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Iginla to Bruins

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Old
08-15-2011, 10:03 AM
  #76
Oates2Neely
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Too old. I'd only want players who are younger than 22 and/or picks. No sense picking up a guy who will likely be about to hit the downslope of his career by the time the rest of the rebuild has caught up to him.
Krejci is a very old 24

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08-15-2011, 10:07 AM
  #77
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Gotta love all the armchair GMs saying "Seguin or no deal." There is ZERO chance Seguin would be involved in this deal, and I guarantee you no other Seguin equivalent from other teams will be either. You only trade players/prospects like Seguin for young established players that will be around for a while (Richards and Carter deals with Schenn and Voracek). You don't trade a Seguin for what could be a rental/aging veteran. You want a sure thing to give up that much value,

Fact is, Iginla is a veteran, he wants to win a Cup. What happens when Iginla realizes hes not gonna win a Cup in Calgary anytime soon (not a dig, just being realisitc)? Its not completely unheard of for a franchise's face to get traded for a Cup opportunity (see Ray Bourque).

Listen, if Calgary has a down year next year then they have a LOT of cap space coming off the books, which could mean some serious house cleaning/rebuild. Does anyone really think its completely unheard of that Iginla would want to go to a Contender?

I could be wrong obviously, but when it comes down to it, I'd be comfortable saying no GM will trade a Seguin-like prospect (RNH, Schenn, Hall, etc.) for what could be a short term rental or a vet that could decline at any time (not saying he will, but its possible).

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08-15-2011, 10:12 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
To be fair, the Bruins somewhat fit the bill with Chara and trading Wideman and a first for third for Campbell and Horton...
lucic, bergeron, krejci, marchand and seguin were all drafted by the bruins.

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08-15-2011, 10:12 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Kid Canesten View Post
can you elaborate then? as a fan looking in from the outside, all i see is a minimal prospect cupboard and a lot of older veterans with no trade/movement clauses.

while i do understand a lot of cap is coming off the books next off-season, your prospect shelf will still be in the lower half of the league and what if the free agents who do make it to free agency (seeing how in the new league, all the young talent is locked up for a very long time) spurn calgary? then whats next? pull a florida and sign 3rd tier free agents to fill out the team?

a rebuild just seems like a logical thing to do. it really reminds me of ottawa's situation a couple years back. high priced talent yet we couldnt make it over the hump and an empty prospect cupboard. eventually, it lead to a rebuild.

im not trying to offend anyone and if im wrong, please let me know. its just that's what i see.
In that case Detroit should rebuild. You seem to forget how much more competitive we became after Sutter left and we were pretty close to a playoff spot. With that momentum Feaster decided to re-tool our team. This year's draft was the best we had in a while. Regehr leaving gave us cap space and a younger top 4 dman in Butler (hey, that's what Buffalo tells us what he is, we aren't overrating).

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08-15-2011, 10:14 AM
  #80
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by Birko19 View Post
He's valuable, but not valuable enough to trade away the future for, I think you will get a reality check if he's ever traded, because I doubt he will bring such return that you guys are asking for.

From Boston, I can see Nathan Horton + Jared Knight + 1st rounder being an equal value for Iginla.
Iginla would undoutedly be our best forward next year, but the problem is what happens after that? No GM is gonna give up there young stud for what could potentially be a rental.

Look at the Richards and Carter deals. Top prospects involved in a deal for young top players. Iginla is NOT a top young player. If Iginla was 27 I'd offer up Seguin+ in a heartbeat, because Iginla would be here for awhile and be the face of our franchise for years to come.

Not to say he isnt a great player, of course he is, but I think people are gonna be shocked if they expect to get Seguin-like return for a vet on the older side.

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Old
08-15-2011, 10:16 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Iginla would undoutedly be our best forward next year, but the problem is what happens after that? No GM is gonna give up there young stud for what could potentially be a rental.

Look at the Richards and Carter deals. Top prospects involved in a deal for young top players. Iginla is NOT a top young player. If Iginla was 27 I'd offer up Seguin+ in a heartbeat, because Iginla would be here for awhile and be the face of our franchise for years to come.

Not to say he isnt a great player, of course he is, but I think people are gonna be shocked if they expect to get Seguin-like return for a vet on the older side.
Wouldn't expect Seguin but I'd still consider something like a Carter or Richards deal, and what I mean by that is a first and a very good player, or your top prospect and a very good role player. Or a first and a top prospect for that matter; Iginla at 32 is better than Richards and Carter

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08-15-2011, 10:25 AM
  #82
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Calgary & Boston dont make great trading partners, especially with what some Calgary fans are suggesting as a return for Iginla. If Im Calgary, & the decision is made to rebuild & trade Iginla, I'd call Toronto. Burke needs a top-6 winger & they have decent assets available to move for him.

To TOR:
Iginla

To CGY:
Colborne
Biggs
Gunnarson
1st

This gives Calgary a big center (local boy) who's got 1st line potential.
Biggs gives them a potential top-6 winger, at worst 3rd line wing.
Gunnarson could evolve into a top-4 dman.
The 1st is sweetener.

