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Old
08-14-2011, 05:02 PM
  #301
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by FlyingRat View Post
How many "legit top 6 playoff forwards" are there available at this time of year?
It's not going to be easy. He isn't one anyway. We aren't winning anything with him in our top 6.

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08-14-2011, 05:04 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Dump him (he's left us little choice), add a million or so and get a legit top 6 playoff forward.
I think we should start the season with these top 3 lines

Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Cammalleri
Cole - Gomez - Gionta
Pacioretti - Eller - Desharnais

If Kostitsyn dogs it JM can put him back with Eller. Offering him this olive branch might motivate him to stay on the top line in his contract year.

As much as it would annoy me to pander to this man-child it would be a smart move for the best interests of the team.

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08-14-2011, 05:07 PM
  #303
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Akost and Maxpac are interchangeable, depending on who is playing well, and both will get time in the top 6 I like our balance, and we need to stay healthy, hopefully JM can use everyone to their strength.

Akost needs to take his agents advice, just play, and maybe his actions will speak louder than words....he is playing in a contract year...

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08-14-2011, 05:56 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
There is a difference between a player who is working his *** off but can't buy a goal and a player who plays disinterested.

Kostitsyn has been in the dog house for lack of effort from every head coach that we have had. He is held accountable for his actions (or lack thereof) and his response is that of a typical child.N

I love his skill level but he is a "me first" type of player and those players don't fit in a winning menvironment. Hopefully he can dislodge his thumb from his yap and play like a professional this coming season.
Pretty sure you did not watch all the games last season with a post like that. AK's problem last year was NOT a lack of effort. That's an undeniable fact. You guys need to stop with all the clichés.

Ak was not lazy at all. When he did not produce, it was not because he did nOt give an effort or commitment. His game is just way off. Poor decision making, no focus, no confidence. He is just lost. But that has nothing to do with effort.

Ive followed his game closely last season and can tell that the effort was there.

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08-14-2011, 06:12 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Pretty sure you did not watch all the games last season with a post like that. AK's problem last year was NOT a lack of effort. That's an undeniable fact. You guys need to stop with all the clichés.

Ak was not lazy at all. When he did not produce, it was not because he did nOt give an effort or commitment. His game is just way off. Poor decision making, no focus, no confidence. He is just lost. But that has nothing to do with effort.

Ive followed his game closely last season and can tell that the effort was there.
I have watched this team as close as anybody. It is an undeniable fact that Kostitsyn doesn't always show up to play.

Anyone who doesn't agree with this needs to remove their fanboy glasses.

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08-14-2011, 06:33 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I have watched this team as close as anybody. It is an undeniable fact that Kostitsyn doesn't always show up to play.

Anyone who doesn't agree with this needs to remove their fanboy glasses.
Nah, you automatically assume that if a guy has a bad game the effort wasn't there, there are lots of factors.

You make the mistake of thinking that becuase you sit there watching the games from a distance and analyze the play how you see it, it becomes fact.

A lack of confidence can cause a guy to overthink what he's doing, and what you view as a lack of effort might very well be a guy who is just not playing how he should be.

And again, there's probably 5 guys in the whole league who really bring it 82 games a year. I can think of countless games last year where Gionta was an invisible non factor. Am I going to sit here and say he wasn't trying? No.

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08-14-2011, 06:55 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Nah, you automatically assume that if a guy has a bad game the effort wasn't there, there are lots of factors.

You make the mistake of thinking that becuase you sit there watching the games from a distance and analyze the play how you see it, it becomes fact.

A lack of confidence can cause a guy to overthink what he's doing, and what you view as a lack of effort might very well be a guy who is just not playing how he should be.

And again, there's probably 5 guys in the whole league who really bring it 82 games a year. I can think of countless games last year where Gionta was an invisible non factor. Am I going to sit here and say he wasn't trying? No.
How many times has Gionta been benched in his career...........I suppose coaches just like to pick on Kostitsyn.

