do you think CT's ultimate upside could be in the line of Daniel Briere? Similar size, good offensive ability...
I have said it before, if Thomas reaches his potential, he will a Mike Cammelerri clone.
With all of that said, I'd take Kreider. I think he has a sharper learning curve and with his physical tools, his stats will transfer over to the NHL much better than Thomas'.
It's a close call but I gotta go with Kreider. Bringing up Dawes is valid. We've had 50-goal scorers in the CHL before. It doesn't mean they can translate to the NHL every time.
The question is about offensive play; not only goal scoring. Love them both but Kreider, with his size, speed, passing skills and shot will generate more offense than Thomas. Thomas will likely score more goals, but he will need alot of help. Kreider will create offense and finish often enough. In three years, I'd love to see these two flanking Step and them being the best young line in the league. That would be great.
But there's a reason Kreider was a first rounder and Thomas wasn't, isn't there?
I'll give you three guesses on what made Thomas drop and the first two don't count.
Listen, i'm high on both of them and expect that they'll both make the NHL some day, but to completely discount the size difference between the two is ludicrous. You know who didn't become MSL?
Size is a serious issue CT is going to need to overcome to become a good NHL player.
Thomas is better at everything (literally) than Dawes ever could be. He's a FAR better skater, which is the huge difference.
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It's a close call but I gotta go with Kreider. Bringing up Dawes is valid. We've had 50-goal scorers in the CHL before. It doesn't mean they can translate to the NHL every time.
Dawes is not a valid comparison at all, to be honest.
IMO both have the same potential ceiling as far as points and goals go.
The difference is Kreider will be able to create chances for himself, play in all situations, score in many ways (crash and bang, snipe, tips and deflections, breakaways).
Where as Thomas is a guy who relies on his teammates to get him the puck in an open area of the ice. He's one dimensional, and could be a liability defensively.
Take that into account Kreider > Thomas in every aspect.
Their shots are pretty on par with one another.
But because Kreider chose one last year in NCAA, Thomas has a golden opportunity in camp. If he doesn't grab that spot, next year he will have to contend with Kreider, Miller, Yogan, Fasth, Hagelin... that's an awful tough group to compete with.
Give me the Canadian kid with the dad who played in the NHL over an American kid who prefers to play against inferior competition in the NCAA any day of the year.
Give me the Canadian kid with the dad who played in the NHL over an American kid who prefers to play against inferior competition in the NCAA any day of the year.
Inferior to what? The OHL? Hardly.
Has Thomas played against NHL caliber players in mens international tournaments? No. Has he played WJC hockey? No. Kreider has, both.
NCAA National Championship.
Memorial Cup? No.
What Steve Thomas did has no baring on what Christian will be.
This logic is flawed.
If Thomas doesn't earn a spot this year, his competition for the following season is stiff to say the least.
I'm not sure why Dawes is always brought up as a comparison for Thomas. One can skate and the other could not.
In a vacuum, I think Thomas has more pure offensive upside. Kreider has the speed and the size, but Thomas can score from virtually anywhere inside the blue line if given the opportunity. That kind of raw scoring ability is tough to find.
IMO both have the same potential ceiling as far as points and goals go.
The difference is Kreider will be able to create chances for himself, play in all situations, score in many ways (crash and bang, snipe, tips and deflections, breakaways).
Where as Thomas is a guy who relies on his teammates to get him the puck in an open area of the ice. He's one dimensional, and could be a liability defensively.
Take that into account Kreider > Thomas in every aspect.
Their shots are pretty on par with one another.
But because Kreider chose one last year in NCAA, Thomas has a golden opportunity in camp. If he doesn't grab that spot, next year he will have to contend with Kreider, Miller, Yogan, Fasth, Hagelin... that's an awful tough group to compete with.
Thomas doesn't rely on other players to score, Thomas has the ability to create scoring chances on his own.
Thomas doesn't rely on other players to score, Thomas has the ability to create scoring chances on his own.
At the Junior level, he may be able to.
