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08-18-2011, 11:01 AM
  #426
impudent_lowlife
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Comparing Kostitsyn's playing time with Gomez's is comparing apples and oranges.

Back in the '70s some Habs players complained openly about their coaches. Most could back up their complaints with stellar play. But I will always remember Larry Robinson talking about playing in Montreal:

"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Some players will thrive in this pressure cooker but some will not.

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08-18-2011, 11:02 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
In what way did he go to far? If anything it shows that Andrei does care given the fact that he tried to talk to his coach many times. Isn't that one of the biggest complaints against Andrei is that he doesn't care? And now that he shows that he does...it's a bad thing?

I don’t see how this is not another attempt to just bash Andrei
For one thing, if you go back and read my posts in this thread or in my blog, you'll see that in no way am I bashing Kostitsyn.

I do however feel like he's gone too far when he stated that he's tried to talk to Martin but he doesn't care.

It's one thing if, amongst fans, we're talking about him "not caring", we're fans. But for an employee or an employer to say that, it is inappropriate in my humble opinion. Others may disagree and that's fine. It's an opinion.

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08-18-2011, 11:04 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by impudent_lowlife View Post
Comparing Kostitsyn's playing time with Gomez's is comparing apples and oranges.

Back in the '70s some Habs players complained openly about their coaches. Most could back up their complaints with stellar play. But I will always remember Larry Robinson talking about playing in Montreal:

"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Some players will thrive in this pressure cooker but some will not.
I don't think this is about being able to play under pressure.

It's about a player who felt he shouldn't have been demoted when he was because his play last year was a lot better than it has been for his entire career thus far. Also, he wasn't the only one who had off streaks, but he appeared to be the only one who would get punished for them. Cammalleri, gionta and Gomez all looked worse at certain points during the year...nothing happened to them.

He had what only 1 point in 18 games playing with Gomez? He produced consistently on every other line and his overall play was better as well(as was his effort level).

He had 44 points in 63 games when not playing with Gomez...that pace would have matched him with Cammalleri in terms of PPG.

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08-18-2011, 11:18 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
For one thing, if you go back and read my posts in this thread or in my blog, you'll see that in no way am I bashing Kostitsyn.

I do however feel like he's gone too far when he stated that he's tried to talk to Martin but he doesn't care.

It's one thing if, amongst fans, we're talking about him "not caring", we're fans. But for an employee or an employer to say that, it is inappropriate in my humble opinion. Others may disagree and that's fine. It's an opinion.
I see that you like to use the AK said "Martin doesn't care" argument to bash AK.

What's the big deal. Maybe the choice of words are wrong but the main point is that AK just wants to talk to the coach and apparently, it wasn't an easy thing to do.

What's wrong with a player that want to talk with the coach more often to keep him on track?

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08-18-2011, 11:19 AM
  #430
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IMO Martin have high hopes for Andrei that's why he don't treat him like Cam,Gionta,plek or Gomez. These guys have reach their potential so he know what they bring

AK still have huge potential so I think Martin want him to step his game up . Kostitsyn overall play is way better and I give Martin credit for that.

I expect Kostitsyn to be a beast this season . Sure right now he's not happy because he know he have to outplay Pacs and Cole for top line minutes.

Martin will give him PP time and play him on a top line if he play huge , score goals and backcheck hard .

Martin don't care about stats if you are one of the best player of the team play like one and you will have your ice time

Even if I'm a AK fan , I'm with Martin here. I think AK can be better and I want him to be a beast every night same thing has Martin IMO

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08-18-2011, 11:31 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I don't think this is about being able to play under pressure.

It's about a player who felt he shouldn't have been demoted when he was because his play last year was a lot better than it has been for his entire career thus far. Also, he wasn't the only one who had off streaks, but he appeared to be the only one who would get punished for them. Cammalleri, gionta and Gomez all looked worse at certain points during the year...nothing happened to them.

He had what only 1 point in 18 games playing with Gomez? He produced consistently on every other line and his overall play was better as well(as was his effort level).