Give your head a shake people

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08-14-2011, 07:00 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
How many times has Gionta been benched in his career...........I suppose coaches just like to pick on Kostitsyn.

Give your head a shake people
Not sure, didn't follow his career while he was in New Jersey.

I'm not saying Kostitsyn brings his A game all 82 nights of the season...not at all. But waht I'm saying is that his perceived lack of effort is totally overblown.

A coach would be just as likely to bench a guy who isn't playing smart, as a guy who isn't putting in the effort required.

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08-14-2011, 07:16 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I have watched this team as close as anybody. It is an undeniable fact that Kostitsyn doesn't always show up to play.

Anyone who doesn't agree with this needs to remove their fanboy glasses.
Gionta has had off games where he looked sloppy and useless, same thing with Cammy, and how many did Gomez have?...

Every player in the NHL has off nights, they are humans. Maybe they had a fight with their gf/wife, maybe some personal things are happening, etc.

AK plays a style where if he's not creating things, he looks sloppy. He plays the exact same way when he's on than when he's not. He's not a super forechecker, fast skater that constantly around the puck. On or not, he's simply not that player. That's why some fans, such as yourself, feel he's not giving a proper effort whenever he's off his game.
The lazy, selfish, heartless clichés are completely ridiculous. If we look at last season alone, he didn't deserve the demotions.

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08-14-2011, 07:18 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Not sure, didn't follow his career while he was in New Jersey.

I'm not saying Kostitsyn brings his A game all 82 nights of the season...not at all. But waht I'm saying is that his perceived lack of effort is totally overblown.

A coach would be just as likely to bench a guy who isn't playing smart, as a guy who isn't putting in the effort required.
I have watched hockey from an analytical perspective for over 30 years. I know the difference between confidence issues and poor effort.

Much like Kovalev, Kostitsyn stops moving his feet and avoids the dirty areas of the ice when things aren't going his way. This is the reason that they go into slumps.

Players like Gionta and Cole go into slumps because there confidence sags and they over think their shots but they are still usefull forecheckers and are never easy to play against.

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08-14-2011, 09:04 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I have watched hockey from an analytical perspective for over 30 years. I know the difference between confidence issues and poor effort.

Much like Kovalev, Kostitsyn stops moving his feet and avoids the dirty areas of the ice when things aren't going his way. This is the reason that they go into slumps.

Players like Gionta and Cole go into slumps because there confidence sags and they over think their shots but they are still usefull forecheckers and are never easy to play against.
Again, if you did really watch the games, you would know that AK isn't afraid to play in the dirty area. Even if he has a good shot, on the PP, he stand in front of the net. If you really watched the games last year, you would know that.

Not true about AK stop moving his feet. He backchecks hard last season. It was his best defensive season so far. Sometimes, in his backcheck, he covers the wrong guy, yes but he does backcheck. Re-watch every games.

Find me article where his effort was called out or can you even name one game that he was totally lazy and not giving any kind of effort?

People comparing him with Kovalev, especially last season pretty much prove they don't know about hockey. Fact.

I'm not saying he is the Gionta or Plekanec category in term of effort but he is NOT a lazy player at all. Not last season.

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08-14-2011, 09:07 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I have watched hockey from an analytical perspective for over 30 years. I know the difference between confidence issues and poor effort.

Much like Kovalev, Kostitsyn stops moving his feet and avoids the dirty areas of the ice when things aren't going his way. This is the reason that they go into slumps.

Players like Gionta and Cole go into slumps because there confidence sags and they over think their shots but they are still usefull forecheckers and are never easy to play against.
Looks like a waste of 30 years then.

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08-14-2011, 09:08 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I have watched hockey from an analytical perspective for over 30 years. I know the difference between confidence issues and poor effort.

Much like Kovalev, Kostitsyn stops moving his feet and avoids the dirty areas of the ice when things aren't going his way. This is the reason that they go into slumps.

