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Situation on defense?

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Old
08-15-2011, 02:43 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Proven, legitimate top 4 d-men are a pretty important commodity in the league. You can't just go out and get one like that. Wizniewski got overpaid (as UFA's tend to do), Markov got re-signed, Ehrhoff signed a ridiculous long deal, and Kaberle I wouldn't have really wanted anyways. WHo else was there?

But yes, lets all cry because if the habs look like a contender come midseason Gauthier has the assets and cap space to acquire a d-man if they think that's the right path to take.
Well it was an observation and continues to bite this team in the arse. This D the last 3 years has a strong history of injuries and lots of them and at the wrong time. If Subban or Markov is injured this D makes me very nervous because the other one is going to have quite the burden to shoulder.

Your first sentence is accurate and Gauthier chose to let two of them walk away from the Habs. I'm not crying over that but admittedly I'm questioning that.

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08-15-2011, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Well it was an observation and continues to bite this team in the arse. This D the last 3 years has a strong history of injuries and lots of them and at the wrong time. If Subban or Markov is injured this D makes me very nervous because the other one is going to have quite the burden to shoulder.

Your first sentence is accurate and Gauthier chose to let two of them walk away from the Habs. I'm not crying over that but admittedly I'm questioning that.
He didn't want to pay WIzniewski what he wanted per year, good on him.

He didn't want to give Hamrlik 2 years, good on him.

Much ado about nothing. Believe me, I don't like to see the habs constantly trading away draft picks...but honestly with scouting the way it is now your odds of getting an NHL'er with a 4th round pick (which the habs had 3 of last year) versus a 2nd round pick probably aren't astronomically different.

Then you add in college free agent signings as well as European free agent signings and the assets "lost" in trades can be replaced in various ways.

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08-15-2011, 03:13 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
He didn't want to pay WIzniewski what he wanted per year, good on him.

He didn't want to give Hamrlik 2 years, good on him.

Much ado about nothing. Believe me, I don't like to see the habs constantly trading away draft picks...but honestly with scouting the way it is now your odds of getting an NHL'er with a 4th round pick (which the habs had 3 of last year) versus a 2nd round pick probably aren't astronomically different.

Then you add in college free agent signings as well as European free agent signings and the assets "lost" in trades can be replaced in various ways.
I found no comfort in that answer when it comes to the "what if". We'll wait and see what happens.

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08-15-2011, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
I found no comfort in that answer when it comes to the "what if". We'll wait and see what happens.
Which what if?

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08-17-2011, 02:34 AM
  #80
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Audio update on Markov

http://www.ckac.com/hockey/nouvelles...rko-90714.html

He feels great, he enjoys tennis and he can't wait to show Yemelin the best titty bars in Montreal

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08-17-2011, 07:13 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by BobBarker View Post
http://www.ckac.com/hockey/nouvelles...rko-90714.html

He feels great, he enjoys tennis and he can't wait to show Yemelin the best titty bars in Montreal
He "hopes" to be ready? LOL

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08-17-2011, 08:06 AM
  #82
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Here's to hoping that Markov helps Emelin in his quest to become the next Anton Volchenkov .

Some of you guys are crying for more veterans, I say its about damn time that we have a spot or 2 open and let the prospects fight between themselves for the spot instead of trying to outplay a regular player, whitch you all know Martin would never let happen anyways. We're building a core thats surrounded by hard working veterans.

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08-17-2011, 08:46 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Here's to hoping that Markov helps Emelin in his quest to become the next Anton Volchenkov .

Some of you guys are crying for more veterans, I say its about damn time that we have a spot or 2 open and let the prospects fight between themselves for the spot instead of trying to outplay a regular player, whitch you all know Martin would never let happen anyways. We're building a core thats surrounded by hard working veterans.
Yemelin's skill level is a couple of notches above Volchenkov.