He had 44 points in 63 games when not playing with Gomez...that pace would have matched him with Cammalleri in terms of PPG.
AK will never be appreciated as he should here.

First, because he was drafted so high, some people here will always compared him with Getzlaf, Brown, Carter, Parise, Richards, Kesler...

Then, some people overrated him by quite a bit. Just like a member in this thread that thinks AK can put up point when he wants. If he's happy, he can score and when he don't its because he's not in mood to play. Seriously what the ****?

When AK is not producing, its because he's being lazy. When his teammates aren't producing, its because they are slumping.

Even if AK is leading in hits, he's hits are useless.

When AK scores 2 goals in a game and plays a great game, some people will blame him for not playing like that every game.

AK is inconsistent yes. He had ups and downs last season, but some people only concentrate on his downs. They don't care about his 20 goals, they don't care about his game winning goals, they don't care about his hits, they don't care about his contribution to the team, they don't care about how much he would have been last season if he had never played with Gomez.

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08-18-2011, 11:38 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
I see that you like to use the AK said "Martin doesn't care" argument to bash AK.
Find some bashing on my part in this thread or my blog. I dare you!

Or is it that some AK lovers-at-all-cost should grow a thicker skin?

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08-18-2011, 11:41 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Find some bashing on my part in this thread or my blog. I dare you!

Or is it that some AK lovers-at-all-cost should grow a thicker skin?
It may not be bashing, but you are still painting a negative picture of him.

Instead you should perhaps look at the fact that maybe Andrei does in fact care...which would go against the commonplace perception of Andrei.

Instead you chose to cope out and stick with the negative...kind of like saying..."oh Andrei, you came so close to doing something good, but you failed again because of this comment...sorry try again"

Your article still has a negative tone.

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08-18-2011, 11:51 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Find some bashing on my part in this thread or my blog. I dare you!

Or is it that some AK lovers-at-all-cost should grow a thicker skin?
I think we all know how much you don't like AK as a player. So don't pretend your article had no intention of bashing AK or at least make him look bad.

Call me AK lovers or whatever you want, there is nothing controversial in that interview to me but since its AK and its summer time, you guys like to blow things out of proportion so have fun with it.

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08-18-2011, 12:00 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I wasn't there and neither were you. I think that it's very much subjective to think that AK knows that Martin doesn't care, even if he believes it. Unless Martin told him straight out, it seems like a assumption by AK more than anything else.
I never said AK knows Martin doesn't care, what I was trying to say is if he feels a certain way, it must be for a reason and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt considering he's the concerned player.
That doesn't mean Martin doesn't care about the team, but maybe just about AK.
AK might look at how Martin works with Carey, Plek, Gomez, Gionta, etc and notice that he's not treated in the same way, at all, and when he goes to speak to him about it, he doesn't get any type of encouragement or acknowledgement which is why he's pushed into feeling like Martin doesn't care.
Considering communication was already brought up by other players, and guys like Latendresse felt pretty much the same as AK, the sense of being pushed away or tossed aside by Martin, then I don't have a problem believing it.

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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
As for turning the table on the fact that I'm not a fan of AK, you should know that I dislike Jacques Martin even more. Therefore, I'm not taking sides here, far from there. The fact remains that AK crossed the line not when he said he wasn't happy with his utilization, but when he stated that Martin doesn't care.
Maybe your upset that he said those things publicly, but Martin threw the first jab when he said AK's hot start was due to him playing for a contract. In any event, it's not like he called Martin a fat pig idiot or anything like that, I don't think AK was trying to throw a jab at Martin by saying that. I think your misunderstanding the reason why AK said that.
I see it as a relief. The coach didn't listen to him despite numerous attempts to discuss things, so speaking out about it might be a way for him to get through to Martin. Maybe Martin will try to pay more attention to AK.
All in all though, I don't think it's a big deal. I don't think it's an issue between the two concerned men, so I don't see why fans should feel like he crossed the line.

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08-18-2011, 12:49 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Find some bashing on my part in this thread or my blog. I dare you!

