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Andrei Kostitsyn Comments to Alexander Vankovich

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Old
08-22-2011, 09:00 PM
  #501
Andy
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
No he didn't.
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Whre ? When ?

I never read or heard that before.

Pac wanted to play on a top-two lines in Hamilton instead of rotting on a bottom line or in the stands in Montreal.

That's what he said.
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Pacioretty felt that under Guy Carbonneau as the head coach of Montreal, he was encouraged properly and was shown a lot of confidence. He admitted that he did make mistakes but he was not punished for them by being sent to the third or fourth line or by being benched. Rather he was explained what mistakes he made and was given the opportunity to correct them. He said he wants the coaches to show him confidence by allowing him to keep playing with his line mates rather than demoting him to the bottom two lines. He realizes that it's the only way he can develop at the NHL level and if that is not to happen, then he'd rather get his ice-time at the AHL level.
http://www.habsindepth.com/content/p...ather-stay-ahl

Here is a clear critque from Pacioretty regarding a coaches method in relation to player development. It's not hard to see that this implies that he prefers Carbo's method's to the current coaching staff of the Canadiens. That is a pretty big insult coming from what was then a player who hadn't proved squat at the nhl level. That didn't seem to bug most of you did it.

In that very same passage, we have expectations on the part of Pacioretty, namely that he expects confidence despite him not being ready yet. He then follows his complaint up by explaining what he feels should be done, rather than what the coaches are actually doing.

Pacioretty's complaint critques Martin's coaching on several different aspects. Andrei's complaint critques Martin's emotional attatchment to his players to which we already know isn't good at all. Yet the latter's complaint seems to bother more people than the formers which leads me to believe that it is not the content of the complaint that bugs people, but who the complainer is.

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08-22-2011, 09:23 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
http://www.habsindepth.com/content/p...ather-stay-ahl

Here is a clear critque from Pacioretty regarding a coaches method in relation to player development. It's not hard to see that this implies that he prefers Carbo's method's to the current coaching staff of the Canadiens. That is a pretty big insult coming from what was then a player who hadn't proved squat at the nhl level. That didn't seem to bug most of you did it.

In that very same passage, we have expectations on the part of Pacioretty, namely that he expects confidence despite him not being ready yet. He then follows his complaint up by explaining what he feels should be done, rather than what the coaches are actually doing.

Pacioretty's complaint critques Martin's coaching on several different aspects. Andrei's complaint critques Martin's emotional attatchment to his players to which we already know isn't good at all. Yet the latter's complaint seems to bother more people than the formers which leads me to believe that it is not the content of the complaint that bugs people, but who the complainer is.
Thanks for that post. There has been quite a bit of revisionist history going on in this thread.

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08-22-2011, 11:56 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by eliash View Post
But clearly AK is past that point where he needs to prove something. That's the whole point of his statement. He feels like he already proved like he could play top minutes, but he gets benched by JM for no reason.

Even if AK thinks too much of himself, JM has to explain to him why he is demoting him, because clearly in AK's mind he isn't being treated fairly. How does he prove JM wrong if he thinks he was doing just fine before getting demoted?
AK should be able to tell that being a 40ish point guy isn't cutting it. He knows, and we all know he should be more like a 55-60 point guy. The guy is what 26? 27? These should be the best years of his career. While he needs to understand that the expectation from him is consistency and he is probably the most inconsistent player on the team.

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Old
08-23-2011, 12:18 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
AK should be able to tell that being a 40ish point guy isn't cutting it. He knows, and we all know he should be more like a 55-60 point guy. The guy is what 26? 27? These should be the best years of his career. While he needs to understand that the expectation from him is consistency and he is probably the most inconsistent player on the team.

And you need to understand that he would be in the 50-55 pts mark if he played all season with Plekanec.

He got 45 pts by playing on all 4 lines. And pretty much wasted 15-18 games with Gomez when he got only 1 pt.

The guy got 1 pt less than Gionta with 300 min less of ice time and people talk like he got a miserable season and did not deserved to play on the top 6.

When AK was put in a position to produce, which is Gomez-less, he got around 44 pts in 65 games which is around 0.67 ppg. In a 82 games season, that would give him ~55 pts.

Everybody has already forgiven Gomez because they expect him to bounce back next season with MaxPac and Markov helping him out but nobody gives a crap when AK can pull a 55 pts season with Plekanec.

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08-23-2011, 12:20 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
And you need to understand that he would be in the 50-55 pts mark if he played all season with Plekanec.

He got 45 pts by playing on all 4 lines. And pretty much wasted 15-18 games with Gomez when he got only 1 pt.

The guy got 1 pt less than Gionta with 300 min less of ice time and people talk like he got a miserable season and did not deserved to play on the top 6.

When AK was put in a position to produce, which is Gomez-less, he got around 44 pts in 65 games which is around 0.67 ppg. In a 82 games season, that would give him ~55 pts.

