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Which Koivu should be captain in Sochi?

View Poll Results: Which Koivu should be captain in Sochi?
Saku Koivu 13 22.41%
Mikko Koivu 45 77.59%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-22-2013, 05:28 AM
  #1
TAnnala
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Which Koivu should be captain in Sochi?

Which one?

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11-22-2013, 05:32 AM
  #2
Gaps
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Mikko. No doubt about it.

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11-22-2013, 09:40 AM
  #3
Emppu
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Mikko. No doubt about it.
This

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11-22-2013, 11:27 AM
  #4
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11-22-2013, 11:30 AM
  #5
FinRuutu
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Mikko for sure.

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11-22-2013, 07:00 PM
  #6
FiLe
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Saku was a great captain. He was the face, heart and soul of Team Finland in many, many tournaments. Many players of his own generation looked up to him and followed the example he set.

However, out of that generation, only five players will likely see ice in Sochi: Apart from Saku himself, the odds are Teemu, Timonen, Salo and OJ will be there.

The remaining players of that squad, roughly 20, represent a new generation.

And the face, heart and soul of that generation is not Saku, but Mikko Koivu.

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11-22-2013, 07:14 PM
  #7
Loffer
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Kimmo Timonen for captain. We have had enough Koivus as captain. Something else for change thnks.

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11-23-2013, 12:15 AM
  #8
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Kimmo Timonen for captain. We have had enough Koivus as captain. Something else for change thnks.
No. It's either Mikko or Saku and that is perfectly justifiable. Kimmo is mire than capable of being the captain, but it really isn't his job.


Looks like Mikko is the popular choice.

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Old
11-23-2013, 10:17 AM
  #9
Raimo Sillanpää
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Mikko, I wouldn't even take Saku to Sochi based on his play

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11-23-2013, 01:33 PM
  #10
Metalcommand
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It's Mikko's team now. Has been for a while actually. And who knows if Saku can even play if his concussion problems continue. Why in God's name there isn't an emoticon portraying a man letting go one single manly tear!?

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11-23-2013, 03:46 PM
  #11
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I would be interested if somebody actually would prefer Saku. Absolutely nothing against Saku, but pretty much what FiLe said.

And didn't even Koivu say in urheiluruutu interview this year that the new generation should carry that C? Or am I imagining that?

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11-23-2013, 05:49 PM
  #12
vsk92
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Can't/shouldn't take the captaincy away from Mikko, he's been the leader for recent times and doing so doesn't send out a good message for the future. Only if Mikko wants to give it up for a last hoorah for Saku then do it.

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11-24-2013, 03:19 AM
  #13
Gaps
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This is going to be Mikko's team even if you give the C to Saku. He would pretty much be captain in name only. I have a hard time believing Saku would even want that as I think it would feel awkward. Then we have the issue of the team probably wanting it to be Mikko (in a similar way to the fans). Disregarding the opinion of the majority sure wouldn't make the coach look good in the eyes of the players who are going to be sticking around.

This is also a question of the message you want to send out, most importantly to the team and to the younger players who dream of making the team one day. Symbolically Saku's captaincy wouldn't be a wise move. There are other ways of showing respect than naming someone honorary captain (which I think is a move for fools).

This is not a matter of people hating on Saku in the least, this is about what is best for the team and the fact that Saku being captain over Mikko would not bring any added value for the team. In the best case scenario it would change nothing, and in the worst case scenario it would harm the team.


Last edited by Gaps: 11-24-2013 at 03:25 AM.
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Old
11-24-2013, 10:22 AM
  #14
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
Then we have the issue of the team probably wanting it to be Mikko (in a similar way to the fans). Disregarding the opinion of the majority sure wouldn't make the coach look good in the eyes of the players who are going to be sticking around.
Captains come in all shapes and sizes, so I don't think the team would have any trouble accepting a legend like Saku as their captain - as long as he also intends to behave like one. If he is willing to handle every aspect that comes with the letter, then fine. But if he's going to be captain for ceremonial purposes only while it still falls upon his brother to rally the troops, then it's obvious the letter is on the chest of a wrong man.

