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If I have to read "Barbara Underhill's" name one more time....

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07-25-2011, 12:29 AM
  #1
Inferno
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If I have to read "Barbara Underhill's" name one more time....

I mean seriously guys....enough is enough....she helped boyle, we know...that doesnt make her a god...and frankly I think Boyles turnaround wasnt because of his legs, it was because of his brain. The guy finally realized he was bigger, heavier, and stronger than almost anyone on the ice, and finally started to use his body more...to hit, to shield the puck, and to put his weight into his shots...the skating was nice, but to me, it wasnt the be all end all...and frankly i think ppl are putting WAY too much stock into she-who-must-not-be-named.

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07-25-2011, 12:43 AM
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Proper skating does quite a lot for a hockey player. By teaching players how to put less effort into their stride, they can allocate that very effort into something else.

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07-25-2011, 12:44 AM
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Dude, Wolski's just been bad at skating his career. It hasn't been a lack of heart, intensity, hockey IQ, character...none of that. He's just been waiting for Barb Underhill to come and turn him into a 100 point player. UNDERHILL 2012!!!!

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07-25-2011, 12:46 AM
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Barbara Underhill
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Couldn't disagree with you more, Boyles skating improved which in turn gave him more confidence therefore his head followed his legs.

Barb Underhill is amazing.

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07-25-2011, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tube Sock View Post
Couldn't disagree with you more, Boyles skating improved which in turn gave him more confidence therefore his head followed his legs.

Barb Underhill is amazing.
I agree with this, but I have a problem with people who think she'll turn everyone around.

But I think Boyle's skating improvement clearly led him to becoming a better player.

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07-25-2011, 12:51 AM
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Barbara Underhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I agree with this, but I have a problem with people who think she'll turn everyone around.

But I think Boyle's skating improvement clearly led him to becoming a better player.
Yeah I don't know how others will react to her teachings but skating is undeniably important.


Last edited by Barbara Underhill: 07-25-2011 at 01:42 AM.
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07-25-2011, 12:55 AM
  #7
Bob Richards
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Honestly Boyle still doesn't realize how big he is. I think he still plays way too small.

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07-25-2011, 12:57 AM
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I agree. Sick of seeing discussions where any player who has skating problems can be sent to Underhill and all of sudden he will be a skating sensation

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07-25-2011, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Tube Sock View Post
Yeah I don't know how others will react to her teachings but skating is the undeniably important.
And evermore so since the lockout.

IMO the learned what they could do with Brian Boyle. Since his success they've brought her closer to the organization and had her working regularly with Hartford. Now the organization has several of their players working with her over the summer. She's one step away from working for the organization exclusively and I'm sure if the Rangers could, she would be.

The question becomes, why would the Rangers be having her work with their pro players and developing prospects every chance they can, if she wasn't making some progress?

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07-25-2011, 01:33 AM
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If Stepan ever transformed his skating the way Boyle has, oh boy, watch out.... I think the kid needs to predominantly focus his training on his legs and his skating, at least in the short-term future... You can tell he processes the game out on the ice at a high level and improving his skating would really give him the time and space to utilize that ability with increased effectiveness and results... Right how his skating is a hindrance rather than an asset to his game...

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07-25-2011, 02:20 AM
  #11
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I worship at her alter

Hopefully she works some of her mojo on Wolski.

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07-25-2011, 02:27 AM
  #12
Barbara Underhill
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I already feel like a better skater.

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07-25-2011, 02:29 AM
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No doubt Underhill helped improve Boyle's skating, but I think Boyle's turnaround can also be attributed to hard work and addressing deficiencies in his game (i.e., not being physical enough at his size - although I do think there is still room for improvement in this area). Boyle was fighting for a spot on the team at training camp last year and many had written him off, so I think self-motivation factored in heavily in addition to Underhill.

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07-25-2011, 02:31 AM
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Agree and disagree, Inferno.

The Barb Underhill fad reminds me a lot of Gary Robert's summer training program. Stamkos gave Roberts credit on his fantastic sophomore season (when in reality, a majority of that success came from him getting comfortable with playing in the NHL, it's as simple as that) and people started going ape ****. I remember some people saying that the news of Del Zotto training with Roberts was the best news of the offseason, that's ridiculous. Look how it turned out.

Boyle's skating improved greatly, no doubt, so Underhill should receive some credit, but it was mainly in his head. I think it hit him in the preseason when he was on the cutting board; he had that 2 goal exhibition game where he was skating with confidence and poise. He always had the ability to skate the puck end to end, he demonstrated it the year before as well. He was mentally prepared for the season and it showed.

As for other Rangers players skating with Underhill, it's not like these guys were never given skating lessons growing up, any player that hopes to make the NHL has trained with someone before, this isn't some newfound discovery. You are not going to see distinct improvements in every player, in fact probably none of them.