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08-17-2011, 08:53 AM
  #84
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I think in general terms, we are very deep on defense. We have 8 top 6 quality NHL defensemen, maybe 9 or 10 depending on how Mitera and Diaz look. The big question marks are, 1-who is going to step up and play #3-4 minutes(21-23 minutes) and 2-can Markov stay healthy for 70-75 games and be the impact player he was 2 years ago.

In an ideal world...Markov stays healthy, Gorges makes a full recovery, Yemelin has a seamless transition to NA hockey, Spacek bounces back and Weber takes the next step and we have 7 guys that can play top 4 minutes on a given night plus Woywitka for depth.

Worst case, Markov misses much of the year, Spacek keeps on declining, Yemelin struggles to adjust and we need Price to be an all-star to stay in the top 8.

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08-17-2011, 09:21 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Here's to hoping that Markov helps Emelin in his quest to become the next Anton Volchenkov .

Some of you guys are crying for more veterans, I say its about damn time that we have a spot or 2 open and let the prospects fight between themselves for the spot instead of trying to outplay a regular player, whitch you all know Martin would never let happen anyways. We're building a core thats surrounded by hard working veterans.
Exactly. And honestly I wouldn't be surprised if PG is doing this to force Martin to use those players. Had he signed Hammer and a few others obviously those guys who are long time NHL vets who aren't slowing down much are > rookie with no experience. This will force Martin to use rookies like he was forced to with Subban.

I actually like this, shows Gauthier knows how to get the best from his coach. He recognizes Jacques weakness when it comes to trusting young players and is likely putting him in a situation where he'll be forced to trust them and give them ice time.

As a GM if you know how to get the best out of your coach (because they all do have their ups and downs) then you're doing a good job. Had we signed Hannan or Hammer then I believe Weber or Emelin would have seen press box time quite more often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think in general terms, we are very deep on defense. We have 8 top 6 quality NHL defensemen, maybe 9 or 10 depending on how Mitera and Diaz look. The big question marks are, 1-who is going to step up and play #3-4 minutes(21-23 minutes) and 2-can Markov stay healthy for 70-75 games and be the impact player he was 2 years ago.

In an ideal world...Markov stays healthy, Gorges makes a full recovery, Yemelin has a seamless transition to NA hockey, Spacek bounces back and Weber takes the next step and we have 7 guys that can play top 4 minutes on a given night plus Woywitka for depth.

Worst case, Markov misses much of the year, Spacek keeps on declining, Yemelin struggles to adjust and we need Price to be an all-star to stay in the top 8.
Yeah

Markov = out for the season knee
Gorges = failed recovery terrible season
Spacek? waivers due to being so bad.
Weber? stunted development
Subban? Sophomore slump
Emelin? failed to make transition back to Russia
Diaz? stepped in but tough transition
Hammer? Wins the cup this year


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Yemelin's skill level is a couple of notches above Volchenkov.
If he becomes better than Volchenkov I will go nuts.


Last edited by neofury*: 08-17-2011 at 09:34 AM.
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08-17-2011, 09:56 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Exactly. And honestly I wouldn't be surprised if PG is doing this to force Martin to use those players. Had he signed Hammer and a few others obviously those guys who are long time NHL vets who aren't slowing down much are > rookie with no experience. This will force Martin to use rookies like he was forced to with Subban.

I actually like this, shows Gauthier knows how to get the best from his coach. He recognizes Jacques weakness when it comes to trusting young players and is likely putting him in a situation where he'll be forced to trust them and give them ice time.

As a GM if you know how to get the best out of your coach (because they all do have their ups and downs) then you're doing a good job. Had we signed Hannan or Hammer then I believe Weber or Emelin would have seen press box time quite more often.



Yeah

Markov = out for the season knee
Gorges = failed recovery terrible season
Spacek? waivers due to being so bad.
Weber? stunted development
Subban? Sophomore slump
Emelin? failed to make transition back to Russia
Diaz? stepped in but tough transition
Hammer? Wins the cup this year




If he becomes better than Volchenkov I will go nuts.
They are different players...Yemelin is more of a two way player in the mold of Phaneuf, big and skilled but at times makes bad decisions, while Volchenkov plays a very safe, stay at home shot blocking/finishing his checks game.