Or is it that some AK lovers-at-all-cost should grow a thicker skin?
It may not be in this thread (can't be arsed going back through it and looking to be honest) or your blog, but in the thread you started on this board to promote your blog (here is the link) you have a little cartoon done by someone else that appears to depict a number of young Habs as scrappy Bulldogs but that also depicts Andrei as a bad egg, or as being rotten. By virtue of the fact that you bothered to post it at all, especially in association with your own blog which contains your own views and opinions, is it not reasonable to assume that you regard Andrei as some sort of problem or at least of less value or worth than White, Desharnais, Patches and Subban, who are also depicted?

Here is the image again, for anyone who missed your thread:


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08-18-2011, 01:09 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I never said AK knows Martin doesn't care, what I was trying to say is if he feels a certain way, it must be for a reason and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt considering he's the concerned player.
That doesn't mean Martin doesn't care about the team, but maybe just about AK.
AK might look at how Martin works with Carey, Plek, Gomez, Gionta, etc and notice that he's not treated in the same way, at all, and when he goes to speak to him about it, he doesn't get any type of encouragement or acknowledgement which is why he's pushed into feeling like Martin doesn't care.
Considering communication was already brought up by other players, and guys like Latendresse felt pretty much the same as AK, the sense of being pushed away or tossed aside by Martin, then I don't have a problem believing it.


Maybe your upset that he said those things publicly, but Martin threw the first jab when he said AK's hot start was due to him playing for a contract. In any event, it's not like he called Martin a fat pig idiot or anything like that, I don't think AK was trying to throw a jab at Martin by saying that. I think your misunderstanding the reason why AK said that.
I see it as a relief. The coach didn't listen to him despite numerous attempts to discuss things, so speaking out about it might be a way for him to get through to Martin. Maybe Martin will try to pay more attention to AK.
All in all though, I don't think it's a big deal. I don't think it's an issue between the two concerned men, so I don't see why fans should feel like he crossed the line.
Does it really matter nayway ?

A.K. will play his last season in Montreal anyway. He's gonna be dealt before next March or walk out as a UFA next July.

It doesn't matter if he has an awesome or a crappy season.

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08-18-2011, 01:14 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
It may not be bashing, but you are still painting a negative picture of him.

Instead you should perhaps look at the fact that maybe Andrei does in fact care...which would go against the commonplace perception of Andrei.

Instead you chose to cope out and stick with the negative...kind of like saying..."oh Andrei, you came so close to doing something good, but you failed again because of this comment...sorry try again"

Your article still has a negative tone.
It may seem negative but it truly isn't. I've commented on the facts, what Kostitsyn himself said, comments which, in my opinion, crossed the line. If by saying that it is considered bashing or negative, so be it. I didn't say it, he did.

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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
I think we all know how much you don't like AK as a player. So don't pretend your article had no intention of bashing AK or at least make him look bad.

Call me AK lovers or whatever you want, there is nothing controversial in that interview to me but since its AK and its summer time, you guys like to blow things out of proportion so have fun with it.
I can tell you honestly that there was no ill intentions on my part. Whether you believe it or not is up to you. But if you think you know better than I do, fill your boots.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I never said AK knows Martin doesn't care, what I was trying to say is if he feels a certain way, it must be for a reason and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt considering he's the concerned player.
That doesn't mean Martin doesn't care about the team, but maybe just about AK.
AK might look at how Martin works with Carey, Plek, Gomez, Gionta, etc and notice that he's not treated in the same way, at all, and when he goes to speak to him about it, he doesn't get any type of encouragement or acknowledgement which is why he's pushed into feeling like Martin doesn't care.
Considering communication was already brought up by other players, and guys like Latendresse felt pretty much the same as AK, the sense of being pushed away or tossed aside by Martin, then I don't have a problem believing it.
Lots of suppositions here, don't you agree?

