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Old
08-18-2011, 12:17 AM
  #126
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Does it fit in a bread box?

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Old
08-18-2011, 02:05 AM
  #127
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Yeah, you're way off here. The company line since the rebuild started has consistently been: We want to build a team that's going to be good for a long time, to try to win a couple Cups, instead of going all in for one Cup run.

That's been said time and time again.
That's the company line. Of course he's going to say that. And he does mean it. He means it only so much as to not upset the gravy train. He said it point blank indisputable his words. The most important thing is the stability of the franchise. So he ensured that when he had his chance and hoped for the best in the stated goal.

I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same. He put in a lot of money. He outlays a lot into the team. We can't complain one bit in that regard.

But to say I'm way off base and trot out the company
Line. That's just weak man.

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08-18-2011, 02:11 AM
  #128
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What do you think was the first thought that went through Ted's mind once BB turned it around?

"this guy can lead us to a cup"

Or

"this guy can help us fill the arena"

And if the two came into conflict in Ted's mind, which we he have chosen?

That's the point I'm making wrt euro's question about why it took management so long to change their tune.

It's either a) they prioritized tickets or b) their ******* idiots.
And I believe a).

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08-18-2011, 02:14 AM
  #129
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The best leadership tactic I've ever seen from BB was telling the guys "great, you're mediocre" when they hit .500. I really wish he'd repeat that now.

Great. You finish in top 8 of the league. For your talent, you're mediocre.

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08-18-2011, 02:15 AM
  #130
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Is it Ted's head?

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08-18-2011, 07:43 AM
  #131
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I think it all has to be taken with a grain of salt. There is frustration, venting and truth in his statements, but we're not in a position to know how much of each it really is.

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08-18-2011, 08:15 AM
  #132
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But to say I'm way off base and trot out the company
Line. That's just weak man.
I don't see how it's weak in the slightest. You asserted that he's said the franchise value is the most important thing, and that he wasn't trying to win a Cup. That's completely inconsistent with everything he's said (and done). The only evidence we hvae quite clearly shows that a Cup is most certainly a goal.

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08-18-2011, 08:20 AM
  #133
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What do you think was the first thought that went through Ted's mind once BB turned it around?

"this guy can lead us to a cup"

Or

"this guy can help us fill the arena"

And if the two came into conflict in Ted's mind, which we he have chosen?

That's the point I'm making wrt euro's question about why it took management so long to change their tune.

It's either a) they prioritized tickets or b) their ******* idiots.
And I believe a).
Now you're just making all sorts of assumptions, the biggest of which is that the Caps can't win a Cup with Boudreau at the helm, which is absurd. So the two thoughts wouldn't come into conflict.

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08-18-2011, 08:40 AM
  #134
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hshs, i think the first thought that crossed leonsis mind about boudreau after the caps turned it around was whether the caps have any chance of making the playoffs. i personally dont think either a cup or filling the building came to mind at that point. purely realistically.

based on what i know about leonsis, changing a coach is an instant way to create interest and sell tickets. as a rule, a coaching change acknowledges a problem and then kicks into a long run of positive feelings and excitement. doing something is always more marketable than staying the course.

that tells me that mcphee and patrick believe that the best route to a championship is staying the course.

i think your basic train of thought that leonsis cares more about cash than cup is flawed.
a cup creates cash. the only way that a cup doesnt create a sea change for the capitals in the market place is if they repeat what happened when they went to the finals. falling on their face immediately afterward and giving back all of their gains.

i think we forget the things that shape this owner's thought process. he had a team go for broke and make a finals run. there was great buzz about the team for the next season and they missed the playoffs and killed the growth. this would be why leonsis wants a sustainable team. he wants a team that can hold the market share that its gained and then move forward.

as is the case in many sports, your best chance to win is by putting yourself in position to win on a consistant basis. teams that should win lose and teams that were not expected to win do. if the caps are in a position to make a run 5 or 6 years in a row, they are more likely to win than if they go all in for one run and have to spend the next two seasons recovering.

we can disagree if thats what we think will work, but i think statistically you'd find that its the most likely route to success.

