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Andrei Kostitsyn Comments to Alexander Vankovich

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Old
08-11-2011, 01:04 PM
  #76
Et le But
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AK is a mixed bag, this comment shows me he's not very bright which isn't really a surprise. Looks like he's a goner, too bad, he's a disappointment because he can't live up to his skill set but he's still a useful addition to this team and will be missed.


What I never get is how fans call him "lazy" and "soft", he's a terrible decision maker but he rarely floated last season.

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08-11-2011, 01:06 PM
  #77
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I'm sure this is all Subban's fault somehow.

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08-11-2011, 01:07 PM
  #78
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Andrei was always quiet and never complained, why the change.

Looks like he just booked his ticket out of town. His lack of consistency is not Martin's fault.

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08-11-2011, 01:08 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
it's not about "throwing crap" at anyone, player or management/coach...

it's about trying to understand why the same situation keeps repeating itself so frequently. Individually, one could try to make a case to blame either management-coach or player in all of these situations, but that doesn't solve the problem as to why it happens so frequently with our franchise.

league-wide, i don't know if any team has had as many problems over the past few years over the same type of issue (young roster player feeling disgruntled with way team treats/communicates with them).

i follow the flames quite closely (living in Calgary), and even under Darryl Sutter (who is about the hardest type of individual to communicate with on the planet), you rarely saw these kinds of problems emerge.

there is a problem with the culture of the habs organization, and wether the blame lies more with certain players or with the leadership structure, ultimately it's up to the leadership structure to address the issue.
I don't think it's a problem with the habs organization on this one. Cue Kostitsyn's comments saying that he didn't start playing bad, but he was pretty much demoted to the 3rd/4th line for no reason. Same problem we had with Sergei. They want ice-time, the coach wants results...but if the results are not there, they still want the ice-time. Kostitsyn is just frustrated as most of us are with the way things are going in his career, he knows he can be a 30 goal scorer and a star in this league. But instead of using that frustration as motivation to perform at his peak level, he's just taking it out in public, hoping that the coach will hear him and give him what he wants.

I suppose he sees guys like Gomez and Cammalleri getting ice-time despite having horrible seasons and he questions the coach's decisions. Andrei fails to realize that Cammalleri and Gomez have earned that kind of latitude in the NHL for their individual accomplishements and status in the league. Cammalleri has been one of the NHL's top playoff performers 2 years in a row and Gomez has won the cup while being one of the top playmakers in the NHL (back then). What has Kostitsyn done? Might sound harsh or simple-minded, but it's like that. He's not the first one on the ice in the morning during practice, not the last to leave, his stats are nothing to write home about, he's not in great shape (he's lost a step since his first full season) and he's being demoted because the coach wants him to work harder. Doesn't look too good on a player's CV.

Again, I disagree with the notion that the habs are doing something wrong with this guy, he's been given a lot of chances, maybe too many and hasn't delivered. Every situation is different and were evaluated by the organization individually, so let's not compare what happened with Lapierre, Laraque and Sergei.

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08-11-2011, 01:09 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Doesnt everyone remember when Kostitsyn started the season hot and when they asked Martin he said it was because it was Kostitsyn's contract year?

Tells you all you need to know about Martin.
Bingo

It tells you everything you need to know about the relationship between Martin and Kostitsyn.

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08-11-2011, 01:09 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
That's right, everyone is a racist except from you. And hockey fans are all very dumb people who can't see the difference between a player who gives his 100% every night and every shift, and another one who doesn't care most of the time, NO MATTER what his ethnic background his. It must feel weird being the only intelligent fan in Montreal, isn't it?

Andrei Markov, Alex Kovalev, Saku Koivu, Mats Naslund, etc. These players have been worshipped in Montreal, but hey, we're all a bunch of racists because we think Kostitsyn doesn't give a steady effort.
Yeah man everybody is a racist exept for me

Markov - has taken flack from some
Kovalev - has taken a bunch of flack
Koivu - always produced very well thus negated this criticism
Naslund - you must be joking, same exact thing.

And it boils down to some people hating Russians more-so than Euros in general in some cases.

The reason you think that is because you look at Kostitsyn through bias glasses. I'm not going to sit here and say he gave a consistent effort every single night, believe it or not a lot of players don't. But this year was by far his best year for giving an effort and he still doesn't get one ounce of respect from the haters. (On top of that Penner is just as "lazy" if not more (by everyone's definition) and people wanted to trade Kostitsyn + 1st + Weber for him. So yeah, your excuses don't hold any weight like a feather)

Sorry but when that happens yeah I think it becomes pretty obvious that some people are just bias either against Kostitsyn specifically or in general regarding Russians.

And big surprise, it's the same people that bashed all our other Russian players while fellating Lappy and others. Big shock once again.

