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Old
08-11-2004, 08:57 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by kazo
You can already begin to see the handwriting on the wall. There will be more FA signings and, at the end of the day, this will be a veteran team. Oh, there will be the usual token talk of a "youth movement" and a couple of young guys will make the team, but at the end of the day this will be a veteran team, make no mistake about it. Nylander, Rucinsky, Hlavac, blah, blah, blah.......... what a joke.
Kazo,
We all knew that there would be signings. They simply could not have gone into a season with wha they had. By signing Nylander and possibly Rosie, you have at least what can pass for a first line. If you look at the line possibilities that I have posted above, you will see that there is more than enough youth there. I do not think that the recent signing is the signal for a "vet" team.

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08-11-2004, 09:33 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Edge
I know i agree to disagree with a few members, but I just can't get excited for a 31 going on 32 year old center who is injury prone and has only been a top line center by default on some pretty bad teams.

A three year deal means he'll be playing when he is 35. Can anyone honestly tell me they expect him to be durable for that long at this point?

As for the salary, maybe in the past it wasn't that high but this team now has 23 million dollars locked in to like 3 or 4 players. Not a good way to start out under a potential new labor agreement.
While I'm equally unexcited, I don't think calling him injury prone is fair. Prior to his broken leg last season he played in 82, 82 and 80 the three prior seasons.

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08-11-2004, 09:33 AM
  #78
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How is Nylander injury-prone? He missed most of last year with a broken leg (not exactly an injury thats a threat to recur), but in his previous 4 years he played in 80, 82, 82, and 77 games.

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08-11-2004, 09:34 AM
  #79
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Kazo,
We all knew that there would be signings. They simply could not have gone into a season with wha they had. By signing Nylander and possibly Rosie, you have at least what can pass for a first line. If you look at the line possibilities that I have posted above, you will see that there is more than enough youth there. I do not think that the recent signing is the signal for a "vet" team.
I agree and have been saying it all along, we had to sign a 1st line vet C (or a player that could play 1st line C for US) for the good of the team, our 1st line, and the positioning of the kids. Now, I don't want to touch Rosie with a 10 foot pole nor Hlavac with a 30-footer, but we still need to sign (or trade for) and established LW. And MAYBE even a 3rd line grinder (1 year contract).

That would still give us 6-8 young forwards (out of Lundamrk, Moore, Betts, Helminen, Balej, Ortmeir, Wiseman, Murray, Giroux, Hollweg and maybe even Prucha) out of the top 12, more then enough for rebuilding and more then enough for what we have ready at one time

And, I also expect Sather to sign a veteran D-man, a decision I will have no problem becasue it will help stabilize the units and we will still have guys like Rachunek (even if I don't like him), Tyutin, Pock and Kondraitev in a Top 7 and getting alot of ice time.

For once, I'm trying to be optimistic about the Rangers and their future and not expressi my typical gloomy thoughts. I see no reason to change that strategy.....YET

Except if, as hinted at in another thread, Sather signed that dried-up used colostomy bag know as Jan Hlavac....Then this team will continue to be screwed no matter what..


Last edited by Larry Melnyk: 08-11-2004 at 09:39 AM.
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08-11-2004, 09:47 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I know i agree to disagree with a few members, but I just can't get excited for a 31 going on 32 year old center who is injury prone and has only been a top line center by default on some pretty bad teams.

A three year deal means he'll be playing when he is 35. Can anyone honestly tell me they expect him to be durable for that long at this point?

As for the salary, maybe in the past it wasn't that high but this team now has 23 million dollars locked in to like 3 or 4 players. Not a good way to start out under a potential new labor agreement.
What changed with the Michael Nylander signing regarding having 3/4 players making $22-23 million combined?In comparison to what Nylander is making,he is a piker.The Rangers decided to lock up Bobby Holik and Darius Kasparaitis to the long term deals two summers ago and acquire Jaromir Jagr last January.Nothing has changed.The line should have been drawn then.Nylander is the 6th highest paid Ranger

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08-11-2004, 10:09 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Kazo,
We all knew that there would be signings. They simply could not have gone into a season with wha they had. By signing Nylander and possibly Rosie, you have at least what can pass for a first line. If you look at the line possibilities that I have posted above, you will see that there is more than enough youth there. I do not think that the recent signing is the signal for a "vet" team.
TB, I hear what you're saying but I still have that awful feeling that the Rangers will go into whenever the next season is with the mindset that we "must make the playoffs".