Saku can still become the mental core of this team if he wants, but that would require him believing he still is the best man for the job. And given his recent comments, that faith is flickering. He probably knows already that like the rest of the old guard, his job in Sochi is to help the team - the burden of carrying it now rests on other shoulders.


Given how each team is a microcosm of its own, I figure the players would adapt no matter what. However, for us fans it obviously matters more. And that is an important message for Erkka to consider. Is this team the Lions of today... or yesterday?

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11-24-2013, 11:11 AM
  #15
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Who should be the captain then? Well, anybody capabale - not Aaltonen but anybody capable. And there are plenty of candidates as such. Given this, it should be given to one of these big time veteran players as an acknowledgement. So, Saku Koivu or Kimmo Timonen. Take your pick.

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11-24-2013, 11:29 AM
  #16
FiLe
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While there are plenty of capable leaders in any given team, the one you pick is the one who is the most capable - both on and off the ice. The guy you want out there when it becomes the time to drag the team through hell and highwater.

If your best leader is also your most merited player, it's not a bad combination by any means. But bypassing the best one simply because you want it as an "acknowledgement" for services rendered or whatever, is complete pish.

But if you want a player picked by those qualities, the guy to go is neither Saku or Timonen, but Selänne.


However, he is not an option on the table any more than Timonen is, because Erkka has already stated that the choice will be either Koivu or Koivu - take your pick.


In the end, the factor that will decide is whether Saku wants to take the mane and roar one last time, or if he thinks his brother now has a voice that will carry further.

Another quality of a great leader is to know when to step down.

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11-24-2013, 11:51 AM
  #17
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^ Well, just trying to put some life to this discussion.

Everybody has known from the day one that the captain will be Mikko Koivu. So, what's the point of this thread, anyway? To make some noise out of nothing, I guess.

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11-24-2013, 12:06 PM
  #18
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Everybody has known from the day one that the captain will be Mikko Koivu. So, what's the point of this thread, anyway? To make some noise out of nothing, I guess.
I'd say it's a topic worth discussing, if only for the famous Erkka factor alone. Can't completely count out which one the coach will favor.

The fact that Erkka even keeps Saku as an option on the table tells us he still has a soft spot for him. I've got this vibe Saku's still the one he wants to ask first, and only hand it to Mikko if Saku flat out refuses or at the very least tells him that he, too, prefers his brother.

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11-24-2013, 12:23 PM
  #19
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If captain is Koivu, then Mikko.

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11-24-2013, 01:18 PM
  #20
SoupyFIN
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Jukka.

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Old
11-24-2013, 02:45 PM
  #21
Gaps
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Captains come in all shapes and sizes, so I don't think the team would have any trouble accepting a legend like Saku as their captain - as long as he also intends to behave like one. If he is willing to handle every aspect that comes with the letter, then fine. But if he's going to be captain for ceremonial purposes only while it still falls upon his brother to rally the troops, then it's obvious the letter is on the chest of a wrong man.

Saku can still become the mental core of this team if he wants, but that would require him believing he still is the best man for the job. And given his recent comments, that faith is flickering. He probably knows already that like the rest of the old guard, his job in Sochi is to help the team - the burden of carrying it now rests on other shoulders.
That is my point exactly. The way I see it, we would be asking Mikko to captain the team even without the C. That's the problem. If Erkka puts too much faith in guys like Teemu and Saku, this team will not be successful. They can't save this team anymore. They are background singers in this show.

I agree with what you said about knowing when to step down being a sign of a good leader. I actually have more faith in Saku in this issue than Erkka. Even if the coach is not living in 2013, Saku is (based on his statements at least).


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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
I'd say it's a topic worth discussing, if only for the famous Erkka factor alone. Can't completely count out which one the coach will favor.

