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Chris Pronger Trade Scenario

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Old
08-10-2004, 08:12 PM
  #26
Mizral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuzzi21
To Florida
Pronger
Keenan loves this guy, he would be great with J-Bo.

to the Blues
Weiss
Krajicek
Horton
1st round pick
As good as those young players are, and as expensive as Pronger is, I still say the Blues get jipped.

The Blues ought to be looking for players who can help now, not later.

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Old
08-10-2004, 10:11 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
As good as those young players are, and as expensive as Pronger is, I still say the Blues get jipped.

The Blues ought to be looking for players who can help now, not later.
I disagree. That package could turn into

$10m: Pronger

OR

$10m: Schneider, Nylander (equivalent), Weiss, Krajicek, Horton 1st round pick

Given Pronger could walk in 2 years or so leaving nothing that is a huge risk.

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Old
08-10-2004, 10:38 PM
  #28
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Man, as a Ranger fan, I'd love to see Pronger come to Broadway.... for once the 'over-the-hill-super-star' would still have at least a little tread left on the tire, and he'd actually represent the exact sort of player the Rangers have desperately needed for years. (A big, crease-clearing, veteran defenseman).

The downside is, as many have mentioned, Prongers salary, pending UFA status, and I'd add in a very shaky injury history over the last few years.

To be honest, I just don't see any team ponying up an offer that would make Blues fans happy. It's a lot like the Rangers trading Leetch... with his age and salary, no one was going to offer the actual talent value of the former Norris and Conn Smyth winner. So any offer, even what turned out to be a pretty fair one, was/is dismissed by the partisan fan base.

All those qualifiers aside, I'd have to say that if I were Glen Sather and I was bidding on Chris Pronger, I would be doing some VERY serious low-ball work. If it's not essentially a salary dump, then I'm not interested, even though Pronger is a fantastic player at a position of need.

I'd likely offer something like:

To St.Louis:
Darius Kasparitius (to even out some of the cash)
NYR 2nd Round Pick in 2005 (should be a good one), NYR 3rd Round Pick 2005
two B-level prospects... none of the Rangers high-end kids, including but not limited to Tjutin, Jessiman, Montoya, Blackburn, Lundqvist, Lundmark, and Korpikowski.

To New York:
Pronger

It should be noted that I'm basing this trade on what actually went down for Leetch. (a late 1st, a 2nd, and two b-level prospects).

In my mind, Leetch and Pronger were at about the same level of trading value. Leetch was/is older, and both have some recent injury problems. But Leetch's contract was about half of what Pronger's is, and over the life of their deals (a year or so) they'd be of about the same value. i.e., Pronger's age difference isn't going to come into play in the first year. So Pronger's salary REALLY hurts. So I'd push Kaspar on the Blues to bring down the salary impact.

Bearing in mind that 2005 is supposedly a stronger draft year than 2004, and that the Rangers will be drafting high again, I basically take the 2005 2nd and 3rds as equal value to the Rangers getting TOR's picks... actually they might even be a little better since they both come in the same year, while NYR has to wait a season to exersize the 2nd rounder they got from TOR.

Anyways, I'm sure the Blues fans are gonna scream... but hey, just one man's opinion....

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Old
08-10-2004, 10:44 PM
  #29
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caps get
pronger
second round pick 05
blues get
kolzig
Fleischmann
eminger
suthersby

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Old
08-10-2004, 10:47 PM
  #30
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In one aspect I would have to agree with what a couple of you have stated. I would not mind trading Prongs away for all the above.(Florida offer). And with that #1 draft pick, the Blues could really set themselves up for the future. With all the youth, coming in the trade also.

But, the one thing that all Blues fans keep on hanging on to, and I do the same, is wonder if he can regain the Norris/Hart form and become the arguably most dominating player on the ice in today's NHL. If he does, is all what Florida gives up going to help up accomodate the loss of Prongs?

This is a good dilemia?

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08-10-2004, 10:48 PM
  #31
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If you're basing your offer off of what Leetch got, then you better offer a lot better than what Leetch got simply because Pronger is only 29 years old... and there is no pending UFA status with him so I don't know why people keep saying that.

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08-10-2004, 10:49 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaraholic
Let's say the Blues decided to move Pronger... Pleau and co. looked at their roster, prospect list, etc. and decided that they needed and could reasonably expect in return the following:

One young (under 24) top 6 forward, ideally a center. One top 3 defensive prospect (23 or under) and a first or second round draft pick.

Would you consider this a reasonable request in exchange for Pronger? If so what combination would your team offer?

thx
If I was a GM of an NHL team, I'd give 10 million reasons why I wouldn't even take a look at acquiring Pronger.