Rebuild? I gotta to see it to believe it.

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08-11-2004, 10:16 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazo
but I still have that awful feeling that the Rangers will go into whenever the next season is with the mindset that we "must make the playoffs".
Ordinarily, I would state that one would have to be out of their mind to think that the above mentality is the idea for next year, based upon the current roster. However, this IS Jackass & Lil' Jimmy we are talking about, so one never does know.

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08-11-2004, 11:13 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by True Blue
Ordinarily, I would state that one would have to be out of their mind to think that the above mentality is the idea for next year, based upon the current roster. However, this IS Jackass & Lil' Jimmy we are talking about, so one never does know.
It may happen slower than usual because of the CBA, but I just can't see the Rangers icing a lineup other than largely made up guys on the wrong side of 30. Let's see who will be the next will be.

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08-11-2004, 11:29 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by pld459666
but if he were diagnosed with a concussion he would not have been allowed to play in the next game a mere 2 days later at most and if he was "diagnosed" as having the flu and they fully know that he was having concussion like symptoms enough that it would keep him out at least one game then there are liabilitiy issues with the Boston training staff.

Unfortunately in this day and age of the money that is hanging in the balance I would doubt that they would let him play had he had a concussion regardless of the severity.
They confirmed after the playoffs that Nylander had concussion and Samsonov had light concussion.

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08-11-2004, 11:31 AM
  #85
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Unless I'm mistaken when Mario was out a number of years ago, Jan Hrdina was Pitt's first line center
for Jagr. When Jagr is playing well he can transform a playmaking 2nd line center ito a first line center.

Just for comparison's sake, I'd rather have Nylander as my $3 million pseudo-1st line center than Nedved as my $5 million pseudo-1st line center or Holik as my $9 million pseudo-1st line center.

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08-11-2004, 11:49 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Ordinarily, I would state that one would have to be out of their mind to think that the above mentality is the idea for next year, based upon the current roster. However, this IS Jackass & Lil' Jimmy we are talking about, so one never does know.
the goal of this team next season is to make the playoffs. it isn't a realistic goal but its not impossible.

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08-11-2004, 12:02 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor
Unless I'm mistaken when Mario was out a number of years ago, Jan Hrdina was Pitt's first line center
for Jagr. When Jagr is playing well he can transform a playmaking 2nd line center ito a first line center.

Just for comparison's sake, I'd rather have Nylander as my $3 million pseudo-1st line center than Nedved as my $5 million pseudo-1st line center or Holik as my $9 million pseudo-1st line center.
How come? Holik is still the only center on this team that can handle the physical rigors that come with top line minutes, and Jagr can make him a more productive player.... Nylander would be a perfect fit with Balej and Lundmark, 2 guys who actually need a playmaker at this stage of their careers, and Nylander wont have to face the big forwards/dmen...making that line potentially even more dangerous

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08-11-2004, 12:21 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor
Unless I'm mistaken when Mario was out a number of years ago, Jan Hrdina was Pitt's first line center
for Jagr. When Jagr is playing well he can transform a playmaking 2nd line center ito a first line center.

Just for comparison's sake, I'd rather have Nylander as my $3 million pseudo-1st line center than Nedved as my $5 million pseudo-1st line center or Holik as my $9 million pseudo-1st line center.