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Maybe your upset that he said those things publicly, but Martin threw the first jab when he said AK's hot start was due to him playing for a contract. In any event, it's not like he called Martin a fat pig idiot or anything like that, I don't think AK was trying to throw a jab at Martin by saying that. I think your misunderstanding the reason why AK said that.
I see it as a relief. The coach didn't listen to him despite numerous attempts to discuss things, so speaking out about it might be a way for him to get through to Martin. Maybe Martin will try to pay more attention to AK.
All in all though, I don't think it's a big deal. I don't think it's an issue between the two concerned men, so I don't see why fans should feel like he crossed the line.
For the umpteen time, I didn't misunderstand the reason why he said it. As I've stated many times before, I agree in most part with what he's saying. I truly don't feel like he should have said it publicly (the part that Martin doesn't care), that's all and that, whether Martin started it or not. I teach my kids that the one who continues is just as bad as the one who started it...

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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
It may not be in this thread (can't be arsed going back through it and looking to be honest) or your blog, but in the thread you started on this board to promote your blog (here is the link) you have a little cartoon done by someone else that appears to depict a number of young Habs as scrappy Bulldogs but that also depicts Andrei as a bad egg, or as being rotten. By virtue of the fact that you bothered to post it at all, especially in association with your own blog which contains your own views and opinions, is it not reasonable to assume that you regard Andrei as some sort of problem or at least of less value or worth than White, Desharnais, Patches and Subban, who are also depicted?

Here is the image again, for anyone who missed your thread:

The article where you're taking this picture from is a very positive painting of the Habs' future. It happens that my buddy Martin Roy had this egg in it and yes, I thought it was funny. I've never denied disliking players like Kovalev, Kostitsyn, Jagr... players who are temperamental and play when they feel like it and I never will like that type of player.

But to even suggest that this has anything to do with my comments about disliking the fact that AK is putting his coach (whoever he is) publicly is absolutely out of left field and utter BS. Now you can believe it or not, it's up to you. But I do know my own intentions and just like I don't hide to say when I like or dislike a player, I would also not be afraid of saying it here and now if it was the case.

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08-18-2011, 01:20 PM
  #439
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Here's how I would have gained some new respect for the guy:

"I'm not satisfied with the way I've been bounced around last year. I've worked extra hard this summer and I'll do everything in my power to prove that I belong on the Top 6 in Montreal."

The dissatisfaction towards the coach is still there, although more subdue, but he's using it as a source of motivation, just like Pacioretty did with his comments to stay in Hamilton to improve.

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08-18-2011, 01:22 PM
  #440
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Did you feel the same way about Pacioretty's comments Asterix/JL/habsterix(I dunno what to call you anymore)...he did after all compare his current coaches to his previous ones stating that he actually preferred the style of Carbo over his current coaches...isn't that much worse than what Andrei said about martin not caring?

Pacioretty went beyond attacking the manner in which martin coaches...but attacked his coaching style and method...why didn't that seem so bad to you?

What crosses my mind is the following....if it were pacioretty making the comments that Andrei made, would they have changed your perceptions or emotions on the issue? Following your posts here for quite some time, my guess is that it would.

Also, whether he phrased it in another way like Pacioretty did, the idea or complaint essentially remains the same. Instead of sugar coating the truth, which essentially takes away from a player's true sentiments, he spoke his mind and in doing so, it actually shows that he cares, which is contrary to what most people say about Andrei.

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08-18-2011, 01:28 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Here's how I would have gained some new respect for the guy:

"I'm not satisfied with the way I've been bounced around last year. I've worked extra hard this summer and I'll do everything in my power to prove that I belong on the Top 6 in Montreal."

The dissatisfaction towards the coach is still there, although more subdue, but he's using it as a source of motivation, just like Pacioretty did with his comments to stay in Hamilton to improve.
honnestly even if he say something like that. it's mean absolutly nothing. Some hockey players are good politician some don't know how to talk the medias.

His play on the ice will talk

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08-18-2011, 02:36 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Here's how I would have gained some new respect for the guy:

"I'm not satisfied with the way I've been bounced around last year. I've worked extra hard this summer and I'll do everything in my power to prove that I belong on the Top 6 in Montreal."

The dissatisfaction towards the coach is still there, although more subdue, but he's using it as a source of motivation, just like Pacioretty did with his comments to stay in Hamilton to improve.
I really don't know why you put so much importance on simple words.
Also.
AK feels Martin didn't care, boohoo.