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Old
08-18-2011, 08:44 AM
  #135
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...5LJ_story.html

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08-18-2011, 09:43 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Now you're just making all sorts of assumptions, the biggest of which is that the Caps can't win a Cup with Boudreau at the helm, which is absurd. So the two thoughts wouldn't come into conflict.
No it's the same old same old. That BB's characteristics have limitations. It's not that they can't, it's that the free-for-all attitude restricts their potential.

Have you any opinion or analysis about why this smart businessman would allow this environment other than "it was working" on the #1 stated goal? That goal was STABILITY not VALUE. And the caps were certainly unstable in nov 2007.

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Old
08-18-2011, 09:44 AM
  #137
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When you have a cast system like the Caps have, the 3rd and 4th liners who see what is going on with the prima donnas, and are working their butts off, these guys one day or the other, are gonna call out the system.

It is NOT an environment where a winner will generate as nobody is 100% committed to the system preached by the Coach and nobody is 100% ready to suffer for the team or pay the price for the team in your top lines.

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Old
08-18-2011, 09:46 AM
  #138
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I don't see how it's weak in the slightest. You asserted that he's said the franchise value is the most important thing, and that he wasn't trying to win a Cup. That's completely inconsistent with everything he's said (and done). The only evidence we hvae quite clearly shows that a Cup is most certainly a goal.
No I did not.

Their long term goal etc etc etc is about rosters and development. The idea that the long term cup contention has anything to do with a single coach that can be dropped in a slash of a pen is <insert derogatory word here>.

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08-18-2011, 09:50 AM
  #139
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<-----

This interview boils down to leadership. Or lack thereof. You can love a guy personally. He can be a great tactician. But if you don't make the tough decisions. If you can't sacrifice some for the good of all. If you don't put your mission before your men. Then you can't lead.

Let's just see how the new attitude by GMGM (and hopefully BB) and the players (as quoted by Laich/Carlson). Play out.

However this interview just re-affirms what many of us BB critics and Semin critics already knew. And no 66 winning % in regular season is going to change the qualities needed to get this core crew over the top.
^what he said. Bottom line: More structure/discipline is needed. It starts with BB and it's why many of us want him replaced.

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08-18-2011, 09:56 AM
  #140
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Pretty good read. Also pretty much what we've been saying here, but without the heart-on-the-sleeve feeling and random infighting.

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08-18-2011, 10:37 AM
  #141
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Tarik still writes about the Caps?!?

i think the tone of that article echos what many here feel: Bradley dropped no bombshell, no great revelation... merely affirmation of what many have observed under the BB regime. the Kettler Country Club.

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08-18-2011, 10:50 AM
  #142
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All I gotta say is thank you Matt Bradley!

This interview is getting huge coverage and it has to be flat out embarrassing to the coaching staff and management.

Discipline these prodigal talents and mold them into men. It's time.

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08-18-2011, 11:12 AM
  #143
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All I gotta say is thank you Matt Bradley!

This interview is getting huge coverage and it has to be flat out embarrassing to the coaching staff and management.

Discipline these prodigal talents and mold them into men. It's time.
Yep. He has the imperative to do so now (now = since July 2, not since the article). It's a question of whether he has the mettle and ability to change his personal coaching style (unless the last four years have not been his personal coaching style, which I doubt), and the respect of the players who need to listen to him. He has the veteran locker room support in place (in theory). It's make or break time.

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Old
08-18-2011, 11:58 AM
  #144
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Sorry took so long to respond... damn work.

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hshs, i think the first thought that crossed leonsis mind about boudreau after the caps turned it around was whether the caps have any chance of making the playoffs. i personally dont think either a cup or filling the building came to mind at that point. purely realistically.
I meant as he was making the decision on permanent vs temp coach ie after the Flyers series. Obviously we were all caught up in the now when they were moving along the season.

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based on what i know about leonsis, changing a coach is an instant way to create interest and sell tickets. as a rule, a coaching change acknowledges a problem and then kicks into a long run of positive feelings and excitement. doing something is always more marketable than staying the course.
Once again I'm talking about spring 2008.

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that tells me that mcphee and patrick believe that the best route to a championship is staying the course.
agreed I think at this point and time the leadership believes their best course of action is to change their approach, maintain continuity, and hope the players respond. Its what we ALL hope for... except Atlas. But that doesn't address TL thought process 2008 to 2009.