In the long run, players like Stepan, Del Zotto and Anisimov could certainly benefit from consistent skating coaching, but an appearance at a prospect camp and for a few days over the summer is not going to change much.

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07-25-2011, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
I mean seriously guys....enough is enough....she helped boyle, we know...that doesnt make her a god...and frankly I think Boyles turnaround wasnt because of his legs, it was because of his brain. The guy finally realized he was bigger, heavier, and stronger than almost anyone on the ice, and finally started to use his body more...to hit, to shield the puck, and to put his weight into his shots...the skating was nice, but to me, it wasnt the be all end all...and frankly i think ppl are putting WAY too much stock into she-who-must-not-be-named.
His improved skating boosted his confidence level big time, and he committed himself to being the type of hockey player that people told him he could be. It clicked, and the skating was what started the process... Not only did Boyle break out with 21 goals, but he lead the team in hits (credited with 100 more hits than Staal), and lead all forwards in blocked shots... To be fair, Callahan would have surpassed him in both categories had he stayed healthy, but the point is that Boyle did not just improve one area of his game, he improved in many. His work with Underhill was the catalyst for his improvements in his game, no doubt. Both from a technical perspective, and from a confidence standpoint. The question remains to be seen, how other players will respond from similar training with the same individual. Certainly each player has a unique set of circumstances and their aptitude for improvement is going to depend in large part to their individual drive to get better and also be influenced by their natural athleticism and their current skill-sets. Many areas of Boyle's game were low points, prior to last season... So when he improved his skating and simultaneously improved these other areas of the game, the impact or difference you noticed, was quite impressive... With some of these other players, they may already be stronger in areas of their games that Boyle wasn't, so even if they do improve their skating, you might not see as dramatic of an impact on their current games as you know them. But that's not to say these players cannot improve their games by influencing one of the few hockey attributes that you can actually exert some degree of control over. I would think to do otherwise, would seem foolish.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 07-25-2011 at 02:41 AM.
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07-25-2011, 03:03 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Agree and disagree, Inferno.

The Barb Underhill fad reminds me a lot of Gary Robert's summer training program. Stamkos gave Roberts credit on his fantastic sophomore season (when in reality, a majority of that success came from him getting comfortable with playing in the NHL, it's as simple as that) and people started going ape ****. I remember some people saying that the news of Del Zotto training with Roberts was the best news of the offseason, that's ridiculous. Look how it turned out.

Boyle's skating improved greatly, no doubt, so Underhill should receive some credit, but it was mainly in his head. I think it hit him in the preseason when he was on the cutting board; he had that 2 goal exhibition game where he was skating with confidence and poise. He always had the ability to skate the puck end to end, he demonstrated it the year before as well. He was mentally prepared for the season and it showed.

As for other Rangers players skating with Underhill, it's not like these guys were never given skating lessons growing up, any player that hopes to make the NHL has trained with someone before, this isn't some newfound discovery. You are not going to see distinct improvements in every player, in fact probably none of them.

In the long run, players like Stepan, Del Zotto and Anisimov could certainly benefit from consistent skating coaching, but an appearance at a prospect camp and for a few days over the summer is not going to change much.
First Del Zotto not having success last year doesn't discredit Gary Robert's training regimen. It's a strength and conditioning thing of course it's not going to improve his defensive awareness. Stamkos wasn't nearly as strong in his rookie season and it was a combination of hard work and feeling more comfortable in the NHL sure.

Second skating isn't something you have to be coached on consistently it's something that a few sessions will drastically improve IF you retain the information and continue to put it to work. Now if you have a breakdown of your stride mid season then you can hit up the skating coach and they can reverse that issue. I don't know if you skate but after just an hour with a coach you'd already have things pin pointed that need changed. It's not like strength and conditioning where you have to do it several hours a day every day to see results.

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07-25-2011, 03:17 AM
  #17
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The big thing to remember is that only you can truly improve yourself.

So it's nice that all these guys saw Boyle's improvement and saw what Underhill could do, but you can't expect everyone to have the same results.

It's like if someone graduated from high school to become a rocket scientist and then all of a sudden everyone expects every student that takes a science class there to become the same. It's just not going to happen.

Something tells me that all these guys jumping on the Underhill bandwagon simply won't see the vast improvement to their game that Boyle did, if nothing else because they saw what happened with Boyle and said "yeah, sure, I'll try that out." not "I really need help with my skating, I should see what I can do to fix it" and just so happened that they knew Boyle had worked on his with Underhill and they'd seek her help.

