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12-06-2011, 02:04 PM
  #301
Herman the German
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tobi rieder

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12-07-2011, 01:12 PM
  #302
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Turns out, it was resident Knightslayer Lorentz!

It was a fantastic game, and both goalies were stellar.

I don't know what to think about this team. On paper, they should be well down in the standings and just squeak into the playoffs. In real life, they're tied for 3rd in the conference with games in hand halfway through the season, and have beaten the top teams. Chemistry and hard work are clearly the difference, along with a few pleasant surprises (Gibson is the MVP as far as I'm concerned) in net and a few rookies. This "plug and play" roster just keeps on rolling.

Spott has some tough decisions ahead.

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12-07-2011, 07:23 PM
  #303
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Turns out, it was resident Knightslayer Lorentz!

It was a fantastic game, and both goalies were stellar.

I don't know what to think about this team. On paper, they should be well down in the standings and just squeak into the playoffs. In real life, they're tied for 3rd in the conference with games in hand halfway through the season, and have beaten the top teams. Chemistry and hard work are clearly the difference, along with a few pleasant surprises (Gibson is the MVP as far as I'm concerned) in net and a few rookies. This "plug and play" roster just keeps on rolling.

Spott has some tough decisions ahead.


Yes, both goalies were stellar - at times, each making unbelieveable saves.

To be honest, I don't think Spott has very many tough decisions to make right now. At least as far as whether or not we are buyers or sellers.

At this point, considering what this team has done with a depleted lineup, I believe that Spott has no other choice but to be buyers. However, I don't believe we really need to be getting into the Spooner, etc sweepstakes - especially since the price will be high.

I do believe though that at the very least, we try and pick up a couple of useful, physical forwards with size that can return next year in the '93 and/or '92 age group. These guys do not have to be high end players but character role players in the mold of Clarkson or O'Nabigon - players we picked up relatively cheap in '02-'03 season. These guys rounded out our forward group quite nicely that year.

I believe that the last thing Spott should do is stand pat. Waiting to make a run next year only to unexpectedly lose a player or to to the pros in this off season would be devastating. I'm sure that Spott still has the sour taste in his mouth upon losing Skinner and Morin unexpectedly. I know I do.

I don't really expect the Rangers to lose Murphy, but you never know. Also, keep in mind, that Gibson is a candidate to play in the AHL next year under the same rule that lost us Jeremy Morin. Since Anaheim's goaltending is so bad, and Gibson has been so good, it wouldn't surprise me if we lost him to the pros next year. Then what??

Therefore, I believe Spott should try and improve this team and try and make a run this year - especially since no one has stepped up yet and declared themselves a powerhouse favorite in the mold of the '05 Knights or the '09 & '10 Spits in either conference.

As someone said in another thread on another board, it looks like both conferences are up for grabs at this point.

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12-07-2011, 08:20 PM
  #304
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^^ the important upgrades that Spott will be making is acquiring Crescenzi, Iafrate and Marcantuoni from the injury list.
Crescenzi has started to practice and should return next week, Iafrate will be back Friday and Matia has been skating and doing drills but is probably won't be back till after Christmas.
Other than that maybe a 19 year old (or 2 of them) who should be back as an overager next year.
Not sure if I would really mess too much with the mojo or chemistry.
A lot of times sports teams sums are less than their parts. With this Ranger team the sum is greater than their parts!...

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12-07-2011, 11:08 PM
  #305
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^^ the important upgrades that Spott will be making is acquiring Crescenzi, Iafrate and Marcantuoni from the injury list.
Crescenzi has started to practice and should return next week, Iafrate will be back Friday and Matia has been skating and doing drills but is probably won't be back till after Christmas.
Other than that maybe a 19 year old (or 2 of them) who should be back as an overager next year.
Not sure if I would really mess too much with the mojo or chemistry.
A lot of times sports teams sums are less than their parts. With this Ranger team the sum is greater than their parts!...



