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salei/biron score in arbitration

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Old
08-09-2004, 04:12 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs
I agree. Buf should walk away from this award. 2.8 million for a 1A goaltender is a lot of money for a fiscal franchise. They have other options that are just a good and they can save some money in the process.
What a pitiful waste of an asset that would be. Why wouldn't they just accept the award and trade him?

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08-09-2004, 04:16 PM
  #27
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Much question is how could a arbitrator possibly conclude that Biron is as good a player as Kim Johnsson. How were both awarded the same amount when one is clearly a much superior player.

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08-09-2004, 04:18 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gags1288
Much question is how could a arbitrator possibly conclude that Biron is as good a player as Kim Johnsson. How were both awarded the same amount when one is clearly a much superior player.
Different posistions.

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08-09-2004, 04:25 PM
  #29
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This hawk fan would scoop up Salei very quickly at that price... Salei is not fun to play against and is exactly the kind of Dman you want in front of the crease, hacking away irking forwards...


-fullmetalninja

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08-09-2004, 04:32 PM
  #30
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Seeing how Biron got 2.8 mil, I'm very glad that Nonis struck a deal with Cloutier before his arbitration hearing. I'm confident Cloutier would have got significantly more than 3 million.

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08-09-2004, 04:33 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
What a pitiful waste of an asset that would be. Why wouldn't they just accept the award and trade him?
I would expect that the market for Biron making $2.8M would be limited, especially with Weekes available for no assets, and probably a smaller salary. Add in that other GM's know that Regier has to move one of his goalies this year, and it makes it tougher to get a decent return for Biron.

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08-09-2004, 04:40 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gags1288
Much question is how could a arbitrator possibly conclude that Biron is as good a player as Kim Johnsson. How were both awarded the same amount when one is clearly a much superior player.
That's simple, defenseman aren't used as comparables for goalies. Unfortunately, $2.8 million is about right for a goalie like Biron. A good comparable is Jocelyn Thibault who makes $3.1 million.

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08-09-2004, 04:46 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
I would expect that the market for Biron making $2.8M would be limited, especially with Weekes available for no assets, and probably a smaller salary. Add in that other GM's know that Regier has to move one of his goalies this year, and it makes it tougher to get a decent return for Biron.
I don't know about that. If a team really likes Biron and doesn't think as highly about Weekes then there could easily be some interest. Young goalies who have played and proven themselves as #1's are a rare thing and I'd think to think there would be several teams out there interested.

I guess it depends on what your definition of "decent return" is but I'm sure there are teams out there interested in Biron. I know I would be if I had 2.8 million to spend and an extra goalie spot (starter or backup.)

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08-09-2004, 04:53 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
What a pitiful waste of an asset that would be. Why wouldn't they just accept the award and trade him?
You would think it would be asset to accept the award and try to trade him. However, there is no market for a 1A inconsistent goalie making 2.8 million.

So, Buf would just be maintaining the status quo by accepting the award and continuing on.

The best part of this offseason was when teams just let players walk where the salaries were excessive. As we have seen, the closer the we got to arbitration, teams are doing the same thing as every other year. Just accepting whatever the arbitrator awarded and going with it.

Then, say Biron has a stand out season. He wants a 3yr deal. Boom - he works off the 2.8 mil in arbitration to say he wants 3.5-4 mil. This is where the arbitration has hurt the league and teams lacking the guts to just walk away like the Bruins do.

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08-09-2004, 04:54 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
I don't know about that. If a team really likes Biron and doesn't think as highly about Weekes then there could easily be some interest. Young goalies who have played and proven themselves as #1's are a rare thing and I'd think to think there would be several teams out there interested.

I guess it depends on what your definition of "decent return" is but I'm sure there are teams out there interested in Biron. I know I would be if I had 2.8 million to spend and an extra goalie spot (starter or backup.)
Well, what has Biron proven as a #1 goaltender? I think he is an average starting goaltender that has some serious consistency issues. It's hard to evaluate a goalie that played on a team that really struggled over the last couple of years (same issue with T-Bo), which makes Biron's value hard to determine. I just remember Noronen getting several chances to be the #1 over the last couple of years, which leads me to believe that Biron wasn't as well like by Ruff as you would think. Those chance might of been due to injury, but I'm not completely certain. Some help from a BUFF fan?