It's not about skills!!! Samsonov - Nylander - Bergeron had GREAT chemistry together! If they were 2nd liners for the playoffs and other team concentrated physical effort on the first line they would do great! (well they kind of did), but that when problems started! They scored many points during the first couple of games but then Nyles and Sammy where hit pretty hard. (Btw Washington fans also had the same opinion about Nylander)

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08-11-2004, 12:44 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsGirl
It's not about skills!!! Samsonov - Nylander - Bergeron had GREAT chemistry together! If they were 2nd liners for the playoffs and other team concentrated physical effort on the first line they would do great! (well they kind of did), but that when problems started! They scored many points during the first couple of games but then Nyles and Sammy where hit pretty hard. (Btw Washington fans also had the same opinion about Nylander)
I don't see a point here. what are you saying, that Jagr's skills do not have the ability to make players around him better? if so, then i completely disagree. or maybe i misunderstood what you were saying.

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08-11-2004, 12:49 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Graveytrain
How come? Holik is still the only center on this team that can handle the physical rigors that come with top line minutes, and Jagr can make him a more productive player.... Nylander would be a perfect fit with Balej and Lundmark, 2 guys who actually need a playmaker at this stage of their careers, and Nylander wont have to face the big forwards/dmen...making that line potentially even more dangerous
I would hope if we have some young guys on the 4th line they get at least 8-12 minutes a game. That leaves about 50 minutes to be divided between the other 3 lines. No reason they can't be split about equally (17 minutes a line). Of course I'm not figuring in the speciatly teams but Jagr would probably be on ice for at least the first 1:30 of every PP.

Jagr often draws double teams, therefore freeing up either Nylander or the left wing or one of d-men.

I'm afraid a line of Nylander, Balej and Lundmark would get pummeled by a team like the Flyers.

As SOS will tell you, I don't know **** about hockey. It's just my opinion.

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08-11-2004, 12:52 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
the goal of this team next season is to make the playoffs. it isn't a realistic goal but its not impossible.
I actually whole-heartedly agree with your last statement. The playoffs are indeed a possibility, however improbable. However, I would say that the goal for next year is three-fold:
1. Let the younger players who will make the team properly develop and learn.
2. Re-establish the long lost concept of accountability in a locker room that has not had it for 7 years now.
3. Finally establish and learn how to play a system that can actually work in today's NHL.
Not that I do not want the playoffs, however, to me they would just be gravy.

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08-11-2004, 02:16 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor
I would hope if we have some young guys on the 4th line they get at least 8-12 minutes a game. That leaves about 50 minutes to be divided between the other 3 lines. No reason they can't be split about equally (17 minutes a line). Of course I'm not figuring in the speciatly teams but Jagr would probably be on ice for at least the first 1:30 of every PP.

Jagr often draws double teams, therefore freeing up either Nylander or the left wing or one of d-men.

I'm afraid a line of Nylander, Balej and Lundmark would get pummeled by a team like the Flyers.

As SOS will tell you, I don't know **** about hockey. It's just my opinion.

Perhaps that line is a little sketchy, but i think they are alot less likely to endure that type of punishment with Holik and Jagr diverting attention away from them.. i still think Nylander can make Balej and Lundmark a little more dangerous with his passing skills, more so then Holik can, who IMO could thrive with Jagr and make Bobby a better player himself... giving Renney 2 lines that teams need to pay attention to... Holik is not going to make many around him better, therefore i dont see a Holik-Balej combo being one that opposing teams pay much attention to, most would take there chances and focus on Nylander-Jagr which could cause big problems...

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08-11-2004, 03:22 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by klingsor
I would hope if we have some young guys on the 4th line they get at least 8-12 minutes a game. That leaves about 50 minutes to be divided between the other 3 lines. No reason they can't be split about equally (17 minutes a line). Of course I'm not figuring in the speciatly teams but Jagr would probably be on ice for at least the first 1:30 of every PP.

Jagr often draws double teams, therefore freeing up either Nylander or the left wing or one of d-men.

I'm afraid a line of Nylander, Balej and Lundmark would get pummeled by a team like the Flyers.