That is why I think we should not get into sweepstakes for high end forwards. To drop a Ryan Spooner into our top two lines may affect mojo or chemistry. To do what Saginaw did acquiring John MacFarland DID affect team chemistry. We don't want that here!

A decent 19 year old or two to round out the 3rd &4th lines is all I'm asking for.

When healthy, keeping in mind that Spott said he would not break up the current Faksa line when AC and MM return, here's how we look up front right now:

Thomson / Catenacci / Rieder

Lorentz / Faksa / Ming

Francisco / Crescenzi / Marcantuoni

Pederson / Sterk / Lesway

Clampitt / Meighan / Grant


Now, someone is going down when AC and MM return. At first glance, that would be Clampitt. But I think that he has shown, in the few games he's played, that he brings something valuable to the team that nobody else in the above bottom six brings. Physical play and a willingness to drop the gloves at the right time. Hey, many guys who fight would have been undisciplined and maybe earned 2, 5, and 10 after that hit from behind but Clampitt went about his business in such a manner to not negate a Ranger PP. I have him ahead of Grant and Lesway even before the fight. I'd keep him around. Even not considering the fight, he had a great game vs London chalking up a few big hits in the process.


Here's how I'd like to see the lines look with a few adjustments and the acquisition of a veteran player to play the wing on the AC line:

Thomson / Catenacci / Rieder

Lorentz / Faksa / Ming

'92 aquisition / Crescenzi / Marcantuoni

Francisco / Sterk / Clampitt


Pederson & Meighan become the extra forwards but move in and out of the 4th line.

Lesway and Grant are moved out, sent down, whatever (they don't hold any trade value)

You may have to throw in a Sterk or a Meighan to complete the deal but certainly worth it if we're getting back a player who'll be here this year and next.



This is not too drastic a change and provided the right guy is acquired, would really solidify our top three lines. Spott has said in the past that having OHL talent sitting in the pressbox ready to come in at any time insures that the 4th line players play in such a manner as to not be a healthy scratch the next game. That can only mean a tenacious, hard to play against 4th line at all times.

This veteran player we'd acquire would be good enough to move up onto the top two lines if need be and be an OA candidate for next season.

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12-13-2011, 09:28 PM
  #306
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Well it's about a forgone conclusion we're getting Murphy back. The coaching staff this year obviously don't like him at all, seems like he's been set up to fail by them. I just hope to god Murphy forgets what they''ve been telling him because they're trying to turn him into something he's not.

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12-14-2011, 08:32 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
Well it's about a forgone conclusion we're getting Murphy back. The coaching staff this year obviously don't like him at all, seems like he's been set up to fail by them. I just hope to god Murphy forgets what they''ve been telling him because they're trying to turn him into something he's not.
I think there will be a HUGE debate over cutting Murphy and if they don't win Gold they will have even more explaining to do then! Sucks for Murph, but nice to have him back!

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12-14-2011, 08:48 AM
  #308
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I think there will be a HUGE debate over cutting Murphy and if they don't win Gold they will have even more explaining to do then! Sucks for Murph, but nice to have him back!
It's great to have him back and its great to have him away from a coach like Don Hay. Horrible influence on players. He's making it clear if you play a defense first style you're good enough to make the team, even if you suck like Scott Harrington. He's horrible, isn't even a number 1 defensemen in the OHL and yet he's going to play for Team Canada.

They screw up like this every year, take a defensive defensmen for the sake of it and the defensemen always sucks. Olsen last year for example.

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12-14-2011, 09:28 AM
  #309
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It's great to have him back and its great to have him away from a coach like Don Hay. Horrible influence on players. He's making it clear if you play a defense first style you're good enough to make the team, even if you suck like Scott Harrington. He's horrible, isn't even a number 1 defensemen in the OHL and yet he's going to play for Team Canada.

They screw up like this every year, take a defensive defensmen for the sake of it and the defensemen always sucks. Olsen last year for example.
The last 6 years they have won 4 golds and 2 silvers. Last year was a collapse by the whole team let's not act one player would have made the difference. It was one those players to get through 1 period to win gold and they didn't.