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08-17-2011, 10:40 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Nobody will be the odd man out... they only have 7 players so far. An 8th is needed. For the roster. For the opening night lineup, well, I expect Emelin will have to do an awful lot of impressing Martin in the pre-season to get ahead of Spacek. It doesn't seem like the Habs are very well prepared (yet) for the possibility that Emelin simply isn't able to cut it in the NHL.
Is Spacek the only Dman (Y)Emelin has a chance of beating out? He can't outdo Weber, Gill, and even Gorges? That remains to be seen.

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08-17-2011, 11:43 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Is Spacek the only Dman (Y)Emelin has a chance of beating out? He can't outdo Weber, Gill, and even Gorges? That remains to be seen.
Maybe Weber. Past that, who knows, the world is full of possibilities. If Emelin moved ahead of Gill or Gorges on the depth chart (sans injury factors), then I'd be shocked. Hopefully pleasantly shocked in the sense that Emelin turned out to be that good, as opposed to shocked that Gill or Gorges had deteriorated. Based on nothing but the rumblings of my prodigious gut, I would be less surprised if Emelin washed out and went back to Russia than if he leapfrogged those guys on the depth chart this year. Indeed, everything that remains to be seen does remain to be seen.

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08-17-2011, 01:07 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Is Spacek the only Dman (Y)Emelin has a chance of beating out? He can't outdo Weber, Gill, and even Gorges? That remains to be seen.
At some point he might end up getting more ice time than Gorges and Gill, but those two probably won't be scratched unless they are hurt. In terms of being in the lineup Yemelin will battle Spacek and Weber for the #5-6 slots, I think at times Weber will dress as #7 d-man and play a bit up front as well the PP point(I hope they don't do a lot of this, IMHO he has a lot more long term value on defense).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Maybe Weber. Past that, who knows, the world is full of possibilities. If Emelin moved ahead of Gill or Gorges on the depth chart (sans injury factors), then I'd be shocked. Hopefully pleasantly shocked in the sense that Emelin turned out to be that good, as opposed to shocked that Gill or Gorges had deteriorated. Based on nothing but the rumblings of my prodigious gut, I would be less surprised if Emelin washed out and went back to Russia than if he leapfrogged those guys on the depth chart this year. Indeed, everything that remains to be seen does remain to be seen.
My biggest concern with Yemelin is that he will start out like Subban in the 1st half last year, playing a bit too high risk(taking offensive chances and going for big hits) and Martin will end up cutting his ice time instead of being patient.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 08-17-2011 at 03:49 PM. Reason: merged
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08-17-2011, 01:19 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Yemelin's skill level is a couple of notches above Volchenkov.
Still to be proven at NHL level on a smaller ice surface and against stiffer competition.

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08-17-2011, 02:08 PM
  #91
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Exactly. And honestly I wouldn't be surprised if PG is doing this to force Martin to use those players. Had he signed Hammer and a few others obviously those guys who are long time NHL vets who aren't slowing down much are > rookie with no experience. This will force Martin to use rookies like he was forced to with Subban.

I actually like this, shows Gauthier knows how to get the best from his coach. He recognizes Jacques weakness when it comes to trusting young players and is likely putting him in a situation where he'll be forced to trust them and give them ice time.

As a GM if you know how to get the best out of your coach (because they all do have their ups and downs) then you're doing a good job. Had we signed Hannan or Hammer then I believe Weber or Emelin would have seen press box time quite more often.
What evidence do you have to support Martin's perceived "weakness" in developing defensemen?

Weber, Subban and Gorges have all thrived under Martin and Pearn.

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08-17-2011, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Still to be proven at NHL level on a smaller ice surface and against stiffer competition.
I think his skills are a given...wether he can adjust to the NHL game and ice surface is what remains to be priven. Skills alone don't make a good or great player, otherwise guys like Zherdev and Filatov would already be established NHL stars.