Players like Gionta and Cole go into slumps because there confidence sags and they over think their shots but they are still usefull forecheckers and are never easy to play against.
How old are you???

Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Looks like a waste of 30 years then.


Talking about his effort: he is the ONE who leads this team in hits...

And the only one who hits Chara...


Last edited by overlords: 08-14-2011 at 09:19 PM.
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08-14-2011, 09:21 PM
  #314
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Here is something Slava Kozlov once said

‘’ Some players are artists, and there is a place in hockey for the small and precise paintbrush’’
‘’But put your painting on a flimsy frame and it falls all the time ‘’

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08-14-2011, 10:54 PM
  #315
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NHL Coaching 101.

"I am in charge. I dont give a **** what you think. I dont care if you play well or not. I am not going to listen to a damned word you have to say. I can move you to any line I want to. I dont care if you were doing well with Pleks."

"Now go out and give it your all. Score a goal Andre. I need to win a Stanley Cup."

Much love, Jacques Martin.

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08-14-2011, 10:57 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Firstly, I'm far from a basher - in fact this is the only time that I've complained about him (outside of a bad game here and there) in years.

He consistently hits 20-25 goals each season but goes 15+ games without a goal each season. That's inconsistency in my books. The rest is a wash, I don't think he's a bad player or even a bad top6 player - he's just not worth the headache in my opinion.

This was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

He's replaceable and that's that.
So why didnt we trade Max Pacioretty last year when he dared to speak out against Martin.

And who do we replace Kostitsyn with?

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08-15-2011, 01:06 AM
  #317
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I think we should keep Akost around for a bit to serve as injury and Pacioretty insurance in the top-6.

Patches played very well before his injury, but who knows, hot streaks exist. Couple that along with his injury and he's still a very green top-6 option. Shane Willis anyone?

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08-15-2011, 05:19 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
I think we should keep Akost around for a bit to serve as injury and Pacioretty insurance in the top-6.

Patches played very well before his injury, but who knows, hot streaks exist. Couple that along with his injury and he's still a very green top-6 option. Shane Willis anyone?
you mean : Benoit Pouliot anyone...

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08-15-2011, 05:22 AM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I have watched hockey from an analytical perspective for over 30 years. I know the difference between confidence issues and poor effort.

Much like Kovalev, Kostitsyn stops moving his feet and avoids the dirty areas of the ice when things aren't going his way. This is the reason that they go into slumps.

Players like Gionta and Cole go into slumps because there confidence sags and they over think their shots but they are still usefull forecheckers and are never easy to play against.
congrats on describing the majority of NHLers

but I get what you're saying, AK goes into slumps cause he's lazy, Gionta/Cole go into slumps cause they lost confidence... seriously, it took you 30 years to get that kind of thinking ?

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08-15-2011, 06:34 AM
  #320
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Andrei Kostitsyn has to go

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...626/story.html

Quote:
MONTREAL - A few days ago, it appeared the Canadiens’ lineup was set for the coming season. General manager Pierre Gauthier has 21 players under contract with a couple of open spots for the youngsters to fight for in training camp. He also has more than $5 million in cap money if he feels the youngsters aren’t ready and he needs to add a piece or two.

But the situation has changed and, if Gauthier isn’t already making calls to trade Andrei Kostitsyn, he should be.

Kostitsyn’s position with the team became untenable after he sounded off in an interview with a hockey web site in his native Belarus. Kostitsyn expressed his frustration with Jacques Martin and said he wasn’t happy with the way the coach was using him.

Kostitsyn said it was difficult to play his best when he was stuck on the third or fourth line.

"I can't guess about next season," Kostitsyn told reporter Alexander Yankovich. "My relationship with the coach is not too good.

"It wasn't me who started to play badly," Kostitsyn added. "It's just that I was being put into (the) third and fourth line. I've tried talking to (Martin) more than once. But he doesn't care."

Kostitsyn seems to be making a personal issue out of a complaint with little basis in fact.

