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Next great Swedish defenseman?

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Old
08-20-2011, 10:33 PM
  #126
Hyack57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tututooter21 View Post
Alex Edler
Two things. This thread apparently is NCA (No Canucks Allowed) and Edler is 25 years old. By HF standards he is retirement ready and has no bearing on the future of the NHL.

And I get the feeling a lot of people like to come on here and spout off 'dark horse' names just to not be in the consensus.

Honestly.

Larsson
Edler
OEL
Hedman
Karlsson

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Old
08-20-2011, 10:42 PM
  #127
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No way to really tell now. We'll have to see in the future. My choice would probably be OEL or Karlsson.

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Old
08-20-2011, 11:09 PM
  #128
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people need to remember that most dmen dont hit their strides until their mid-late 20s, its definately hard to judge and a lot of the expectations on them are unfair at this point

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08-20-2011, 11:14 PM
  #129
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I'm going to post here again for clarification.

Ekholm. Ekholm. Ekholm.

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Old
08-20-2011, 11:45 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by His Beardliness View Post
I'm going to post here again for clarification.

Ekholm. Ekholm. Ekholm.
And I'm going to repeat myself again from 4 posts previous...
"And I get the feeling a lot of people like to come on here and spout off 'dark horse' names just to not be in the consensus. "

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Old
08-21-2011, 01:05 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyack57 View Post
And I'm going to repeat myself again from 4 posts previous...
"And I get the feeling a lot of people like to come on here and spout off 'dark horse' names just to not be in the consensus. "
Mr Rookie of the year cannot be considered much as a dark horse anymore. All around brilliant defenseman.

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Old
08-21-2011, 09:08 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyack57 View Post
And I'm going to repeat myself again from 4 posts previous...
"And I get the feeling a lot of people like to come on here and spout off 'dark horse' names just to not be in the consensus. "
Ekholm has pretty high status in Sweden after a good SEL-season and good play for the NT. For us that seen him play last season he seems like another name to add to the mix. He is still a darkhorse in NA though.

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Old
08-21-2011, 09:15 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
And who would that be?
Enstrom, duh! lol He's the best Swedish defenseman after Lidstrom, yet no one mentions him. But this is the the prospects board, so mentioning Enstrom, Edler, or whoever has already played in the NHL is silly. I personally am not sure whether any of these prospects can even reach the level Enstrom is already at. That's pretty damn good.

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08-21-2011, 09:24 AM
  #134
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I was thinking Enstrom as a possibility too, but he is small.

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08-21-2011, 10:13 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
Enstrom, duh! lol He's the best Swedish defenseman after Lidstrom, yet no one mentions him. But this is the the prospects board, so mentioning Enstrom, Edler, or whoever has already played in the NHL is silly. I personally am not sure whether any of these prospects can even reach the level Enstrom is already at. That's pretty damn good.
Ofc you cant be sure, but when you compare the youngsters skill level with Enström's at the same age, its not impossible

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08-21-2011, 02:05 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
Enstrom, duh! lol He's the best Swedish defenseman after Lidstrom, yet no one mentions him. But this is the the prospects board, so mentioning Enstrom, Edler, or whoever has already played in the NHL is silly. I personally am not sure whether any of these prospects can even reach the level Enstrom is already at. That's pretty damn good.
Well, Enström is the best Swedish defenseman in the league, I agree. Just don't agree with your comparison to Lidström.

And to use the comparisons to Lidström, Edler or Enström by saying that some other defenseman is further ahead in their draft years is pretty useless. Obviously they are, these guys were not top prospects at 17 or 18. They're top defenseman in the NHL now, though.

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Old
08-21-2011, 02:15 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAS 39 Gripen View Post
Ofc you cant be sure, but when you compare the youngsters skill level with Enström's at the same age, its not impossible
We still don't know just how good enstrom is going to be over his career either. These guys are all just clearly better at the same age, I expect at least a couple to reach the upper class of dmen.

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08-21-2011, 03:38 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
We still don't know just how good enstrom is going to be over his career either. These guys are all just clearly better at the same age, I expect at least a couple to reach the upper class of dmen.
No, but what we do know is how good they were at the same age, which I just said above..