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i think your basic train of thought that leonsis cares more about cash than cup is flawed.
a cup creates cash. the only way that a cup doesnt create a sea change for the capitals in the market place is if they repeat what happened when they went to the finals. falling on their face immediately afterward and giving back all of their gains.
Its not my train of thought its words from TL himself. STABILITY is #1. And BB's tactics brought that. Obviously a cup would bring more. But they had a very very good chance at their #1 objective... and they accomplished it.

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i think we forget the things that shape this owner's thought process. he had a team go for broke and make a finals run. there was great buzz about the team for the next season and they missed the playoffs and killed the growth. this would be why leonsis wants a sustainable team. he wants a team that can hold the market share that its gained and then move forward.

as is the case in many sports, your best chance to win is by putting yourself in position to win on a consistant basis. teams that should win lose and teams that were not expected to win do. if the caps are in a position to make a run 5 or 6 years in a row, they are more likely to win than if they go all in for one run and have to spend the next two seasons recovering.

we can disagree if thats what we think will work, but i think statistically you'd find that its the most likely route to success.
Exactly... stability. Also their stated goal of competing for a long time IS by definition stability and best achieved by NOT going for it. And that argument I've never joined. But that discussion has nothing to do with why they tolerated BB's poor leadership.

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08-18-2011, 12:09 PM
  #145
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i can tell you that i have first hand experience with this situation. i race cars. i dont have the budget to go for broke, wreck, write off a car and just write a check for another one.

my goal is to get my car and my driving so that i am running solidly in the hunt. i am never willing to risk taking 3 steps back in my program to win a race. checkers or wrecker ends up on the wrecker more often than not. and....its just not necessary. if a guy is willing to crash to win, he usually crashes and i win. even if i dont win, he is not there the next race and my chances to win get better without the risk.

if i told you that leonsis was going to go all in to win it this season and win or lose it would be the last time in the next 3 or 4 years that they would have a reasonable chance to win, would you really choose that over a reasonable chance to win that season plus the next 3 or 4 seasons?

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Old
08-18-2011, 12:40 PM
  #146
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No it's the same old same old. That BB's characteristics have limitations. It's not that they can't, it's that the free-for-all attitude restricts their potential.

Have you any opinion or analysis about why this smart businessman would allow this environment other than "it was working" on the #1 stated goal? That goal was STABILITY not VALUE. And the caps were certainly unstable in nov 2007.
It's got nothing to do with smart business. Ted's not in hockey to make money. If he were, he'd be a bad businessman.

He's allowing this situation because he's loyal (rightly or wrongly) to his guys.

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Old
08-18-2011, 12:52 PM
  #147
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i can tell you that i have first hand experience with this situation. i race cars. i dont have the budget to go for broke, wreck, write off a car and just write a check for another one.

my goal is to get my car and my driving so that i am running solidly in the hunt. i am never willing to risk taking 3 steps back in my program to win a race. checkers or wrecker ends up on the wrecker more often than not. and....its just not necessary. if a guy is willing to crash to win, he usually crashes and i win. even if i dont win, he is not there the next race and my chances to win get better without the risk.

if i told you that leonsis was going to go all in to win it this season and win or lose it would be the last time in the next 3 or 4 years that they would have a reasonable chance to win, would you really choose that over a reasonable chance to win that season plus the next 3 or 4 seasons?
Dude then you should understand my point. If you had barely money to survive... and someone could give you some tires that allowed you to compete, get money, get stability, all the while wasting some top performing engine you'd do it.... that decision at that point in time you set aside the #1 goal for stability.

Your last part has nothing to do with that initial decision. Whole heartedly agree with your last point as I already stated.

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Old
08-18-2011, 01:22 PM
  #148
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Already 12 pages of comments on TSN from 9:30am..

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08-18-2011, 02:58 PM
  #149
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I'd be interested in what Arnott thinks of Boudreau, McPhee, etc. He knows a thing or two about what it takes to win.

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08-18-2011, 03:36 PM
  #150
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after he left Brendan Morrison didnt have the greatest review of the way the Caps do business either... at the time it was dismissed as sour grapes by the aristocracy here.


ˇViva la Revolución!

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