How do we know that Murphy just didn't play well enough and distinguish himself among the other D trying out? To say Hay is a horrible influence on players is laughable the guy has won numerous Memorial Cups and coached in the NHL and mentored a lot of NHL guys. He knows what he's doing.

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12-14-2011, 11:10 AM
  #310
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The last 6 years they have won 4 golds and 2 silvers. Last year was a collapse by the whole team let's not act one player would have made the difference. It was one those players to get through 1 period to win gold and they didn't.

How do we know that Murphy just didn't play well enough and distinguish himself among the other D trying out? To say Hay is a horrible influence on players is laughable the guy has won numerous Memorial Cups and coached in the NHL and mentored a lot of NHL guys. He knows what he's doing.
Yup.

I get Kitchener fans acting emotionally because its Murphy, but Hockey Canada has been the most successful program out there. Its being copied by other Countries. To suggest that the system is broken is saying something simply out of frustration, not looking at facts.

I watched the two games via video feed, and I thougt Murphy looked off. Im not sure if its the concussion or struggling with the style, but he wasnt playing with the same urgancy/flaire.

Most Countries would love to 'screw up' like Canada does.

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12-14-2011, 11:25 AM
  #311
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Yup.

I get Kitchener fans acting emotionally because its Murphy, but Hockey Canada has been the most successful program out there. Its being copied by other Countries. To suggest that the system is broken is saying something simply out of frustration, not looking at facts.

I watched the two games via video feed, and I thougt Murphy looked off. Im not sure if its the concussion or struggling with the style, but he wasnt playing with the same urgancy/flaire.

Most Countries would love to 'screw up' like Canada does.
Personally I can see people making a point and using guys like Duchene, Skinner, Nugent Hopkins as examples of guys who should have made the team just based on their supreme skill and how it's transferred quickly into the professional ranks. Murphy had a concussion earlier this year and hasn't been that good. Regardless Canada will still probably be playing for gold come January. Team USA will be a threat but that shouldn't effect Canada making a run.

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12-14-2011, 11:28 AM
  #312
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It's great to have him back and its great to have him away from a coach like Don Hay. Horrible influence on players.
This is a little much. Sometimes great players get cut because they aren't as good of a fit within a teams system as others. To suggest Don Hay is a horrible influence on players sounds like an emotional over-reaction from a fan.

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12-14-2011, 07:55 PM
  #313
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To say that Harrington sucks and is horrible is a bit much. I'd take him on my team any day of the week.

However, I've seen enough of him to conclude that if he made this team, then either Canada is very light on high end defensmen or the coaching staff just plain screwed up.

I had Murphy not making it a while ago. I predicted it in this thread earlier on. Bottom line is, if he is prone to turnovers at the OHL level, then Team Canada can ill afford to take a chance that a Murphy turnover against world class competition could lead to a goal, that could lead to a loss. A loss at the wrong time can cost you the gold.

Dougie Hamilton is bigger, better defensively, and has many more PP points than Murphy. To be honest, Spott himself has to take some of the blame hear. Murphy is the only player that I can remember during the entire DeBoer/Spott regime that was allowed and encouraged to "play his free wheeling game" period. Kadri was benched for it, for example.

That's how Murphy is programmed here in Kitchener and to expect him to do an about-face in the space of a few days is too much to ask for. "Off the glass and out" is not Murphy's game.


I'm not sold on the defense first system. Defense first last year I believe went a long way in costing us the Gold. Once the Russians poured on the gas in the third period last year, we had no answer - no explosive offensive force to counter. We needed to not only stop the Russians from scoring, we had to score as well. Instead, all we did was try and hang on til time ran out.

I also don't agree with Don Hay stating to the media that experience will go a long way in the selection process. First of all, that's a given historically. But he pretty much implied that the starters job was Visentin's job to lose. Personally, I'm worried. He hasn't been the same goalie since that game. He's been sub-par this year and to get a free pass to the starters position doesn't make sense to me.