Against grown men in the NHL? I'll have to see it to believe it.
Somehow, I don't envision him winning many battles for the puck. Nor deaking players socks off. Or fighting infront of the net. He will have to be sneaky in the offensive zone to get open and use his speed to the outside.
NHL is a different animal then the OHL for every player, especially small players.
Kreider, on the otherhand, doesn't have to worry about that, he's 6-3, 217 lbs now. With speed to go to the outside, strength to win battles for pucks and to stay around the net.
Whatever game is working for Thomas in the OHL, will almost definitely have to be adjusted a lot to compensate for the bigger stronger competition.
For anyone who saying that "size doesn't matter"...
If Christian Thomas was 6'4" 200lbs in his draft year where does he get drafted?
...now stop listening to your girlfriend, she's just trying to make you feel better about it. Size matters! Get better at your foreplay and everything will be fine.
Against grown men in the NHL? I'll have to see it to believe it.
Somehow, I don't envision him winning many battles for the puck. Nor deaking players socks off. Or fighting infront of the net. He will have to be sneaky in the offensive zone to get open and use his speed to the outside.
NHL is a different animal then the OHL for every player, especially small players.
Kreider, on the otherhand, doesn't have to worry about that, he's 6-3, 217 lbs now. With speed to go to the outside, strength to win battles for pucks and to stay around the net.
Whatever game is working for Thomas in the OHL, will almost definitely have to be adjusted a lot to compensate for the bigger stronger competition.
How is that different from any other prospect?
You make so many assumptions about his play solely based on his size, you give off the perception that you've never seen him play, yet you're confident in saying that his game won't translate.
Thomas isn't a case of overpowering young under developed players to score, Thomas' success comes from being able to work his way around the offensive zone to put himself in the best possible position to score and from his incredible shot. He scored 54 goals last year because he understands exactly what he needs to do to score.
Dawes is not a valid comparison at all, to be honest.
Dawes may not be a valid comparison as a player, but it's valid in that we've had 50-goal scorers in the CHL before. It just goes to show that weaknesses in a players game may not be as apparent in Juniors and will be exposed in the NHL. Dawes major limitations were size and skating. Thomas's is size and who knows at this point if something else may hold him back.
My only point is that as great as 50 goals is, you have to stay a little bit grounded in reality here. Kreider has a lot less to overcome.
But there's a reason Kreider was a first rounder and Thomas wasn't, isn't there?
I'll give you three guesses on what made Thomas drop and the first two don't count.
Listen, i'm high on both of them and expect that they'll both make the NHL some day, but to completely discount the size difference between the two is ludicrous. You know who didn't become MSL?
Size is a serious issue CT is going to need to overcome to become a good NHL player.
If that draft were to be re-done, I guarantee you that Thomas would be drafted in the first round.
But there's a reason Kreider was a first rounder and Thomas wasn't, isn't there?
I'll give you three guesses on what made Thomas drop and the first two don't count.
Listen, i'm high on both of them and expect that they'll both make the NHL some day, but to completely discount the size difference between the two is ludicrous. You know who didn't become MSL?
Size is a serious issue CT is going to need to overcome to become a good NHL player.
While size certainly didn't help Dawes, he was built very very solid, and it wasn't his downfall. His downfall was he had zero sense of how to play two way hockey, and he was a slow skater. Dawes and Thomas are built very similar, both have very good shots and offensive instincts. Thomas can skate circles around Dawes, and his shiftiness makes him very difficult to pin down.
Give me the Canadian kid with the dad who played in the NHL over an American kid who prefers to play against inferior competition in the NCAA any day of the year.
This, thank you! It's just absolutely ridiculous that a top-20 pick in the 2009 ISN'T EVEN PLAYING PROFESSIONALLY YET! Oh, but he wants to finish college BOO-HOO just take classes over the summer like McD and Stepan are doing. I just don't see the commitment and potential in this kid. Wouldn't shed a single tear if we traded him for a top left wing that will help out THIS YEAR, instead of some kid who refuses to make the jump from his inferior college league.
