offers me a nice deal for Gagner then yes I would consider moving him . But I certainly don't deal him strictly because there's "duplicate skills" (that may never pan out) somewhere down the pipeline .
I never said to give him away but I would be looking to deal him for value. A team can have only so many small skill players in its top six or nine and unless Gagner can learn to win puck battles he is the one easiest to neutralize imo.

Should we ever get back to the playoffs where coaches have the opportunity to form game plans specifically for their opposition I would see him as our weakest link simply because leaning on him is so effective.

theoil is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 09:55 AM
  #12
Reimer
Tambo Troll Face
 
Reimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,322
vCash: 500
Wow I didn't think my Staal proposal would stir up so much conversation.

Reimer is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 09:56 AM
  #13
Gobo
What's Your Issue?
 
Gobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Wild Rose Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,324
vCash: 500
Gagner/RNH comparisons are bad for a few reasons:

RNH is a better:

- Playmaker
- Skater
- Better hands
- Stronger on draws
- Better defense

If you're short and weak, you have to be fast unless your Jordan Eberle.

Gobo is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 10:04 AM
  #14
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 27,191
vCash: 2642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
Gagner/RNH comparisons are bad for a few reasons:

RNH is a better:

- Playmaker
- Skater
- Better hands
- Stronger on draws
- Better defense

If you're short and weak, you have to be fast unless your Jordan Eberle.
Is he better at draws? Where was Gagner in juniors on the faceoff dot, although I do agree with the rest.

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 10:05 AM
  #15
Section337
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
That is the unknown. That or he wants too much $, IMO one is just as bad as the other.
Or his agent told him he would be crazy to negotiate a contract this summer, which is sadly true.

Section337 is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 10:13 AM
  #16
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 27,191
vCash: 2642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Section337 View Post
Or his agent told him he would be crazy to negotiate a contract this summer, which is sadly true.
I think it's the other way around. Edmonton would be crazy to negotiate with a guy that is coming off yet another surgery. We screwed up with Horcoff, why would we make the same mistake a few years later?

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 10:15 AM
  #17
Section337
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I think it's the other way around. Edmonton would be crazy to negotiate with a guy that is coming off yet another surgery. We screwed up with Horcoff, why would we make the same mistake a few years later?
Can we agree on both sides?

Section337 is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 10:20 AM
  #18
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 27,191
vCash: 2642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Section337 View Post
Can we agree on both sides?
Maybe. I just think Hemsky would be crazy not to talk to the Oilers if they were offering 4+ years over similar money to what he's getting now.

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 10:47 AM
  #19
Hoogaar23
Registered User
 
Hoogaar23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
Gagner/RNH comparisons are bad for a few reasons:

RNH is a better:

- Stronger on draws
How do you know this? From what I heard, RNH pretty much sucked on the dot. Not that it really matters because faceoff prowess in the CHL has no correlation to faceoff prowess in the NHL, but just wondering where/how you came up with RNH is better than Gagner on faceoffs?

Hoogaar23 is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 10:54 AM
  #20
Gobo
What's Your Issue?
 
Gobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Wild Rose Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,324
vCash: 500
Don't have any stats, and i'm also comparing NHL to WHL but RNH is quicker on his draws when he pulls back which should lead to future success. Gags is mediocre.

Gobo is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 11:03 AM
  #21
McCupofOil
Bob The Builder
 
McCupofOil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: 5-14-6-1
Country: United States
Posts: 15,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
How do you know this? From what I heard, RNH pretty much sucked on the dot. Not that it really matters because faceoff prowess in the CHL has no correlation to faceoff prowess in the NHL, but just wondering where/how you came up with RNH is better than Gagner on faceoffs?
RNH doesn't suck on faceoffs, from the times that i've seen him (about 20 times or so), he has won more faceoffs than he lost.
Also, he dominated faceoffs in the WJC scrimmage and i believe that he faced off against Johansen several times so he at the very least holds his own.
It's impossible to compare RNH and Gagner on faceoffs until we see RNH at the NHL level.

McCupofOil is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 11:07 AM
  #22
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 54,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
Gagner/RNH comparisons are bad for a few reasons:

RNH is a better:

- Playmaker
- Skater
- Better hands
- Stronger on draws
- Better defense

If you're short and weak, you have to be fast unless your Jordan Eberle.
I would not consider Eberle to be weak, and while he isn't blazing fast like Hall or Paajarvi he is a very good skater.

Bryanbryoil is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 11:08 AM
  #23
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 54,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
RNH doesn't suck on faceoffs, from the times that i've seen him (about 20 times or so), he has won more faceoffs than he lost.
Also, he dominated faceoffs in the WJC scrimmage and i believe that he faced off against Johansen several times so he at the very least holds his own.
It's impossible to compare RNH and Gagner on faceoffs until we see RNH at the NHL level.
Gagner SHOULD be better, he's had 4 years worth of draw taking experience at the NHL level. That said he's still far from great at it.

Bryanbryoil is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 12:15 PM
  #24
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 27,191
vCash: 2642
I see Andrei Kostitsyn has issues with Martin. Wonder if NSH makes a play for him at some point?

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
08-11-2011, 12:19 PM
  #25
Fourier
Registered User
 
Fourier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Waterloo Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Maybe. I just think Hemsky would be crazy not to talk to the Oilers if they were offering 4+ years over similar money to what he's getting now.
By similar money to what he is getting now I hope you mean $5M rather than $4.1M. Even so I doubt there is any chance Hemsky would even consider a 4 year deal at $5M right now.

Fourier is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.