The selection committee rewarded Tanner Pearson for his red hot play this season and that is a good thing to take a guy with a hot hand. However, they do an about face by not selecting a guy like Malcolm Subban who is, from all accounts the best Canadian goalie to date this year in the OHL. The guy is winning games left and right on his own yet doesn't get an invite to camp. Were they afraid he'd dominate at camp and force a hard decision whether to take a 17 year old goalie for a 19 year old tournament?

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12-17-2011, 01:32 AM
  #314
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Any truth to the rumour the Kitchener captain is related to Mark Spitz??
Good game...as per usual officials made the difference

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12-17-2011, 08:47 AM
  #315
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Any truth to the rumour the Kitchener captain is related to Mark Spitz??
Good game...as per usual officials made the difference
No swimmers in Catenacci's background.
Yeah, the ref's did make a difference. If not for them on Cousins embellishment into the boards and the very weak call on Iafrate the Rangers would've won in regulation!

(see....it goes both ways there Buddy!)

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12-17-2011, 04:44 PM
  #316
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No swimmers in Catenacci's background.
Yeah, the ref's did make a difference. If not for them on Cousins embellishment into the boards and the very weak call on Iafrate the Rangers would've won in regulation!

(see....it goes both ways there Buddy!)


Don't forget the non-call when Murphy was tripped coming out of the Rangers zone on the PP. It was an obvious trip. Referee Seth Ferguson watched the whole thing and obviously did not miss it, but rather chose not to call it, probably because it would have put the Soo down 2 men.

Spott was incredulous and even laughed at Ferguson for the non-call.

That embellishment by Cousins was arguably a penalty even without the embellishment, but the odd thing on the play was that you could have counted three steamboats before Ferguson put his arm up.

When you consider what must have been going through Ferguson's mind during the time Cousins was fouled and the time the arm went up, the non-call on Murphy is not only understandable, but a bit scary.

Hate see what happens when he's behind the wheel, approaching an intersection and the light turns yellow. (insert Twilight Zone theme here)

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12-17-2011, 05:12 PM
  #317
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That embellishment by Cousins was arguably a penalty even without the embellishment, but the odd thing on the play was that you could have counted three steamboats before Ferguson put his arm up.

When you consider what must have been going through Ferguson's mind during the time Cousins was fouled and the time the arm went up, the non-call on Murphy is not only understandable, but a bit scary.
I didn't see the play, so can't speak on specifics, but in my viewings of Cousins this year, most refs will take that long to make decisions on his fouls. He actually looses alot of calls due to the diving.

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12-18-2011, 11:14 AM
  #318
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There were horrible calls and non-calls all over the place on Friday night, on both sides. Along with a few makeup calls that made the stripes look even worse.

It was a great game to watch, but as a Kitchener fan, I don't want to see the Soo in a playoff series. Kitchener would not fare well.

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12-19-2011, 10:45 PM
  #319
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Hey, Canes fan here with a question about Murphy...

I will say before anything that I've only seen Murphy play once for the Rangers, once for the Canes in the preseason, and a whole lot of highlights. Everything else I've based my opinion of him around are stats, HF talk, etc. So, if I'm just ENTIRELY off base on some of this, I apologize

A debate about Jamie McBain on the Canes board got me thinking about Murphy's potential, and as I was thinking, it became obvious to me that I'm NOT sold on him becoming a great NHL player. That doesn't mean I don't THINK he will be, but a lot of Canes fans are counting their chickens before they hatch, and Murphy, while possessing the potential to be one of the best defenseman in the NHL, also has the bust potential to never be effective on an NHL roster. Let's face it, no matter how much he improves in his own zone, he'll never be more than below average defensively, so in order to make an impact he's going to have to put up points, a lot of them. It has yet to be seen if his game-breaking offensive skill can overcome his defensive struggles, but until then I'm not "sold."