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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Does it really matter nayway ?

A.K. will play his last season in Montreal anyway. He's gonna be dealt before next March or walk out as a UFA next July.

It doesn't matter if he has an awesome or a crappy season.
Don't you want every player on your team to do well?
AK won't necessarily be moved or let go. We will see how things go.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 08-18-2011 at 02:48 PM. Reason: merged
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08-18-2011, 07:47 PM
  #443
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As long as Martin is in Montreal, this is what we can expect.

Martin is proving to be as big of a disaster regarding handling his players as Carbo was.

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08-18-2011, 09:11 PM
  #444
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As long as Martin is in Montreal, this is what we can expect.

Martin is proving to be as big of a disaster regarding handling his players as Carbo was.
Holy drama queen!

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08-18-2011, 09:16 PM
  #445
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Holy drama queen!
I'd say the same thing to anyone taking AK's words as seriously as some in here have.

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08-19-2011, 01:12 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I really don't know why you put so much importance on simple words.
Also.
AK feels Martin didn't care, boohoo.



Don't you want every player on your team to do well?
AK won't necessarily be moved or let go. We will see how things go
.
You're dreaming in Technicolour if you think he's gonna stay in Montreal for the 2012-13 season. His brother probably sold him the idea that it is more agreable to play as an unknown, anonymous , far from the media, and for a better player-coach somewhere else.

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08-19-2011, 11:09 PM
  #447
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I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion here and please don't take offense or think I'm being prejudice but until the Habs start hiring the best coaches/managers available instead of the best French speaking coaches/managers available they will continue to have issues like this.

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08-19-2011, 11:21 PM
  #448
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I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion here and please don't take offense or think I'm being prejudice but until the Habs start hiring the best coaches/managers available instead of the best French speaking coaches/managers available they will continue to have issues like this.
I agree that it's a horrible way to run a team, but language has nothing to do with this current 'situation'. Jacques Martin is a good coach that would have have been in consideration for the position regardless of the team's hiring practices. So this is a case where those restrictions didn't really harm the team.

And it's not like Francophone coaches are known for alienating their players, so even if you did pick strictly from that sub-group you'd have just as much of a chance of picking one with that problem if you didn't.

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08-19-2011, 11:30 PM
  #449
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I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion here and please don't take offense or think I'm being prejudice but until the Habs start hiring the best coaches/managers available instead of the best French speaking coaches/managers available they will continue to have issues like this.
what if the Guy bouchers of this world didn't exist ... ? what if montreal, or quebec in general was the birthplace of many great coaches, like...say, a guy who just won the cup ? what if we played this game in a special way ... a way that makes your opponents go , (in the peak of our domination in the 70's) '' if it wasn't for the french factor, we would have won '' ....


you can go home and take your stupid little board comments and shove them up your ass. Guy boucher is arguably one of the top 3 coaches in this league and the organization prefered martin, not saying its a better choice, but just saying ''get lost''. There are plenty of undervalued french canadian coaches and its great to see one team keeping the tradition ... as long as coaches like pat burns and julien will be getting their cup rings, there is no shame to look for a coach that fits our team history and culture. move on , and witness how your team will miss the playoffs this year, yes with all that money invested in star players, yet again.

sorry for being direct, but that idiotic line '' if only they wouldn't care about french coaches '' is just retarded at this point in time with all the historical evidence, and the new generation of coaches that emerged from here... AND WOULDNT OTHERWISE.


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08-19-2011, 11:32 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
I agree that it's a horrible way to run a team, but language has nothing to do with this current 'situation'. Jacques Martin is a good coach that would have have been in consideration for the position regardless of the team's hiring practices. So this is a case where those restrictions didn't really harm the team.

And it's not like Francophone coaches are known for alienating their players, so even if you did pick strictly from that sub-group you'd have just as much of a chance of picking one with that problem if you didn't.
Absolutely I'm not trying to say it directly coincides with what's happened here but indirectly maybe it does. I just think that that the hiring and drafting practices that the Canadiens use holds the organization back big time.

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