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07-25-2011, 05:53 AM
  #18
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I pretty much agree, every other posting in any wolski or mza thread is he's working with underhill! Big ****in whoop, newsflash every player works out with trainers and over the summer, just because we know her name and boyle improved after some skating lessons doesn't make her the second coming of Jesus Christ.

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07-25-2011, 05:56 AM
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Boyle himself acknowledges Barbara for saving his career to an extent.

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07-25-2011, 06:07 AM
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She completely changed the course of Boyle's career... I recall Tortarella making a remark that he expected Boyle to be in Hartford this past year. Instead, he's an important cog and earned a nice new contract. Boyle looked like he was running on skates originally but now has a great stride... I hope be bought Underhill an amazing christmas gift, because she won him his contract...

With that said, I'm sick and tired of hearing that every player will have Pavel Bure speed after a summer with her. Let's calm ourselves a bit... don't get over-excited about Ranger fluff pieces..

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07-25-2011, 06:58 AM
  #21
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While I agree that reading Barb's name all over the place is getting pretty tiresome, the result of Boyle training with her is undeniable. I'm not sure if this has been posted yet but it really is amazing to see how much faster his strides became after working with her. There is some great side by side video of his before and after. Check it out:



This was a feature during intermission in one of the games towards the beginning of the season. Really good stuff.

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07-25-2011, 06:59 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
I mean seriously guys....enough is enough....she helped boyle, we know...that doesnt make her a god...and frankly I think Boyles turnaround wasnt because of his legs, it was because of his brain. The guy finally realized he was bigger, heavier, and stronger than almost anyone on the ice, and finally started to use his body more...to hit, to shield the puck, and to put his weight into his shots...the skating was nice, but to me, it wasnt the be all end all...and frankly i think ppl are putting WAY too much stock into she-who-must-not-be-named.
I haven't seen her mentioned all that much here...but I'll have to disagree here, skating ability is the foundation and everything follows from there. I will agree with you on the brain part, but part of that is identifying a part of your game that is weak and taking efforts to improve that, I'll also agree that she is not the be all end all...I'm sure she couldn't make me an NHL player even if I spent a few years with here...there has to be other talents.

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07-25-2011, 07:52 AM
  #23
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I agree with Inferno.

We shouldn't be happy that she taught Boyle how to skate, improving his game. And we should be pissed that she's working with Prust and Wolski to improve their skating. If she works with any more Ranger players, I might have to quit being a fan.

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07-25-2011, 10:24 AM
  #24
Inferno
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Agree and disagree, Inferno.

The Barb Underhill fad reminds me a lot of Gary Robert's summer training program. Stamkos gave Roberts credit on his fantastic sophomore season (when in reality, a majority of that success came from him getting comfortable with playing in the NHL, it's as simple as that) and people started going ape ****. I remember some people saying that the news of Del Zotto training with Roberts was the best news of the offseason, that's ridiculous. Look how it turned out.

Boyle's skating improved greatly, no doubt, so Underhill should receive some credit, but it was mainly in his head. I think it hit him in the preseason when he was on the cutting board; he had that 2 goal exhibition game where he was skating with confidence and poise. He always had the ability to skate the puck end to end, he demonstrated it the year before as well. He was mentally prepared for the season and it showed.

As for other Rangers players skating with Underhill, it's not like these guys were never given skating lessons growing up, any player that hopes to make the NHL has trained with someone before, this isn't some newfound discovery. You are not going to see distinct improvements in every player, in fact probably none of them.

In the long run, players like Stepan, Del Zotto and Anisimov could certainly benefit from consistent skating coaching, but an appearance at a prospect camp and for a few days over the summer is not going to change much.
this is EXACTLY how i see it bro. im not trying to discredit Boyles stride getting fixed..i know it did, i know it helped, but its not the be all end all, shes not the first skating coach...its just like RangerDanger said, its just because ppl know her name and Boyle had a pretty lucky first half (and did almost nothing the 2nd half offensively) that ppl think shes the second coming of Chr....err...you know.

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07-25-2011, 10:51 AM
  #25
vipernsx
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Boyle has always had the body. Boyle has always had the desire. Boyle has always had the commitment. Boyle has always had the passion. Boyle has always had a solid skillset. You don't get drafted as high as he did in as good as a draft as he was drafted in unless you have these things or you're being drafted by a schmuck who can't judge talent.

The difference between a really good AHL player like Jarkko Immonen and that player being able to succeed in the NHL is their ability to keep up with the pace and speed of the NHL and Brian Boyle couldn't. Sometimes it's a players ability to think the game, like Andrew Cogliano, other times and more often in big players it's their ability to skate.

Brian Boyle's ability to skate, put him in the positions to allow his other skills and his size to do the rest.

He doesn't use his size to(intimidate) protect the puck and his shot to score, if he first doesn't beat everyone up the ice.

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