Everybody has already forgiven Gomez because they expect him to bounce back next season with MaxPac and Markov helping him out but nobody gives a crap when AK can pull a 55 pts season with Plekanec.
Stop it. You're making too much sense.

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08-23-2011, 12:38 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
AK should be able to tell that being a 40ish point guy isn't cutting it. He knows, and we all know he should be more like a 55-60 point guy. The guy is what 26? 27? These should be the best years of his career. While he needs to understand that the expectation from him is consistency and he is probably the most inconsistent player on the team.
I hate to burst your bubble, but I would argue that the ONLY consistent forward on the Habs roster last season was Plekanec. Every single other player went through at least a few ups and downs, which is normal as the large majority of NHL forwards are inconsistent. The ones that are able to play at a high level consistently (or a VERY high level at times) are the stars of the league. At least when Kostitsyn is on, he can literally turn the tide of a game; that's a good quality to have as a forward, and not many have it.

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08-23-2011, 12:48 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
I hate to burst your bubble, but I would argue that the ONLY consistent forward on the Habs roster last season was Plekanec. Every single other player went through at least a few ups and downs, which is normal as the large majority of NHL forwards are inconsistent. The ones that are able to play at a high level consistently (or a VERY high level at times) are the stars of the league. At least when Kostitsyn is on, he can literally turn the tide of a game; that's a good quality to have as a forward, and not many have it.
except we only see this good side of AKost for about 10 or 11 games at a time and only about twice a year.

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08-23-2011, 01:10 AM
  #508
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Claude Julien is from Ontario.
thanks for pointing it out ... thought he was from gatineau/hull area ... didn't mean that part to be a provincial debate, more of a cultural one ...

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08-23-2011, 01:41 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
AK should be able to tell that being a 40ish point guy isn't cutting it. He knows, and we all know he should be more like a 55-60 point guy. The guy is what 26? 27? These should be the best years of his career. While he needs to understand that the expectation from him is consistency and he is probably the most inconsistent player on the team.
Who has the most consistent forward on the team last season?

A tip: Plekanec definitely wasn't it.

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Old
08-23-2011, 09:03 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
except we only see this good side of AKost for about 10 or 11 games at a time and only about twice a year.
Why is it so hard to understand that AK isn't going to be the consistent player you want him to be?
If AK was consistent, he wouldn't be that 55pt player you talk about, he's already that player when paired with plekanec. If he was consistent, he'd reach the 65+pts 30g plateau. I don't think he's that player. Might happen one or two years out of his whole career, but I don't expect it to happen consistently throughout his career.

Who was more disappointing to you last year, Gionta or AK? Cammy or AK? Gomez or AK? Which one of these players would you expect to produce significantly more that AK?

People still expect too much of AK. He had a good season last year.

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08-23-2011, 09:12 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by eliash View Post
But clearly AK is past that point where he needs to prove something. That's the whole point of his statement. He feels like he already proved like he could play top minutes, but he gets benched by JM for no reason.

Even if AK thinks too much of himself, JM has to explain to him why he is demoting him, because clearly in AK's mind he isn't being treated fairly. How does he prove JM wrong if he thinks he was doing just fine before getting demoted?
The day that you start thinking that you're good enough and that you have nothing to prove is also the day that you start regressing.

I'm not arguing that AK has a point with his comments. As a matter of fact, I agree. It's the calling out the coach in public that I don't like and that, in any facet of life, not just hockey.

People disagree? Good for them. Those are my principles. And no, Pacioretty's comments weren't the same.

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08-23-2011, 09:51 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Stop it. You're making too much sense.
Gionta played with Gomez all year long. AK would have gotten more points if he had played more games with Plekanec, but Gionta wouldn't have ?


Last edited by FF de Mars: 08-23-2011 at 09:57 AM.
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08-23-2011, 11:34 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Gionta played with Gomez all year long. AK would have gotten more points if he had played more games with Plekanec, but Gionta wouldn't have ?
Gionta didn't produce anything when he was with Gomez and a scrapper, he did when Maxpax completed the trio, and earlier in the season, he started putting points up once he was moved to the 1st line with Plek-Ak and cammy was sent down with Gomez.

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Old
08-23-2011, 12:13 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Gionta didn't produce anything when he was with Gomez and a scrapper, he did when Maxpax completed the trio, and earlier in the season, he started putting points up once he was moved to the 1st line with Plek-Ak and cammy was sent down with Gomez.
He played most of the year with Gomez and did his job. But it was directed at Stradale who was saying that if AK played with Pleks for the whole season, he would have more points. And it was in comparison with Gionta. My point is that Gionta too would have more points had he played the whole year with Pleks.

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08-23-2011, 01:54 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Gionta played with Gomez all year long. AK would have gotten more points if he had played more games with Plekanec, but Gionta wouldn't have ?
short memory I guess. Gionta started the season very slowly and was doing nothing next to Gomez... he "woke up" when paired with Plekanec (coincidence ?) for a little while...