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Old
08-15-2011, 10:29 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Rich0591 View Post
Wouldn't expect Seguin but I'd still consider something like a Carter or Richards deal, and what I mean by that is a first and a very good player, or your top prospect and a very good role player. Or a first and a top prospect for that matter; Iginla at 32 is better than Richards and Carter
Totally agree, Iginla is still a top player in this league, but he is by no means young. Richards and Carter can go to their new repsective teams and expect to be there for a while/be a key cog for years to come. Iginla is on the older side.

This is why I don't think theyre good trading partners. Highly doubt they trade Hamilton (same reason above), and I cant see them trading Krejci now that Savard is out of the picture.

You want young roster players/prospects, which is what our entire core is. Doubt wed trade our core that just won the Cup.

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08-15-2011, 10:36 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Totally agree, Iginla is still a top player in this league, but he is by no means young. Richards and Carter can go to their new repsective teams and expect to be there for a while/be a key cog for years to come. Iginla is on the older side.

This is why I don't think theyre good trading partners. Highly doubt they trade Hamilton (same reason above), and I cant see them trading Krejci now that Savard is out of the picture.

You want young roster players/prospects, which is what our entire core is. Doubt wed trade our core that just won the Cup.
Good points. No doubt Philly get a better return because Carter and Richards had long-term contracts underway. And yes I really doubt Boston would take apart their team at this point.

For the sake of the thread, though, Horton would seem like the player Boston wouldn't mind trading away and Calgary wouldn't mind receiving (he is streaky but still a first line player).

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08-15-2011, 10:37 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich0591 View Post
Wouldn't expect Seguin but I'd still consider something like a Carter or Richards deal, and what I mean by that is a first and a very good player, or your top prospect and a very good role player. Or a first and a top prospect for that matter; Iginla at 32 is better than Richards and Carter
Except Iginla is not 32 he's 34. (just sayin)

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08-15-2011, 10:39 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Canesten View Post
can you elaborate then? as a fan looking in from the outside, all i see is a minimal prospect cupboard and a lot of older veterans with no trade/movement clauses.

while i do understand a lot of cap is coming off the books next off-season, your prospect shelf will still be in the lower half of the league and what if the free agents who do make it to free agency (seeing how in the new league, all the young talent is locked up for a very long time) spurn calgary? then whats next? pull a florida and sign 3rd tier free agents to fill out the team?

a rebuild just seems like a logical thing to do. it really reminds me of ottawa's situation a couple years back. high priced talent yet we couldnt make it over the hump and an empty prospect cupboard. eventually, it lead to a rebuild.

im not trying to offend anyone and if im wrong, please let me know. its just that's what i see.
Yes, elaboration: 23 million in cap space next year with Moss, Jokinen and Jackman being the only guys we might want to resign. The only bad contracts left will be Bouwmeester (who I can live with) and Stajan.

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08-15-2011, 11:00 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Ashasx View Post
That's quite a list of options you have there, I'm glad you're not pulling towards one direction.

How about re-tool, continue to draft well, and pick up some solid free agents during the 2012 off-season, or make some quality trades?

You know, completely skip all the crap the Flames fans went through from 1996-2003, and instead of wasting that time, do what is necessarily to create a successful team?
Doesn't continuing something imply that you would have started it at some point? Drafting is why you have such a craptastic prospect pool.

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08-15-2011, 11:20 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Doesn't continuing something imply that you would have started it at some point? Drafting is why you have such a craptastic prospect pool.
Lol troll. It's already started but nice try. Have fun being at the basement again

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08-15-2011, 11:41 AM
  #89
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Lol troll. It's already started but nice try. Have fun being at the basement again
Umm... he raising a good point. Calgary has been awful drafting for awhile. Hard to call pointing out the obvious trolling.

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08-15-2011, 11:49 AM
  #90
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Depends where BOS and CGY are at come deadline. If BOS needs that extra push I could see them paying a hefty fine to acquire Iginla. Only way Iggy is available is if the flames are out if it come deadline, even then he might not be.

I'd do Seguin straight up, but HFboards would melt down.

But a 1st, top prospect outside of Seguin, and an ok RW replacement would do valuewise.

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08-15-2011, 11:55 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Krejci is a very old 24
Oh I know, he's not actually an old player by any means, but the Flames are probably going to take 5+ years for a reasonable player turnover to complete (barring some miraculous trades/drafting), and thus I'd prefer guys who aren't even in their mid 20s. There's also the fact that he's established, and I think the Flames could get more in terms of young, unproven guys; it's more of a risk, but potentially better value long-term.

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08-15-2011, 12:00 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Umm... he raising a good point. Calgary has been awful drafting for awhile. Hard to call pointing out the obvious trolling.
Inaccurate. Calgary was awful at drafting for years, but they've done reasonably well since the lockout. Irving might not have been the best choice in 06, but given where they drafted, Backlund, Erixon, and Baerstchi are all good picks (Nemisz, well, we'll see). The other prospects are too young to tell for the most part, but at the very least Brodie and Reinhart look to be excellent value for their draft positions.