Some people either need to just wake up or frankly look in the mirror. Just because some folks are full of BS and can't admit to themselves that they're haters doesn't make it any less true that they are. Plenty of people on here are haters and the only reason it isn't even more obvious is because of the awesome job many of the mods do. I'm guessing you're also one of those people who says the Subban hate isn't about race in the slightest even though other similar D in the NHL who are white get praise and nearly every youtube video on Subban has at some point had several people calling him the N word etc. But yeah I guess racism doesn't exist /rolleyes.

The bubble is back over there go back to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
AK is a mixed bag, this comment shows me he's not very bright which isn't really a surprise. Looks like he's a goner, too bad, he's a disappointment because he can't live up to his skill set but he's still a useful addition to this team and will be missed.


What I never get is how fans call him "lazy" and "soft", he's a terrible decision maker but he rarely floated last season.
Because "most fans" don't even know the definition of "floater" or "soft" they just hear what their friends and some retards in the media say and regurgitate the same crap meanwhile probably don't even watch the games or when they do are too drunk to even notice how the guy plays. We lose a game, Andrei isn't in the box score and people are already haters, automatically he must be "soft", or "lazy".

For people to call him lazy to me just proves they likely never played a week of an organized sport in their lives. The guy got to the NHL level playing on a teams first line. Believe me he didn't get there by being lazy. Such a dumb statement it's not even funny.


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08-11-2011, 01:13 PM
  #82
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Kostitsyn >>> Martin.

You mad, HF?

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08-11-2011, 01:21 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post

Because "most fans" don't even know the definition of "floater" or "soft" they just hear what their friends and some retards in the media say and regurgitate the same crap meanwhile probably don't even watch the games or when they do are too drunk to even notice how the guy plays. We lose a game, Andrei isn't in the box score and people are already haters, automatically he must be "soft", or "lazy".

For people to call him lazy to me just proves they likely never played a week of an organized sport in their lives. The guy got to the NHL level playing on a teams first line. Believe me he didn't get there by being lazy. Such a dumb statement it's not even funny.
Because us, drunk fans who are retarded and regurgitate everything in the media, are not allowed to criticize a player. We're also completely uneducated in the game of hockey because if a player is not in the box score, he sucks.

Also I got a job, I show up twice a week and call in sick the rest of the days to stay home and watch tv all day. I'm not lazy, 'cause at least I have a job.

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08-11-2011, 01:24 PM
  #84
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Andrei plays an average of 16 minutes a game. Pleks plays 20. I'm sure most of Pleks extra 4 minutes is PK time.

What a friggin crybaby. I want to like him, but I hate crybabies. I'm all for a trade. Get this crap off the team.

"I told Martin but he doesn't care.." Hey Andrea, your agent is right. Shut the **** up and play hockey you ****** bag. You get plenty of minutes to do some damage..........You just can't muster up the energy in your lazy ass.

Whiner

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08-11-2011, 01:25 PM
  #85
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If i'm not a fan of Andrei, is that make me a racist?

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08-11-2011, 01:28 PM
  #86
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AK has always been a streaky player, but it doesn't help if every time you start slumping you are off the PP and onto the 3rd or 4th line.

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08-11-2011, 01:34 PM
  #87
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I readily admit to being a semi-literate drunk who's easily lead by the media and never had any organized sports experience in my life. And I'd love to have an extremely comprehensive argument about whose fault this is. But what concerns me more is the solution to it. If Kostitsyn isn't going to be professional about this then he needs to be gone, and soon. The last thing this team needs is locker room poison. We've got enough **** stacked against us as it is.

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08-11-2011, 01:36 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Yeah man everybody is a racist exept for me

Markov - has taken flack from some
Kovalev - has taken a bunch of flack
Koivu - always produced very well thus negated this criticism
Naslund - you must be joking, same exact thing.

And it boils down to some people hating Russians more-so than Euros in general in some cases.

The reason you think that is because you look at Kostitsyn through bias glasses. I'm not going to sit here and say he gave a consistent effort every single night, believe it or not a lot of players don't. But this year was by far his best year for giving an effort and he still doesn't get one ounce of respect from the haters. (On top of that Penner is just as "lazy" if not more (by everyone's definition) and people wanted to trade Kostitsyn + 1st + Weber for him. So yeah, your excuses don't hold any weight like a feather)

Sorry but when that happens yeah I think it becomes pretty obvious that some people are just bias either against Kostitsyn specifically or in general regarding Russians.

And big surprise, it's the same people that bashed all our other Russian players while fellating Lappy and others. Big shock once again.