For example, Kostitsyn feels the coach lost confidence in him down the stretch.

Not really.

Kostitsyn averaged 15:53 of ice time over the course of the season. Over the final 15 games of the seasons, he played less than the average only three times and averaged better than 17 minutes a game. In six playoff appearances, he averaged more than 18 minutes a game.

Was he on the third or fourth line? That depends on whether you buy Martin’s mantra that he doesn’t assign numbers to his lines. Kostitsyn did find himself on lines with Lars Eller and David Desharnais, but you have to remember that changing lines is a compulsion with Martin. Kostitsyn might have reason to be upset with the constant changes but Dobber Hockey, a website that keeps track of who plays with whom, shows that Kostitsyn played with at least one member of the team’s elite four – Scott Gomez, Tomas Plekanec, Brian Gionta and Michael Cammalleri – more than 80 per cent of the time.

With the addition of Erik Cole and the contunued development of Max Pacioretty, there’s a strong possibility that Kostitsyn will start the season on the third line. But someone who cared about the team would see the possibility of contributing to Lars Eller’s development as an opportunity.

Kostitsyn was the Canadiens’ first-round draft choice in 2003 and has developed into a consistent 20-goal scorer, who is a plus-16 for his career. But there is a sense of frustration because most people believe that with his strength and his shot, he could be much better.

Kostitsyn’s streaky play and his attitude are not assets in what has become a tight dressing room, and it’s time to engage in some addition by subtraction. Phoenix, the Islanders and Colorado are currently under the salary cap floor and could use his $3.25-million cap hit. And he might also be attractive to Nashville, which successfully recycled Andrei’s younger brother, Sergei.

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08-15-2011, 07:13 AM
  #321
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This has to be the most subjective piece of crap article I've ever read...I've never seen soooooo many baseless assumptions.

How it Kostitsyn's complaint for ice time any different from Pacioretty's? In the case of the latter, it was seen as a fair complaint, but for Andrei...it mean's he's just another Euro with an attitude problem right? Clear double standard.

This article has assumptions about his attitude and his comportment in the lockerroom in relations to the rest of the team.

In short this article is crap and seems like it's expressing the wishes of it's writer rather than talking about the situation at hand.


Last edited by Andy: 08-15-2011 at 07:19 AM.
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08-15-2011, 07:18 AM
  #322
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Year after year, someone "has to go" according to all these pundits and armchair GMs.

Then, months later, everyone whines about why this person had "to go" and calls for management's head.

Some people should give it a rest, honestly.

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08-15-2011, 07:31 AM
  #323
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I absolutely don't agree. I don't see what's the big deal. There only is a problem if Martin takes offense to his comments, and then again Martin seems to have a thicker skin than that. I believe Kostitsyn has a right to state his displeasure, we all said it ourselves during the season, why was Martin not giving him ice time when he was one of our better wingers? Anyways, I hope he does well with Eller.


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08-15-2011, 07:42 AM
  #324
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While I don't agree fully with this article, I agree with Kostitsyn being given plenty of chances to reunite with Pleks and Cammy. AK started off hot, got stuck with gomez for a bit, but was then tried again with the atm line. He didn't take advantage of that opportunity and was sent to the "3rd" and "4th" line playing with Eller or Desharnais.

Everyone thinking JM just demoted him all season long is ********. AK was always given a chance.. the fact of the matter is that he isn't going to be a 30-30 guy in this league, but a 20-20 guy. He just isn't consistent enough. Maybe with a more developed desharnais and eller this season he will be able to take advantage of weaker opposition.

I don't want him gone, but fans are defending him too much. He is given the ice time, the powerplay time, the time with pleks, cammy, gomez, gio... the fact of the matter is that he won't be a better player than he is showing now, which is fine... for the 3rd line.

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08-15-2011, 07:52 AM
  #325
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Agree with the above comments about the article being a pile of garbage.

I love how big a deal people are making of this without having heard from Kostitsyn or Martin themselves.

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