Anyway, let me get to my actual question. I realize position changes rarely happen, and I'm not saying do it right NOW or anything, but IF Murphy proves to be everything his critics say he is, too small, too much of a liability in his own end, would Murphy be the type of player that could adjust to the wing? I know this question could offend some of you Murphy fans, or make some others think I'm an idiot, as it'd be highly unlikely. But I'm asking this as a hypothetical with a LOT of parameters. He'd have to NOT sort of flop out, NOT have his concussions come back to bite him, it'd just be the kind of thing where it becomes apparent that his defensive game would not translate. Is Murphy the type of player that could make this sort of difficult switch? Would his offensive skills translate well to the wing if all else fails? Will I EVER end this post?

Thanks in advance.

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12-19-2011, 10:56 PM
  #320
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Anyway, let me get to my actual question. I realize position changes rarely happen, and I'm not saying do it right NOW or anything, but IF Murphy proves to be everything his critics say he is, too small, too much of a liability in his own end, would Murphy be the type of player that could adjust to the wing? I know this question could offend some of you Murphy fans, or make some others think I'm an idiot, as it'd be highly unlikely. But I'm asking this as a hypothetical with a LOT of parameters. He'd have to NOT sort of flop out, NOT have his concussions come back to bite him, it'd just be the kind of thing where it becomes apparent that his defensive game would not translate. Is Murphy the type of player that could make this sort of difficult switch? Would his offensive skills translate well to the wing if all else fails? Will I EVER end this post?

Thanks in advance.
Always happy to see new posters on the OHL threads. Please keep in mind the post is in respect to your question. But here goes..

Ill never understand that thought proccess.

You nutralize everything that makes him Ryan Murphy by putting him on the wing. Instead of being a smart defenceman who can generate offense off of the rush, he becomes a small winger who looses battles along the boards and in front of the net.

His entire game is based on his ability to control a game from his own end. His stretch passes, his ability to generate speed out of his end and distribute the puck at high speeds.

Ill counter your question with a question.

Who was the last 1st round pick to switch positions? Fair to say it doesnt happen for a reason.

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12-19-2011, 11:09 PM
  #321
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Always happy to see new posters on the OHL threads. Please keep in mind the post is in respect to your question. But here goes..

Ill never understand that thought proccess.

You nutralize everything that makes him Ryan Murphy by putting him on the wing. Instead of being a smart defenceman who can generate offense off of the rush, he becomes a small winger who looses battles along the boards and in front of the net.

His entire game is based on his ability to control a game from his own end. His stretch passes, his ability to generate speed out of his end and distribute the puck at high speeds.

Ill counter your question with a question.

Who was the last 1st round pick to switch positions? Fair to say it doesnt happen for a reason.
The thought process is, if it's a choice between switching to wing or being out of the league because his game doesn't translate, WOULD he be able to do it?

But yeah, in the second bolded part I definitely have found what I was looking for, thank you. Despite his talents, I thought it'd be difficult for him to switch simply because when he has the puck he needs the game in front of him in order to be successful, he wouldn't be able to fight in the zone for pucks, win board battles on the forecheck, etc.

And, in response to your counter question, I'm not sure. But I do know that Murphy is one of the most talented players to enter the draft in quite some time, and if it becomes clear that he can't play defense, I was simply thinking that his talent could lead him to become one of the few that can switch. It'd be a shame to waste his talent if he ends up not being able to cut it in his own zone. It certainly has happened, Scott Walker comes to mind, he was drafted (granted, in the 5th round) as an offensive defenseman and ended up putting together a VERY respectable career, scoring 25 goals twice and 20 once. And, having seen him play a decent portion of his career, I can say that he has absolutely nowhere near the offensive talent that Murphy's got.

But, I'm glad to get an answer, not trying to fight you just trying to sort out all the different things floating around in my head . Thanks!

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12-20-2011, 05:54 AM
  #322
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Always happy to see new posters on the OHL threads. Please keep in mind the post is in respect to your question. But here goes..

Ill never understand that thought proccess.

You nutralize everything that makes him Ryan Murphy by putting him on the wing. Instead of being a smart defenceman who can generate offense off of the rush, he becomes a small winger who looses battles along the boards and in front of the net.

His entire game is based on his ability to control a game from his own end. His stretch passes, his ability to generate speed out of his end and distribute the puck at high speeds.