Some people either need to just wake up or frankly look in the mirror. Just because some folks are full of BS and can't admit to themselves that they're haters doesn't make it any less true that they are. Plenty of people on here are haters and the only reason it isn't even more obvious is because of the awesome job many of the mods do. I'm guessing you're also one of those people who says the Subban hate isn't about race in the slightest even though other similar D in the NHL who are white get praise and nearly every youtube video on Subban has at some point had several people calling him the N word etc. But yeah I guess racism doesn't exist /rolleyes.

The bubble is back over there go back to it.



Because "most fans" don't even know the definition of "floater" or "soft" they just hear what their friends and some retards in the media say and regurgitate the same crap meanwhile probably don't even watch the games or when they do are too drunk to even notice how the guy plays. We lose a game, Andrei isn't in the box score and people are already haters, automatically he must be "soft", or "lazy".

For people to call him lazy to me just proves they likely never played a week of an organized sport in their lives. The guy got to the NHL level playing on a teams first line. Believe me he didn't get there by being lazy. Such a dumb statement it's not even funny.
Listen. I'm not denying that racism exists and that some of the criticism directed toward Kostitsyn may be because of that. In fact, we can make a great parallel on this board with players from Quebec who are also overly criticized. While I think part of it can sometimes be attributed to racism, I also think some of the criticism is sometimes well deserved. I believe racism will really be defeated the day we'll be able to compliment or criticize players from any background the same way we do with other players, without being accused of a racial bias.

So back to Kostitsyn, what I find insulting in your defense of him is that you automatically assume that those saying he's not the most dedicated player have an anti-russian bias. I'm sorry, but that's false. I think any objective person who knows hockey is able to see it : Kostitsyn is inconsistent, he sometimes lacks passion, his effort is sometimes questionnable and his dedication to the team doesn't seem to be there always.

That has NOTHING to do with him being a russian. Nothing. Andrei is so full of talent, and when he's "on", he's truly spectacular and I really like him. But sadly, it never lasts. I don't care about ethnic background, but what I really care about is to build a team made of hardworkers and dedicated players like Gionta, Plekanec, Cammalleri, Gorges, Darche, Markov, Subban, etc. This is how you win in the NHL. This is not the Major League Baseball where you can win with the most talented players, no matter how caring or dedicated they are. Hockey is a game of chemistry and dedication. And I want the Habs players built in that mold.

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08-11-2011, 01:37 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post


Because "most fans" don't even know the definition of "floater" or "soft" they just hear what their friends and some retards in the media say and regurgitate the same crap meanwhile probably don't even watch the games or when they do are too drunk to even notice how the guy plays. We lose a game, Andrei isn't in the box score and people are already haters, automatically he must be "soft", or "lazy".

For people to call him lazy to me just proves they likely never played a week of an organized sport in their lives. The guy got to the NHL level playing on a teams first line. Believe me he didn't get there by being lazy. Such a dumb statement it's not even funny.

Not a dumb statement at all. Andrei is lazy. Kovalev is lazy. jagr is lazy..........

There are a lot of athletes that are gifted. Born with a talent way beyond other professional athletes. Problem is they are lazy. Therefore they are often out shined by lesser talent that is not Lazy.

Andrei is a very talented hockey player, no question, but he is clearly lazy. Just going through the motions at times. When Andrei drags his ass, I don't blame Martin for not putting him on the ice.

You would think after 7-8 years in North America Andrei could speak english, but he can barely do that, because he is so friggin Lazy.

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08-11-2011, 01:38 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
That's right, everyone is a racist except from you. And hockey fans are all very dumb people who can't see the difference between a player who gives his 100% every night and every shift, and another one who doesn't care most of the time, NO MATTER what his ethnic background his. It must feel weird being the only intelligent fan in Montreal, isn't it?

Andrei Markov, Alex Kovalev, Saku Koivu, Mats Naslund, etc. These players have been worshipped in Montreal, but hey, we're all a bunch of racists because we think Kostitsyn doesn't give a steady effort.
You mean 100pts+ scorer Mats Naslund? Flashy and 85 pts scorer Kovalev? Captain Saku Koivu? Top 10 defensemen Andrei Markov? Of course these players will be worshipped in Montreal, they are among the best players in the league. Koivu received a TON of hate during his stay in Montreal, and Markov was never given the credit he deserved. Some fans were actually disappointed that we signed him this season. Yeah.

Problem is Kostitsyn is not a 80pts+ player. He is good for 40-50pts. So I guess for a Russian it means that he sucks and doesn't care. He needs to carry the team on his back to get some credit.

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08-11-2011, 01:41 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by matCH penalty View Post
I readily admit to being a semi-literate drunk who's easily lead by the media and never had any organized sports experience in my life. And I'd love to have an extremely comprehensive argument about whose fault this is. But what concerns me more is the solution to it. If Kostitsyn isn't going to be professional about this then he needs to be gone, and soon. The last thing this team needs is locker room poison. We've got enough **** stacked against us as it is.