As SOS will tell you, I don't know **** about hockey. It's just my opinion.
come on man i never said u don't know **** about hockey. I was talking about baseball

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08-11-2004, 03:26 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by True Blue
I actually whole-heartedly agree with your last statement. The playoffs are indeed a possibility, however improbable. However, I would say that the goal for next year is three-fold:
1. Let the younger players who will make the team properly develop and learn.
2. Re-establish the long lost concept of accountability in a locker room that has not had it for 7 years now.
3. Finally establish and learn how to play a system that can actually work in today's NHL.
Not that I do not want the playoffs, however, to me they would just be gravy.
if the rangers do all 3 of those things next season they will challange for a playoff spot.

dunham needs to have a career year

jagr needs to play as hard as he did after he got traded to the rangers

poti needs to take his skill to the next level and beyond

the problem with the rangers is all of there top forward prospects are either projects or too small to get excited over. i'll be looking more at the effort of the team more than the results but if its march and the rangers are in the mix for a spot in the playoffs i hope they don't abandon the rebuild to break the 7 year hiatus.




Damn i miss disagreeing with you.

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08-11-2004, 03:42 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
come on man i never said u don't know **** about hockey. I was talking about baseball
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08-11-2004, 03:48 PM
  #96
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i still don't see where i posted you know nothing about hockey. damn bro i think i may have hurt your feelings if i did i'm sorry.

perhaps you should post the whole thread so things can't be taken out of context. i stand by what i said though i really don't think you know anything about the players the rangers got back in the nedved trade.

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08-11-2004, 04:22 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Fotiu22
I don't see a point here. what are you saying, that Jagr's skills do not have the ability to make players around him better? if so, then i completely disagree. or maybe i misunderstood what you were saying.
Nyles had enough skills by himself..he doesn't need somebody to make him better. His main problem ..he is not physical to handle 1st C duty. (He wasn't in Washington, he wasn't in Boston when Thornton was injured)

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08-11-2004, 09:15 PM
  #98
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to those complaining about the nylander siging i assume u would rather have lindros back or maybe even sign allison, or no wait we can have our top 4 centers be lundmark ,moore ,betts and juris stals . that would work.

nylander signing was a great move by sather he got 3 years whats the big deal 3 mill per is cheap, nylander will egt time with balej and lunds and maybe murray on occasion and he will help there games , since nylander is a very good set up man. and just cause nyr is rebuilding as they say vets are still needed to fill holes and we have no depth at center at all none , u all know that.moore to me is a flop future ahler maybe 4th liner our only real center man that is young is lunds and i think he will turn out ok, just have to be patient like other teams were with there youth. look at shane doan took him 4 or 5 years to get on the ball, and look now he is putting good numbers the last couple year . nyr fans if there is a rebuild we must be patient i know i am.

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08-11-2004, 09:24 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I know i agree to disagree with a few members, but I just can't get excited for a 31 going on 32 year old center who is injury prone and has only been a top line center by default on some pretty bad teams.

A three year deal means he'll be playing when he is 35. Can anyone honestly tell me they expect him to be durable for that long at this point?

As for the salary, maybe in the past it wasn't that high but this team now has 23 million dollars locked in to like 3 or 4 players. Not a good way to start out under a potential new labor agreement.
He had injury problems the last two seasons, right? Not everyone is an Eric Lindros or a Pavel Bure. Plus, I'm getting SO sick of the collective knock on 30+ players... we don't have much success with older players in NY, but Nylander is not a primma donna. And 32 is not really that old. That's Jagr's age, should we not have gotten him for the sake of keeping Anson Carter?

Why can't he last till 35? I see no reason... I think he can put around 65 points with Jagr. Give him a chance!

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08-11-2004, 09:30 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
He had injury problems the last two seasons, right? Not everyone is an Eric Lindros or a Pavel Bure. Plus, I'm getting SO sick of the collective knock on 30+ players... we don't have much success with older players in NY, but Nylander is not a primma donna. And 32 is not really that old. That's Jagr's age, should we not have gotten him for the sake of keeping Anson Carter?

Why can't he last till 35? I see no reason... I think he can put around 65 points with Jagr. Give him a chance!
ai agree . 32 is not old and he is not a primadonna, he should work good with the youths also. good move by sather

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