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08-21-2011, 03:50 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by JAS 39 Gripen View Post
No, but what we do know is how good they were at the same age, which I just said above..
It's not a fair comparison. Enström was drafted in the 200s. If any of the 1st rounders had as rapid a development as Enström had, they'd be the best D in the league.

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Old
08-21-2011, 03:50 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by JAS 39 Gripen View Post
No, but what we do know is how good they were at the same age, which I just said above..
It was like an agreement, yo.

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Old
08-22-2011, 09:21 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Larsson
Hedman
OEL
Karlsson
Rundblad
Erixon
Good list, I would go with this. Karlsson the best offensively, but overall game puts him 4th on my list.

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Old
08-22-2011, 10:55 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
It's not a fair comparison. Enström was drafted in the 200s. If any of the 1st rounders had as rapid a development as Enström had, they'd be the best D in the league.
But they could go through half the development he did and still become elite dmen. Most of these guys have one or multiple very elite qualities. I've always known swedes to not waste much of the talent they have.

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Old
08-23-2011, 07:43 AM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
I've always known swedes to not waste much of the talent they have.
well, Dick Axelsson instantly came to my mind, but i guess the fact this thread is about defensemen saves your point

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08-23-2011, 07:55 AM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruinsfan46 View Post
OEL
Hedman
Karlsson
Larsson
Rundblad
Brodin
Erixon
Klefbom

Just my terribly uninformed opinion, they're all pretty good.
this would be my list too

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Old
08-23-2011, 09:26 AM
  #145
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It's good to see at least the Swedes in the thread recognizing Mattias Ekholm. It's hard to ignore a 6'3, physical defenseman with skill. Hockey Prospectus rates him higher than Ryan Ellis, and Paul Fenton(Preds AGM) said that he feels last year's SEL rookie of the year has "Suter\Weber upside"

If this guy were a TML or Vancouver prospect, he'd be shoved in everyone's faces. Look for him to make his NHL debut this season.

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Old
08-24-2011, 06:48 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
Hedman is seriously the most over hyped player in this board, seriously people do you watch any Tampa games at all? This guy is ****ing lackluster and soft as butter for a dman he reminds of a young Philip Kuba with somewhat of a brain.

If this guy was selected 24th overall and based on his NHL play so far, he won't even be even considered at all.


Have you watched hockey for for more than a year?

Hedman is yet -- as of today -- to turn 21 y/o (he will be 21 in December).

His is 6'6.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=107121

He has already played 150 games in the NHL scoring at a very solid 0.4 PPG pace, and is playing for a team thats a lock to be a strong team in the NHL for years to come.

He is going to become a very good D -- no doubt.

He will be able to pack alot of muscle on his body. His shot is already good, but will without any single doubt become elite as he grows older. Not far from Chara's. He moves the puck well and while he certainly can improve in the NHL, his passing game is good and he already has more puckmoving tools in his box than guys like Phaneuf, Bouwmeester and co.

As for being soft? Give me a break. You see his passport and you have not seen him lay out all that many big hits and you call him soft. Hitting is maybe not all, but to atleast 90%, about lateral movement in the NHL today and playing defense is almost all about gap-controll. Position yourself so far from your guy that he can't go around you, but still so close that you can disturb him/cover his shot when he trys to fire the puck. Give up a low %-play instead of risk getting beat or taking a penalty. Look at the young ranger D; Staal, Sauer, Girardi and McD, you won't see many big hits and none is called soft. Hedman is -- overall -- very strong infront of the net and in his own end. Sure he screws up at times (yeah the kid you have seen is a 19/20 y/o kid who doesn't play a perfect game already) for sure, but he is probably alot more physical than the 6-7 names mentioned in this thread, thats for sure.

Trashing Hedman is such a classic HF-blunder move. Yiiiii I've not seen this kid make any highlight plays he is someone I can claim that he sucks.

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Old
08-24-2011, 07:19 AM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruinsfan46 View Post
OEL
Hedman
Karlsson
Larsson
Rundblad
Brodin
Erixon
Klefbom

Just my terribly uninformed opinion, they're all pretty good.
My take, in order, as of now:

Victor Hedman
No need to go in on specifics since we all have seen alot of him.