Ill counter your question with a question.

Who was the last 1st round pick to switch positions? Fair to say it doesnt happen for a reason.
My answer would be Wendal Clark drafted by the leafs as a D-man

became a pretty good winger
t
The reason they converted him is because on a 5 on one he would still take

the man lol

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12-21-2011, 09:27 AM
  #323
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This is a little much. Sometimes great players get cut because they aren't as good of a fit within a teams system as others. To suggest Don Hay is a horrible influence on players sounds like an emotional over-reaction from a fan.
I've thought negatively towards Hay ever since they picked him. It's not because Murphy got cut, and if he would have made the team I would have thought the same way.

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The last 6 years they have won 4 golds and 2 silvers. Last year was a collapse by the whole team let's not act one player would have made the difference. It was one those players to get through 1 period to win gold and they didn't.

How do we know that Murphy just didn't play well enough and distinguish himself among the other D trying out? To say Hay is a horrible influence on players is laughable the guy has won numerous Memorial Cups and coached in the NHL and mentored a lot of NHL guys. He knows what he's doing.
I don't care what he's done. Don Hay has been blessed with amazing teams. I think he is a bad influence on players, especially like Murphy. He tries to change the way people play, when he doesn't know anything about them, and won't be with them very long. That is not a good thing, it's selfish, and it doesn't work.

And you bring up he's coached in the NHL, well it wasn't for very long, and he was pretty bad at it. His style did not work at all and he returned to junior because of it.

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12-21-2011, 09:35 AM
  #324
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I've thought negatively towards Hay ever since they picked him. It's not because Murphy got cut, and if he would have made the team I would have thought the same way.



I don't care what he's done. Don Hay has been blessed with amazing teams. I think he is a bad influence on players, especially like Murphy. He tries to change the way people play, when he doesn't know anything about them, and won't be with them very long. That is not a good thing, it's selfish, and it doesn't work.

And you bring up he's coached in the NHL, well it wasn't for very long, and he was pretty bad at it. His style did not work at all and he returned to junior because of it.
IMHO being a successful coach requires having a system that you and a player to play then knowing how to get them to want to play into that system.

BUT....

I coach also has to see the talents a player has then place him into that system or adapt the system somewhat to a special talent.
The onus is also on the player to adapt to the coach and his system.

Even though I'm a huge Murphy fan I have no beef with Hay cutting
Murphy this year. Murph is having a gawd awful year. If he was playing like he did last year then I would be furious.

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12-21-2011, 09:47 AM
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RayzorIsDull
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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
I've thought negatively towards Hay ever since they picked him. It's not because Murphy got cut, and if he would have made the team I would have thought the same way.



I don't care what he's done. Don Hay has been blessed with amazing teams. I think he is a bad influence on players, especially like Murphy. He tries to change the way people play, when he doesn't know anything about them, and won't be with them very long. That is not a good thing, it's selfish, and it doesn't work.

And you bring up he's coached in the NHL, well it wasn't for very long, and he was pretty bad at it. His style did not work at all and he returned to junior because of it.
So you never liked Don Hay and you're blaming Don Hay because Ryan Murphy didn't make the team and because in your convoluted logic Hay is trying to ruin him. I find it interesting you don't put any of the onus on Murphy himself who hasn't played well. Hay was with Murphy for a few days and you come to this conclusion? Don Hay has had good teams but the guy paid his dues. Before coaching those Blazer teams during their dynasty he served 6 years as an assistant coach with the Blazers. He helped develop those players into those great teams.

Yes he didn't last long in the NHL but as the saying goes you get hired to be fired. He went back to juniors and has had a great run with Vancouver. How can you blame Don Hay for Ryan Murphy when Hay has a track record that is pretty much one of the best you will find in junior hockey. Why aren't you saying these same things about Steve Spott who obviously isn't getting the most out of Ryan Murphy? Fact is Murphy hasn't played well at all this year, the onus is on himself and nobody else. It's not Spott's fault, Hay's fault it starts and ends with Murphy.

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