The fact that Erkka even keeps Saku as an option on the table tells us he still has a soft spot for him. I've got this vibe Saku's still the one he wants to ask first, and only hand it to Mikko if Saku flat out refuses or at the very least tells him that he, too, prefers his brother.
To me the fact that this even merits discussion in Erkka's opinion is another sign that he belongs on the shelf with the other ancient relics of Finnish hockey. Not that I didn't think resurrecting players like Nummelin was a sign of that, but this simply strengthens my feeling. I had been hoping Erkka had moved to this decade, but I'm not so sure anymore.

J. Jalonen sure had his problems, but I think we all know this would not have even been discussed if he was still coach. Most likely Saku wouldn't even have been on the team, much less captained it.

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11-24-2013, 03:50 PM
  #22
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
That is my point exactly. The way I see it, we would be asking Mikko to captain the team even without the C. That's the problem. If Erkka puts too much faith in guys like Teemu and Saku, this team will not be successful. They can't save this team anymore. They are background singers in this show.
You originally put it as if Saku being the captain could somehow create discord within the team. It's something I disagree with. Saku could still be a great presence in the locker room, and I believe no one, be they young or old, would have any problems getting behind him.

However, while Saku can still be exemplary leader off the ice, he can't be that on the ice. Not anymore. He's not the guy who should enter beast mode when the game is on the line and do something decisive.

Mikko, of course, is another story. He can be both. He's a presence in the locker room who very much rivals his brother, and he will also be the guy everyone will look towards when it comes the time to piggyback the squad to victory.

To sum it up, picking Saku is by no means picking a bad captain. However, it means overlooking a guy who can be even better.

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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
J. Jalonen sure had his problems, but I think we all know this would not have even been discussed if he was still coach. Most likely Saku wouldn't even have been on the team, much less captained it.
Jalonen would be a true double-edged sword. On one side, you'd have some players we do basically still need not answering the call. On the other side, you would not have to worry that he'd bring some dusty old relics onto the table and try to make 'em pass for quality silverware.

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11-24-2013, 04:02 PM
  #23
Gaps
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
You originally put it as if Saku being the captain could somehow create discord within the team. It's something I disagree with. Saku could still be a great presence in the locker room, and I believe no one, be they young or old, would have any problems getting behind him.

However, while Saku can still be exemplary leader off the ice, he can't be that on the ice. Not anymore. He's not the guy who should enter beast mode when the game is on the line and do something decisive.

Mikko, of course, is another story. He can be both. He's a presence in the locker room who very much rivals his brother, and he will also be the guy everyone will look towards when it comes the time to piggyback the squad to victory.

To sum it up, picking Saku is by no means picking a bad captain. However, it means overlooking a guy who can be even better.

Jalonen would be a true double-edged sword. On one side, you'd have some players we do basically still need not answering the call. On the other side, you would not have to worry that he'd bring some dusty old relics onto the table and try to make 'em pass for quality silverware.
The bolded is what I was trying to say. I don't think the players would have anything against Saku, but they might not be too pleased with Erkka and that would be a problem.

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11-24-2013, 04:59 PM
  #24
FiLe
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The bolded is what I was trying to say. I don't think the players would have anything against Saku, but they might not be too pleased with Erkka and that would be a problem.
Nah, I don't really see it like that. After all, Erkka is still pretty liked guy among the players. Maybe a little past his due date, but not yet completely stale.

Besides, the first guy to jump 100% behind this call would be Mikko. He'd probably be nothing but ecstatic to play in a team captained by his greatest hero. And if he appears content, the rest of the team wouldn't really have any grounds to question the management's choice either.

Sure, Erkka wouldn't still be making the best possible call, but I see no means how it would put his authority in jeopardy. It's one of those things that would be questioned from outside the team, but not inside.

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11-25-2013, 03:06 PM
  #25
Gaps
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It's one of those things that would be questioned from outside the team, but not inside.
What the public thinks is a whole another can of worms. Of course we can always ask how much they should care about it or if they should care about it at all. In this case it would probably be for the best if they did care. After all, if it has little meaning to the team but a big meaning to the people, why stir things up on purpose? The way I see it, Erkka has not been into creating unnecessary public drama or rocking the boat (in regards to the public) knowingly in the past.

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