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08-15-2011, 12:02 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Oh I know, he's not actually an old player by any means, but the Flames are probably going to take 5+ years for a reasonable player turnover to complete (barring some miraculous trades/drafting), and thus I'd prefer guys who aren't even in their mid 20s. There's also the fact that he's established, and I think the Flames could get more in terms of young, unproven guys; it's more of a risk, but potentially better value long-term.
And at 29 he's in his prime for like another 5-6 years. If your team completes a rebuild by the time a dude is 29 and then fails to win a cup by like 36-37 when he's leaving his prime I really don't know what to say. If you really "need" the guy to be 22 instead that means you're basically setting yourself up to be willing to wait like a decade+ since AFTER the 5-6 year rebuild process. The point is you're going to want to be in win now mode after max 5-6 years, where Krecji will still be a 29-30 year old center in his prime who won the cup as a first line C and did so well.

Either way it doesn't make sense anyway you look at it to say a 24 year old proven 1st line C cup winner is "too old" to trade for due to a rebuild, but it's perfectly fine to do the same trade for a 22 year old unproven cup winner who was benched a lot and didn't exactly perform?

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08-15-2011, 12:04 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Calgary & Boston dont make great trading partners, especially with what some Calgary fans are suggesting as a return for Iginla. If Im Calgary, & the decision is made to rebuild & trade Iginla, I'd call Toronto. Burke needs a top-6 winger & they have decent assets available to move for him.

To TOR:
Iginla

To CGY:
Colborne
Biggs
Gunnarson
1st

This gives Calgary a big center (local boy) who's got 1st line potential.
Biggs gives them a potential top-6 winger, at worst 3rd line wing.
Gunnarson could evolve into a top-4 dman.
The 1st is sweetener.
i think thats a pretty good package for iginla, calgary prob wont get a lottery pick or a guy like seguin, and that 1st is likely a top 15, possibly top 10

i see no reason why toronto would make that trade though

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08-15-2011, 12:04 PM
  #95
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Im no expert but I think Calgary would demand Seguin+Marchand

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Old
08-15-2011, 12:09 PM
  #96
Oates2Neely
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
i think thats a pretty good package for iginla, calgary prob wont get a lottery pick or a guy like seguin, and that 1st is likely a top 15, possibly top 10

i see no reason why toronto would make that trade though



Why?

Lupul - Conolly - Kessel

Kulemin - Grabovski - Iginla

Kadri - Lombardi - MacArthur

Frattin - Bozak - Armstrong

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08-15-2011, 12:11 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Inaccurate. Calgary was awful at drafting for years, but they've done reasonably well since the lockout. Irving might not have been the best choice in 06, but given where they drafted, Backlund, Erixon, and Baerstchi are all good picks (Nemisz, well, we'll see). The other prospects are too young to tell for the most part, but at the very least Brodie and Reinhart look to be excellent value for their draft positions.
Please name the players that Calgary has drafted since the lockout that are regulars.

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08-15-2011, 12:13 PM
  #98
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Regardless of the return, if Iginla is traded, I very much doubt you'll see him on another Canadian team or in the same conference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Please name the players that Calgary has drafted since the lockout that are regulars.
I'd say the Flames started to draft better in 2007 with Backlund. I think we really improved in 2009 when we drafted Erixon, who is going to be the steal of that draft. Doesn't matter if he wanted to go to NY, he was still drafted by the Flames, and he would have made the team if he stayed.

Some late picks like Reinhart and Brodie look like solid picks as well.

I really hate the direction all of these threads seem to go in.


Last edited by Ashasx: 08-15-2011 at 12:18 PM.
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Old
08-15-2011, 12:16 PM
  #99
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Just for the record...

If Boston had not just won The Cup, I, as a life-long Bruin fan, would be willing to give up something like:

1. Seguin
2. 2012 1st
3. One of: Caron or Spooner or Knight

at the 2012 TDL for Iginla. BUT Boston just won The Cup and they are returning almost the exact same team. They lost two top-9 wings and their #6 defenseman. That's it. This team and this management group have built a great young team and they should be making Cup runs the next 10 years. I see no reason to doubt this group after what they just pulled off.


Last edited by 8BostonRocker24: 08-15-2011 at 12:37 PM.
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08-15-2011, 12:31 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Just for the record...

If Boston had not just won The Cup, I, as a life-long Bruin fan, would be willing to give up something like:

1. Seguin
2. 2012 1st
3. One of: Caron or Spooner or Knight

at the 2012 TDL for Iginla. BUT Boston just won The Cup and they are returning almost the exact same team. The lost two top-9 wings and their #6 defenseman. That's it. This team and this management group have built a great young team and they should be making Cup runs the next 10 years. I see no reason to doubt this group after what they just pulled off.
Good value. Good reasoning.

Calgary wont trade Iginla unless he says our team isn't cutting it and he'd like to try for a cup in Boston. Boston won't trade for Iginla unless they feel like less of a contender next year somehow and feel he puts them back on top.

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