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08-23-2011, 02:14 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
The day that you start thinking that you're good enough and that you have nothing to prove is also the day that you start regressing.

I'm not arguing that AK has a point with his comments. As a matter of fact, I agree. It's the calling out the coach in public that I don't like and that, in any facet of life, not just hockey.

People disagree? Good for them. Those are my principles. And no, Pacioretty's comments weren't the same.
Well said!

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08-23-2011, 02:32 PM
  #517
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short memory I guess. Gionta started the season very slowly and was doing nothing next to Gomez... he "woke up" when paired with Plekanec (coincidence ?) for a little while...
He still mostly played with Gomez.

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08-23-2011, 03:15 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
He still mostly played with Gomez.
But it isn't as simple as that.
Gionta alone with Gomez couldn't produce at all. Thankfully, he had good stints on the 1st line and when Maxpac got called up. Otherwise, he would have had about as bad a season as Gomez.
AK, just like Gionta, couldn't produce with Gomez when they were completed with a scrapper. If he was placed there along with MaxPac, I'm sure he'd have had some success as well.

Gionta also never spent any time on the 3rd or 4th line, like AK.

AK had a better season than Gionta imo.

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08-23-2011, 03:28 PM
  #519
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OK. Let's conclude this thread and trade a.s.a.p A.K and Max Pac for guys like Niinimaa and Pouliot and Boyd and Ellis !

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08-23-2011, 03:41 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
He still mostly played with Gomez.
going from "all year long" to "mostly"...

not going to look into it (too lazy for that ), but you could probably do something similar with his production...

actually, there isnt much digging to do, it's pretty simple...

AK's the best forward at the start of the season along with Plekanec. Once taken off Plek line and put with Gomez, he doesnt produce anymore...

Gionta isnt doing squat at the beginning of the season playing alongside Gomez, once put on Plek line, he "takes off"...

And while I like Plek and all, it isnt to show that #14 was having a godlike season or anything...

but maybe, maybe Gionta struggling at the beginning of the season and AK slowing down when put on a different line isnt ALL on those two...

is AK streaky ? he's a 45/50 pts player so hell yeah! but no more - no less than most 45/50 pts players... I mean, how many of them get a pt every two game ?

dont get fooled cause he can do an amazing play here and there during the course of the season, he's not a 40 goal scorer and he isnt a PPG player either... and he never will be...



Afterall, who doesnt remember this amazing goal... scored by a 20 pts player...


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Old
08-23-2011, 03:52 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Who was more disappointing to you last year, Gionta or AK? Cammy or AK? Gomez or AK? Which one of these players would you expect to produce significantly more that AK?

But with all the other players you mentioned, Gionta, Cammy, Gomez you can expect them to bounce back. An inner pride I am not sure AK has.

With AK, all I want to see him do is make an effort on a consistent basis and not look like he's out for a Sunday skate.

If that's asking too much, we are in big trouble.

Let's see what happens this season.

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08-23-2011, 04:34 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
But with all the other players you mentioned, Gionta, Cammy, Gomez you can expect them to bounce back. An inner pride I am not sure AK has.

With AK, all I want to see him do is make an effort on a consistent basis and not look like he's out for a Sunday skate.

If that's asking too much, we are in big trouble.

Let's see what happens this season.
But that's the problem.
AK doesn't need to bounce back from anything. He didn't have a bad year. He's paid to get to the 20g mark and 45-55pts. He can have a slight improvement in production but he would have produced more last year had he not spent time with Gomez/Scrapper.

AK had an average year last season. Consistency from him every night is just not going to happen. He's not that type of player.

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Old
08-23-2011, 07:22 PM
  #523
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We need two more Plekanec and our wingers will be godlike.

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08-23-2011, 10:39 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
He played most of the year with Gomez and did his job. But it was directed at Stradale who was saying that if AK played with Pleks for the whole season, he would have more points. And it was in comparison with Gionta. My point is that Gionta too would have more points had he played the whole year with Pleks.
Stop making so much sense!

Gionta played 61% of the time with Gomez, all situations included last year.

At even strength, the captain spent 64% of his time with Gomez by his side, while spending just over 30% of his time with Plekanec.

Source: dobberhockey.com

Also, those without a selective memory will also be able to admit that while playing with Gomez to start the season, Gionta was getting plenty of opportunities, he just couldn't burry them as they say, meaning that the scoring chances were there.

I may be wrong but it sure seems like in previous years when the coaches, whoever they might be, were blamed for AK's lack of production, some people are once again looking for excuses to justify his lack of success. Eventually, a mirror might just be what AK needs instead of pointing fingers in every which direction...

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08-23-2011, 11:00 PM
  #525
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We need two more Plekanec and our wingers will be godlike.
I'd be content to add a Plekanec clone. I'd even be willing to trade an asset as valuable as Gomez to get him. Deal?

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