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Old
08-10-2004, 10:53 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1
Guy plays 30 minutes, is one of the best one on one Dmen in the league, plays w/ an edge, and can shut down other teams top lines. He can carry the D by eating up the minutes. He has been at it for a while but is still very young, he is on the right side of 30.
He might be good, but at $10m he isn't cheap.


Quote:
The addition of Pronger to any team in the league w/ the exception of Detroit and maybe the Sens. will make them into a legit. playoff team. If a team like Florida were to add Pronger, they would challenge TB for the division.
I don't think so. Sure adding a Pronger would help but it won't ensure a playoff spot. Florida wouldn't be challenging Tampa, they would still be trying get to the playoffs 1st and foremost.

$10m will get you 3 good defensemen as UFAs and not cost a prospect. A young team like Florida would be better trying to fill multiple gaps with good players rather than 1 gap with one great player. For $10m they could probably get Schneider and Demitra, and combined they would get a team closer to the playoffs than Pronger alone

Quote:
A team like Phili or Toronto adds him, well they would be early pick for winning the Cup.
The same way the Blues were the early pick for winning the cup this year because they had Pronger? Even the Kariya/Selanne and the Avs, Jagr in Washington, etc proves there are no sure things.
Again, for $10m TO could target Schneider and Demitra, keep their prospects, or Palffy and Allison, or ......

Quote:
Teams and GMs will make room for him, unless you are someone like the Oilers or Calgary - Capital conserns. Small Market, like Florida would increase the fan base quickly and hold on to it.
For how long? Until he leaves in 2 years as a UFA? Would it increase the base more than better balanced signings? Getting to playoffs would help Florida more than anything. Demitra and two decent Dmen UFAs would do that and cost no prospects.

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Old
08-10-2004, 10:53 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuzzi21
To Florida
Pronger
Keenan loves this guy, he would be great with J-Bo.

to the Blues
Weiss
Krajicek
Horton
1st round pick
Well, I highly doubt we'd trade Horton, he fits the exact model of a Keenan-type player. And I wouldn't want to trade him either. I also don't see Florida taking on anyone with a $10 million dollar contract. It'd be Bure all over again, that set us back so far.

If I could, the trade i'd do is...

to Florida
Chris Pronger

to St. Louis
1st round pick
Krajicek
Weiss
Olesz
Huselius

And for the Weiss naysayers, keep in mind after he got back from his time in the AHL last year he was averaging a point a game for a good period of time. His points
will definatelly be going up.

And I don't think there is any trade for Chris Pronger with Florida that'd really work.

If he was here i'd see a Pronger / Van Ryn as the 1st line & Bouwmeester / Hill as the 2nd.

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Old
08-10-2004, 10:58 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubera55

I'd likely offer something like:

To St.Louis:
Darius Kasparitius (to even out some of the cash)
NYR 2nd Round Pick in 2005 (should be a good one), NYR 3rd Round Pick 2005
two B-level prospects... none of the Rangers high-end kids, including but not limited to Tjutin, Jessiman, Montoya, Blackburn, Lundqvist, Lundmark, and Korpikowski.

To New York:
Pronger
Kasparitius alone would kill that deal. Why dump Pronger for cheap if you have to take on Kasparitius 's salary. As soon as Kasparitius is included NYR are going to have up the offer. A 2nd & 3rd pick and couple of AHL level prospects, why would they do it?

They might as well eat $5m of his salary and ask for the world (and come close to getting it).

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Old
08-10-2004, 11:01 PM
  #36
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I don't see St. Louis trading Pronger yet... and there's no way any team would offer them a deal that would satisfy them. Like many players, Pronger is worth more to the Blues than anything they would realistically get in return for him right now. If they were to trade Pronger, I could see it being done at the deadline, because there probably would be a few teams willing to pay an arm and a leg to acquire a guy like him for a playoff run. But that's only if the Blues aren't going to make the playoffs, and it's been a looooong time since that's happened.

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Old
08-10-2004, 11:14 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SedinFan
If I was a GM of an NHL team, I'd give 10 million reasons why I wouldn't even take a look at acquiring Pronger.

Good point. If Pronger was a UFA today and his asking price was $10m, how many teams would queue up for his services? I'd guess justt 5 or 6 and definitely less than 10.

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Old
08-10-2004, 11:14 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisher
I don't see St. Louis trading Pronger yet... and there's no way any team would offer them a deal that would satisfy them. Like many players, Pronger is worth more to the Blues than anything they would realistically get in return for him right now. If they were to trade Pronger, I could see it being done at the deadline, because there probably would be a few teams willing to pay an arm and a leg to acquire a guy like him for a playoff run. But that's only if the Blues aren't going to make the playoffs, and it's been a looooong time since that's happened.
Agreed.