But very very very strong overall. If you ever have played the game you know what a biatch it is to go up against a D 6'6. Size, reach, strength etc. definitely still matters defensively.

Offensively he has a raw passing game but still uses alot of tools that you don't see from all that many of the D's in this league. He aint the next Lidström, but with experience he will become very solid with the puck.

His shot will definitely be a factor. Its very good already and will undoubtedly improve. Hence he will be a good PP player.

And he plays for Tampa Bay. Don't underrate that. Good teams give their young D's a opertunity to develop all areas of the game and its so important for these kids to be allowed to play a creative offensive game early in their career. Good teams develop good D's, thats just how it is.

Erik Karlsson
This kid's offensive game, his poise, and pure offensive guts has always been remarkable.

Ottawa has done a great job with him and he will, god forbid he runs into any injury problems or what not, become a main stay in the top 10 in scoring for D's probably for the coming 10+ years.

Adam Larsson
I see him as a future very solid top 2 D.

He has some explosiveness in his game. Decent size. Good shot. Poised with the puck.

He can just do it all and has no real flaws. Plus, just like with Hedman, and of course unless they go down in flames, playing for NJD is of course a very good environment for him. They will make him very good defensively. And, NJD has, as opposed to many other defensiveminded teams, never handcuffed their D's with the puck. Not even remotely. Every time you see them you can't help to be suprised by just how much they demand from guys like Colin White and co when it comes to making the first pass etc. They pass their way from their own end up ice. Like NJD's blueline is often more creative with the puck than say teams like Carolinas blueline and co, who wants more of a faster -- pucks up the boards -- type of transition game.

David Rundblad
Rundblad is not a hit or miss-type of prospect, but more of a hit or become someone who might struggle for some time-type of prospect, if you get what I mean.

Look, he is very poised with the puck. He is excellent on the PP-blueline. He has a good hip-check.

His skating is not a problem but also not a strength. Like he can stay with his man defensively, and he can get around his man offensively, but his stride could be prettier and in the odd situation his skating can get him in trouble.

He is one of those kids who got alot of tools and who already (!) has put it all together. But the NHL is a tough league to get established in. What you question yourself is things like (i) how well will he be able to establish his game in the NHL and (ii) could the transition period take a toll on him?

OEL
I don't rank him low, I just rank other higher.

Good pick in the draft for PHX. Good player. Skilled.

But unlike Rundblad I don't think he has put his game together yet. I am not in love with his decision making as of yet at least.

I defintiely think he moved to the NHL too early. He needs to figure alot of things out before he becomes a good top 20 D, and while nobody becomes that instantly in the NHL at his age, its at the same time not all that easy invent your game once you become a pro...

Tim Erixon
Very good hockey player already. But you always have some questionmarks, and neither his offensive nor defensive game will stand out alot in the NHL.

Overall Comment
Looking at prospects I think its very easy to forget what -- exactly -- playing D in the NHL is all about. Like, we all know what it is not about, and thats raw talent.

Its about getting it done night after night, year after year. D's like Letang and Enström for example are so valuble in the game today, and what they have that others don't have a ton to do with most of the things we talk about in these threads.

Some guys just have the poise and mental strength to -- make it look easy in the NHL.

These guys are all so talented that nothing is like preventing a player like Erixon to become the best D of the bunch, and even from becoming like a top 5 D in the entire league. Erixon is a good example of a D with who from time to time shows that poise.

I could not predict, when seing them in Sweden, that Tobias Enström would be a mega hit in the NHL and that Anton Strålman would struggle. I liked both, but Enström certainly suprised me in a postive way and Strålman in a negative way. Comparing them at the same age, I would have had Hedman, Larsson, Karlsson and Rundblad ahead of Enström and Strålman, and OEL and Erixon after them.

It will be interesting to follow them in the future.

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Old
08-24-2011, 02:36 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
My take, in order, as of now:

Victor Hedman
No need to go in on specifics since we all have seen alot of him.

But very very very strong overall. If you ever have played the game you know what a biatch it is to go up against a D 6'6. Size, reach, strength etc. definitely still matters defensively.

Offensively he has a raw passing game but still uses alot of tools that you don't see from all that many of the D's in this league. He aint the next Lidström, but with experience he will become very solid with the puck.