I do agree that the arbitration award was reasonable considering recent contract signings (T-Bo, Vokoun). I don't think that most GM's would look at Biron as a substantial upgrade over Weekes. You are correct to state that all's it takes is one GM to really like him, and he'd get picked up.

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08-09-2004, 04:55 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
Seeing how Biron got 2.8 mil, I'm very glad that Nonis struck a deal with Cloutier before his arbitration hearing. I'm confident Cloutier would have got significantly more than 3 million.
Agreed.
I think both sides signed the deal because Cloutier new if he got 3.5 he might not come back, and he wanted to stay. Also, he wants the fans on his side, so he thinks that buy avioding arbitration it shows his commitment to improving here.

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08-09-2004, 04:57 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed
That's simple, defenseman aren't used as comparables for goalies. Unfortunately, $2.8 million is about right for a goalie like Biron. A good comparable is Jocelyn Thibault who makes $3.1 million.
I disagree here. Thibault has spent more time in the league and has proven he is a starter. Biron has not and he has less time in the league. Thibault has backed his team to the playoffs. Biron has not.

While both are inconsistent (Biron much more than Tibo), putting Biron in the 2.8 million bracket is setting a poor platform. That being, 2.5+ is an acceptable salary for a 1A goalie.

Vokoun was just resigned [granted signings are different than arbitration] for around 3million. That was a fair salary. Is Biron similar to Vokuon? Not in my opinion.

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08-09-2004, 05:30 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs
I disagree here. Thibault has spent more time in the league and has proven he is a starter. Biron has not and he has less time in the league. Thibault has backed his team to the playoffs. Biron has not.

While both are inconsistent (Biron much more than Tibo), putting Biron in the 2.8 million bracket is setting a poor platform. That being, 2.5+ is an acceptable salary for a 1A goalie.

Vokoun was just resigned [granted signings are different than arbitration] for around 3million. That was a fair salary. Is Biron similar to Vokuon? Not in my opinion.
Statiscally Biron comes out ahead. That's what the arbitrator looks at. I forgot about Vokoun. He certainly makes a good comparable and I'm sure he was used.

Biron
SEVEN (7) NHL SEASONS(GP Min W L T GA GAA Shots Sv SO )
246 13774 101 103 25 560 2.44 6290 0.911 17

Vokoun
SEVEN (7) NHL SEASONS ( GP Min W L T GA GAA Shots Sv% SO)

269 15607 98 129 35 662 2.55 7310 0.909 12

Thibeault
ELEVEN (11) NHL SEASONS (GP Min W L T GA GAA Shots Sv% SO)
536 30477 227 217 68 1368 2.69 14436 0.905 36

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Old
08-09-2004, 05:32 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
Where did I mention any stats in my post? I said he had a great season last year and he did. He's vastly underrated on these boards.

BIRON IS AWESOME!!!!! WAY BETTER THAN HASEK!!!!!! 2.8 MILLION IS A STEAL!!!!!!! ANOTHER PITCHER OF THE JIM JONES GRAPE KOOL-AID PLEASE!!!!!



:lol :lol :lol :lol :mad:


Walk away Regier, you twit....walk away from the arbitrator.

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08-09-2004, 05:47 PM
  #40
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I was expecting Salei to get around 2.2 but 2.4 isnt that much as people are making it out to be. And hes not a #4, he led the team in ice time last year and had to carry the load when Ozo and Carney were hampered with injuries.

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08-09-2004, 06:09 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Except that Lapointe was signed as an UFA. RFA's shouldn't be making the same money as UFA's and as such the comparison shouldn't be valid. I don't think you can use UFA signings to make your case.
The example was bad, but the point is valid. Any RFA contract has the potential to raise the salary expectations of all other players. One guy (Pronger at 10 million for example) can ruin the system.

I don't mind this as much as the fact that once you sign an RFA you can never back off on his salary if he fails to preform to that level. Rights should be retained with a 50% qualifying offer instead of 100% (or 110%). If the player doesn't want the pay cut he can then go to arbitration and try to justify a larger salary.

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08-09-2004, 07:10 PM
  #42
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Salei's and Biron's awards have been accepted. TSN says Biron's is, and MightyDucks.com says Salei's is.

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08-09-2004, 07:17 PM
  #43
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yeah, Ducks agreed to sign Salei to the 2.4 million one year contract.