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Old
08-10-2004, 11:16 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me2
Good point. If Pronger was a UFA today and his asking price was $10m, how many teams would queue up for his services? I'd guess justt 5 or 6 and definitely less than 10.
5 or 6 teams would make for a fine bidding war, driving up his trade value.

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Old
08-10-2004, 11:59 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me2
Kasparitius alone would kill that deal. Why dump Pronger for cheap if you have to take on Kasparitius 's salary. As soon as Kasparitius is included NYR are going to have up the offer. A 2nd & 3rd pick and couple of AHL level prospects, why would they do it?

They might as well eat $5m of his salary and ask for the world (and come close to getting it).
Well, I prefaced my offer by saying I would only really consider it as a salary dump. And $5 million + is hardly chump change, especially to a team with big commitments to Weight, KT, et al and a core of players that has proven consistently insufficient to win the Cup.

If the Blues are willing to trade Pronger, they'll do so because they are going to enter a rebuilding phase because A) They feel their current team isn't good enough; and B) They have to adjust their payroll to fit into the new 'cost-certain' NHL.

In that situation, the Blues would be looking at a very similar dilemma the Rangers just faced (and the Caps faced with Gonchar). Take a clearly difficient 'talent' package but a big cost savings? Or hold onto the player? Both NYR and Washington, hardly cash poor teams, moved the players and saved $5-6 million a year in payroll and got back some decent prospects in the exchange. I fail to see why the Blues, faced with a similar scenario, would be able to do any better for Pronger.

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Old
08-11-2004, 04:25 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
Not a chance.
Why? As a Blues fan, I would think you'd be all over that.

Hemmingway and the first balance out the age and contract difference.

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08-11-2004, 07:29 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
Why? As a Blues fan, I would think you'd be all over that.

Hemmingway and the first balance out the age and contract difference.
I wouldn't trade Pronger straight up for Thornton, let alone Pronger plus Hemingway and a 1st.

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08-11-2004, 09:10 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
I wouldn't trade Pronger straight up for Thornton, let alone Pronger plus Hemingway and a 1st.
Fair enough. I don't quite understand why...but fair enough.

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Old
08-11-2004, 09:23 AM
  #44
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...because I'd rather have one of the two best defensemen in the game who plans on signing a long term deal for less money [than his current $10M] per year than a 25 year old center that despite how great he is, is as overpaid as Pronger.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Thornton but Pronger is much more valuable to this team than Thornton would be and once Pronger signs his extension, the difference in salary will be less.

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Old
08-11-2004, 09:40 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
who plans on signing a long term deal for less money [than his current $10M] per year
That's the part I don't necessarily agree with (although I might not have all the info). He seemed very mercenary this summer, testing the market as an RFA, and seemed perfectly willing to sign to the highest bidder.

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08-11-2004, 09:57 AM
  #46
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I appologize for believing the words that came out of his mouth over what your 'sources' have told you.. especially considering Pronger did not receive one offer from another team.

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08-11-2004, 10:32 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
I appologize for believing the words that came out of his mouth over what your 'sources' have told you.. especially considering Pronger did not receive one offer from another team.
No need to get snarky... I have absolutely no sources, and I never claimed to have any. As I said, I could be missing information, but I was just under the impression that he signed only after waiting to see if another team was willing to up the ante.

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08-11-2004, 10:35 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil slick
No need to get snarky... I have absolutely no sources, and I never claimed to have any. As I said, I could be missing information, but I was just under the impression that he signed only after waiting to see if another team was willing to up the ante.
my sources said the same thing about Eric Brewer. We obviously have the same 'sources' and they're equally reliable

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Old
08-11-2004, 10:41 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaraholic
my sources said the same thing about Eric Brewer. We obviously have the same 'sources' and they're equally reliable
I agree with you about Eric Brewer. I think there is no way he'd be willing to sign a long term deal for less money once he hits UFA. He's demanded his fair market value throughout his RFA career, as I think Pronger has.

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08-11-2004, 10:43 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil slick
No need to get snarky... I have absolutely no sources, and I never claimed to have any. As I said, I could be missing information, but I was just under the impression that he signed only after waiting to see if another team was willing to up the ante.
Pronger signed his deal when he did because his qualifying offer was about to expire. Just like anyone else who would rather not sign their qualifying offer because they want a longer term deal, he waited till the last minute but had no choice to sign it.

Also, there's this little fact that Pronger offered a long term deal to the Blues months ago.

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