One thing that should help Yemelin is that his game...in your face and physical without the puck, good puck distributor and gets his shot on net...should transfer well to the NA/NHL game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
What evidence do you have to support Martin's perceived "weakness" in developing defensemen?

Weber, Subban and Gorges have all thrived under Martin and Pearn.
It's not so much about developing as being patient with young players. I don't think Yemelin needs developing but he'll probably make some mistakes early on, so if you bench him for Spacek/Woywitka every time he messes up his adjustment will take longer and he won't be as big a contributor as he should be. I can see easing him in the first 5-6 weeks but by December 1st he needs to have the training wheels off and be playing a bigger role, much like PK in the 2nd half last year.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 08-17-2011 at 03:49 PM. Reason: merged
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08-17-2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think his skills are a given...wether he can adjust to the NHL game and ice surface is what remains to be priven. Skills alone don't make a good or great player, otherwise guys like Zherdev and Filatov would already be established NHL stars.

One thing that should help Yemelin is that his game...in your face and physical without the puck, good puck distributor and gets his shot on net...should transfer well to the NA/NHL game.
He never played yet against guys like Lucic or others like him. He will find out soon that NHL rosters are pretty much filled with physical players that are stonger and more seasoned than him.

The KHL is barely better than the AHL talent-wise.

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08-17-2011, 02:57 PM
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He never played yet against guys like Lucic or others like him. He will find out soon that NHL rosters are pretty much filled with physical players that are stonger and more seasoned than him.

The KHL is barely better than the AHL talent-wise.
I'm sure he's played against guys a lot bigger than Lucic in the KHL. It will be an ajustment to the higher level just like it was for PK but the physical tools are there to be short adjustment period.

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08-17-2011, 03:04 PM
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Our D-CORP SHOULD had been this one:

Markov- Gorges
Hamrlik-Wiz
Gill-Subban
Weber (maybe Yemelin)...

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08-17-2011, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
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It's not so much about developing as being patient with young players. I don't think Yemelin needs developing but he'll probably make some mistakes early on, so if you bench him for Spacek/Woywitka every time he messes up his adjustment will take longer and he won't be as big a contributor as he should be. I can see easing him in the first 5-6 weeks but by December 1st he needs to have the training wheels off and be playing a bigger role, much like PK in the 2nd half last year.
You do remember that PK went through several benchings, and even a trip to the press box before Gorges went down. Was that 'being too hard' on the rookie? Sometimes getting sat out at the right moment is actually beneficial to ones development. Its up to the coach to make those calls.

Also, keep in mind, the main goal of the coach is to wins games. Ultimately, if a rookie makes mistakes that cost the team points in the standings, you can't always just have him 'play through' these mistakes. Sometimes the difference between making the playoffs and not is just a few points, so you can't just allow mistake after mistake without addressing the situation.

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08-17-2011, 03:35 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
He never played yet against guys like Lucic or others like him. He will find out soon that NHL rosters are pretty much filled with physical players that are stonger and more seasoned than him.

The KHL is barely better than the AHL talent-wise.
I think your selling him short. The KHL is significantly better than the AHL and a even in the NHL there aren't all that many players that weigh in at over 220 pounds like Yemelin. The average NHLer is probably significantly physically weaker than Yemelin.

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08-17-2011, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
They are different players...Yemelin is more of a two way player in the mold of Phaneuf, big and skilled but at times makes bad decisions, while Volchenkov plays a very safe, stay at home shot blocking/finishing his checks game.
Or he will be our Vladimir Konstatinov

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08-17-2011, 05:07 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Yemelin's skill level is a couple of notches above Volchenkov.
loooool no, man. No way. Yemelin can blow us away and perform outstandingly, but as it is right now, the A-train is a better positional d-man and he's a smarter hitter/picks his battles.

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08-17-2011, 05:24 PM
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loooool no, man. No way. Yemelin can blow us away and perform outstandingly, but as it is right now, the A-train is a better positional d-man and he's a smarter hitter/picks his battles.
I think he was refering more to his skill set with the puck on his stick, in which case I'd probably agree.

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