If they had walked away they would have only been able to match offers he got up to 80% and teams easily would give him 2-2.5 a year. Look at what Chicago and Phoenix have been doing.

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08-09-2004, 08:01 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur
Say the Ducks choose to walk away from the ruling, does anybody think a team would sign Salei for more than 80% of the arbitrator's ruling? 80% of 2.4 mil is 1.92 mil.

The Ducks would have the right to match if Salei signed an offer sheet for less than 1.92 mil.
exactly .. the owners dont have to accept the arbitration, they have recourse.

use it for petes sake.

dr

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08-09-2004, 08:07 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Young goalies who have played and proven themselves as #1's are a rare thing and I'd think to think there would be several teams out there interested.
well, if Biron qualifies as a rare assett, then the team should have no problem paying him the 2,8m. if the team sees him as redundant, its a waste of money and they should release him.

fiscal responsibility isnt always painless. it takes balls. if you dont have the balls to control your own destiny, then dont come whining when the other party wont do it for you. seriously, how can the owners in BUF complain that they need a salary cap while at the same time not walking away from this award. if they cant afford to carry the three contracts, then DONT ! how hard is that ? no one is making them pay Biron anything, unless they agreee to.

the owners make me sick. walk away if he is too much, if you would be upset about losing him, then sign him and shut up. its not that hard.

dr

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08-09-2004, 08:50 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by DementedReality
well, if Biron qualifies as a rare assett, then the team should have no problem paying him the 2,8m. if the team sees him as redundant, its a waste of money and they should release him.

fiscal responsibility isnt always painless. it takes balls. if you dont have the balls to control your own destiny, then dont come whining when the other party wont do it for you. seriously, how can the owners in BUF complain that they need a salary cap while at the same time not walking away from this award. if they cant afford to carry the three contracts, then DONT ! how hard is that ? no one is making them pay Biron anything, unless they agreee to.

the owners make me sick. walk away if he is too much, if you would be upset about losing him, then sign him and shut up. its not that hard.

dr

Don't see them *****ing.

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08-09-2004, 08:50 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
exactly .. the owners dont have to accept the arbitration, they have recourse.

use it for petes sake.

dr
The Ducks would then lose Salei for nothing because there are teams out there that would sign him for 2 million a year.

Anaheim made the right decision by not walking away.

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08-09-2004, 08:52 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
well, if Biron qualifies as a rare assett, then the team should have no problem paying him the 2,8m. if the team sees him as redundant, its a waste of money and they should release him.

fiscal responsibility isnt always painless. it takes balls. if you dont have the balls to control your own destiny, then dont come whining when the other party wont do it for you. seriously, how can the owners in BUF complain that they need a salary cap while at the same time not walking away from this award. if they cant afford to carry the three contracts, then DONT ! how hard is that ? no one is making them pay Biron anything, unless they agreee to.

the owners make me sick. walk away if he is too much, if you would be upset about losing him, then sign him and shut up. its not that hard.

dr


Walk away.

Management balls = Walking away, say arbitrater award was too high for what Biron has accomplished, Noronen and Miller can do the same, Biron got #1 salary for #1A, and we do not think his salary is in line with our budget, we will use that money to sign another player (Forward/Defense).

Too bad 90% of Teams are afraid to do this. If teams walked away from awards more often, you would see less players file for arbitration and sign 'safety' deals.

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08-09-2004, 08:55 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDonald19
The Ducks would then lose Salei for nothing because there are teams out there that would sign him for 2 million a year.

Anaheim made the right decision by not walking away.
So what?

The Ducks are trying to cut costs. You cut costs by not resigning players or trading them.

Here's the problem with arbitration. Everyone, I mean everyone, fears the "nothing" return. Because "nothing" in the minds of people means some physical presence present or future. The "nothing" is 2 million OFF your balance sheet = something.

How is a 4th round pick different than $2 million. It's not. It's the same, but fans/GM's think a pick is VALUE, but $ is NOT. That is absurd.

Everyone always wants a player, pick, etc... for something. However, $ is $ and when you are not able to technically afford players, then you cut them loose. Find the alternative from within or find a cheaper alternative on the market.

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08-09-2004, 09:13 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Moskau
Don't see them *****ing.
huh ?

dr

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