I say let him start the season. He won't raise a stink, he's to complacent. Put him in situations to succeed. Lot's of PP time. Let him get to a quick start and trade him after 20-30 games.

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08-11-2011, 01:57 PM
  #92
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If i'm not a fan of Andrei, is that make me a racist?
No - not in my eyes and I don't think that's what some are saying at all including myself. It's when a player is continually bashed even when stats or facts are presented to support that player. Or when player x is bashed for the same thing player y does but player y's actions are always justified.

I think generally speaking Euro players have to prove a lot more than a North American player to be somewhat accepted either by the media and / or some of the fanbase. I'd go so far to say that the totem pole looks like this roughly........

Canadian Player > US Player

US Player > Scandinavian Player

Scandanavian > Russian, Czech

And speaking for myself - I don't hold that against fans unless the bashing is extremely excessive and hateful. All sports and / or teams have heritage and history but just like with many things in the business world today it's becoming a global economy so opportunities are worldwide. This means your local heritage could be infringed upon by an "outsider".

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08-11-2011, 01:59 PM
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Reading Arpon Basu's article on the interview and I thought Kostisyn was incorrect about 1 thing. 1) it's not more difficult to score on the 3rd/4th line (at even-strength) since you're facing weaker competition with the way Martin employs matchups. If you lose your powerplay time in addition to dropping out of the top-6 your scoring will suffer, but that's because of the powerplay time.


Overall I think it's minor. Martin trusts Kostitsyn on the ice - more often than not under Martin Kostitsyn has been matched up with Plekanec against the opposition top line. With Cole coming in that may come to an end but the easier matchups should mean that his even-strength scoring rate gets better.

Wouldn't be the off-season without a very minor controversy to talk about. If we're lucky Gauthier makes a trade and we can move on .

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08-11-2011, 02:00 PM
  #94
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Here's a crazy thought, who cares?..
Things change.

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08-11-2011, 02:11 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CareyClutch View Post
If i'm not a fan of Andrei, is that make me a racist?
In neofury's eyes - YES!

He even tried to tell me I have an anti-Russian bias when I mentioned my dislike for AK.

Except I'm Russian myself.

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08-11-2011, 02:11 PM
  #96
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Meh. I'm starting to wonder just how much these types of comments are "dressed up" by the newspapers. It's either that, or every single Russian that every passed through our organization got the shaft, and I find that harder to believe than a journalist stirring the pot to get more readers or website hits.

That's the impression that I get, and I think a lot of people are prematurely jumping the gun here. People who think of themselves as level-headed (it seems negative bias is enough to conclude right off the bat really)....

If his agent condones this interview, if real, well, he's a really lousy agent, because this type of situation will only hurt AK when he hits the free market.

One way or another, it doesn't make any sense.

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08-11-2011, 02:17 PM
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08-11-2011, 02:19 PM
  #98
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Don Meehan is his agent so I don't think that's the issue here.
Which leads me to believe that AK didn't actually say things the way they were printed.

Meehan would be dumb to let him do this.

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08-11-2011, 02:19 PM
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Here's a crazy thought, who cares?..
Things change.
My thoughts coming into this thread.

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08-11-2011, 02:25 PM
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I like Andrei and I hope that we resign him. This is not a good sign (and I never really like a player whining openly to the media), but at the same time things can change tons over the course of a season. If he clicks with Eller again and goes on a tear for a while, he might be totally fine come next summer.

And hell, even as one of his fans I can recognize that some of the demoting was his own fault and that he lacks consistency at times (I disagree with a lot of the lazy talk though, I don't think that he doesn't work, I think that he's not always working intelligently). AK just seems to react very badly to being moved around. I totally disagreed with Martin throwing him on Gomez's line when he was owning on the first, but I doubt it was meant as a demotion, more as an attempt to make Gomez produce by giving him a different talented player on the wing (while giving Captain Gionta a chance to not have an aweful year). But when it didn't work out, Andrei just kinda phased out and seemed to stop giving his best, which Martin didn't like and then he truly demoted him (which sucks because I believe he would've kept going strong if he just stayed on the first).

Basically, AK seems to have a hard time to adapt and to bounce back against adversity. So if you find something that clicks for him, LEAVE HIM THERE. If you try moving him around to help another player, chances are it won't work and you'll lose AK at the same time, and it will take a while to get him back.

Wasn't it Plekanec saying something along the same line last year? That AK had a hard time not having PK time, and sometimes not much PP, and that he got demoralized about it. That's when he seems to slump. He takes any change that is not a clear upgrade as a negative thing and gets demoralized about it instead of taking it as motivation to play even better.

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