His shot will definitely be a factor. Its very good already and will undoubtedly improve. Hence he will be a good PP player.

And he plays for Tampa Bay. Don't underrate that. Good teams give their young D's a opertunity to develop all areas of the game and its so important for these kids to be allowed to play a creative offensive game early in their career. Good teams develop good D's, thats just how it is.

Erik Karlsson
This kid's offensive game, his poise, and pure offensive guts has always been remarkable.

Ottawa has done a great job with him and he will, god forbid he runs into any injury problems or what not, become a main stay in the top 10 in scoring for D's probably for the coming 10+ years.

Adam Larsson
I see him as a future very solid top 2 D.

He has some explosiveness in his game. Decent size. Good shot. Poised with the puck.

He can just do it all and has no real flaws. Plus, just like with Hedman, and of course unless they go down in flames, playing for NJD is of course a very good environment for him. They will make him very good defensively. And, NJD has, as opposed to many other defensiveminded teams, never handcuffed their D's with the puck. Not even remotely. Every time you see them you can't help to be suprised by just how much they demand from guys like Colin White and co when it comes to making the first pass etc. They pass their way from their own end up ice. Like NJD's blueline is often more creative with the puck than say teams like Carolinas blueline and co, who wants more of a faster -- pucks up the boards -- type of transition game.

David Rundblad
Rundblad is not a hit or miss-type of prospect, but more of a hit or become someone who might struggle for some time-type of prospect, if you get what I mean.

Look, he is very poised with the puck. He is excellent on the PP-blueline. He has a good hip-check.

His skating is not a problem but also not a strength. Like he can stay with his man defensively, and he can get around his man offensively, but his stride could be prettier and in the odd situation his skating can get him in trouble.

He is one of those kids who got alot of tools and who already (!) has put it all together. But the NHL is a tough league to get established in. What you question yourself is things like (i) how well will he be able to establish his game in the NHL and (ii) could the transition period take a toll on him?

OEL
I don't rank him low, I just rank other higher.

Good pick in the draft for PHX. Good player. Skilled.

But unlike Rundblad I don't think he has put his game together yet. I am not in love with his decision making as of yet at least.

I defintiely think he moved to the NHL too early. He needs to figure alot of things out before he becomes a good top 20 D, and while nobody becomes that instantly in the NHL at his age, its at the same time not all that easy invent your game once you become a pro...

Tim Erixon
Very good hockey player already. But you always have some questionmarks, and neither his offensive nor defensive game will stand out alot in the NHL.

Overall Comment
Looking at prospects I think its very easy to forget what -- exactly -- playing D in the NHL is all about. Like, we all know what it is not about, and thats raw talent.

Its about getting it done night after night, year after year. D's like Letang and Enström for example are so valuble in the game today, and what they have that others don't have a ton to do with most of the things we talk about in these threads.

Some guys just have the poise and mental strength to -- make it look easy in the NHL.

These guys are all so talented that nothing is like preventing a player like Erixon to become the best D of the bunch, and even from becoming like a top 5 D in the entire league. Erixon is a good example of a D with who from time to time shows that poise.

I could not predict, when seing them in Sweden, that Tobias Enström would be a mega hit in the NHL and that Anton Strålman would struggle. I liked both, but Enström certainly suprised me in a postive way and Strålman in a negative way. Comparing them at the same age, I would have had Hedman, Larsson, Karlsson and Rundblad ahead of Enström and Strålman, and OEL and Erixon after them.

It will be interesting to follow them in the future.
excellent post, Thanks for the great read!

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Old
08-24-2011, 04:51 PM
  #149
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Great post, Ola! As of now, I'd only switch around Hedman and Erik. I don't agree with the Hedman projection, though. I don't think he's gonna develop a Chara-like slapshot all of a sudden, and I don't think he'll be as good of a puck-mover as you think he will. Out of those you mentioned, he's probably the worst at moving the puck with passes, but behind Erik he's the best at skating it out.

There's just not enough skill or hockey IQ there to be a legitimate top-pairing defenseman (I know he might have played a lot for the Bolts).

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08-24-2011, 05:00 PM
  #150
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Still waiting for Hedman to live up to the hype. I'm not trying to flame the kid, but eventually he's gonna have to take the next step and become more than just a good defenceman.

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