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The one thing we need to compete

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Old
10-01-2011, 11:20 AM
  #1
OCSportsfan
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The one thing we need to compete

I have been to a couple preseason games, and after last nights game, I notced we need one thing or we will not make it out of the first round again.

SIZE - Physical presence

Two major differences when we won the cup. Assume the first two lines are the same on offence and our top defence is the same as Neds and Beauch(which is a stretch from a physical standpoint)

Defence 2nd & 3rd pairing

Pronger
Odonnell
Huskins
Dipenta

All over 6'2" and over 215lbs and can check and fight

Now
Sbisa
Brookbank/Foster(does not play big)
Fowler
Beauch

More skill, but we cant knock anyone off the puck or push them out of the crease.

3rd/4th line offence - Physical, hard checking, tough to play against
Pahlsson
Moen
Neds
Thornton
May
Marchant

Now
Cogliano
McMillan
Maxime
Gordon
Belesky
Parros

Other than Parros, none of those players are known for hard checks, or playing physical. Now I like the fact that we have some speed and skill, but how nice would it be to have a Handzus(San Jose signing) or Moen back.

RC tried with a few players last year but none stuck.

The good news is that we are set up for a trade deadline player or two that could fill those roles on Defence and 3rd line, but I think we will see teams cycling the puck on us very often.

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10-01-2011, 11:36 AM
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Well if DSP makes the team, then we have one more hard hitter in our bottom 6.

I would like to have more grit in our bottom 6 but I'll take this season's lineup over last season's even though it had more bigger guys and hitters (Winchester, Ruutu etc). Ofcourse, if we could have back the 3rd line we had during the cup year, I think that every Ducks fan would take it in a heartbeat.

Brookbank can fight and Sbisa can hit. Beauchemin isn't that soft either. And you forgot Smaby who has size and can hit too. I'm not expecting any big hits out of Foster or Fowler but IMO they don't have to.

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10-01-2011, 12:09 PM
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The one thing we need to compete? Being able to spend to the cap

It's hard to compare our bottom 6 now to the cup year as we're going in a different direction with it, we want more scoring threats from our bottom 6 rather then a pure checking, defensive line per say. Specially if Gordon sticks on that 3rd line. I have no problem going for a more offensive 3rd line really, I don't think we really have the players currently anyway to play a checking line. It might be more of a possibility in say a year or two time with DSP and McMillan there as they look like they'll pan out to become good 2 way players. I wouldn't say Beleskey is soft either, he drops the gloves a fair bit and does throw the body around.

It's more we've just gone in a different direction for the 3rd line.

Also if you want a physical presence then Handzus isn't that, he's as weak as water IMO. I'd love Moen back though.

I wouldn't say our defence is particularly weak / non physical. At least 3 of our dman are physical and maybe 4 depending on Foster.


Last edited by mightyquack: 10-01-2011 at 12:14 PM.
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10-01-2011, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
The one thing we need to compete? Being able to spend to the cap
Yup. The cap says hi.

Having $8M in extra cap to spend would be quite nice. That gets us at least another Top6 forward and Top4 defenseman (and upgrades to spare parts).

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10-01-2011, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by c4rcy View Post
Yup. The cap says hi.

Having $8M in extra cap to spend would be quite nice. That gets us at least another Top6 forward and Top4 defenseman (and upgrades to spare parts).
Yep.

We have to rely on ELC players to step it up big time for us, but we're not always going to be able to have a Penner-Getz-Perry line to take us deep.

If we could spend to the cap we'd easily be a force IMO.

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10-01-2011, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
The one thing we need to compete? Being able to spend to the cap
Buy more tickets then... yes, I'm looking at you guy from a completely different continent.

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10-01-2011, 02:39 PM
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I wouldn't say it's the one thing we need, I don't think the team is that close.

But yes I do think that physicality is a major weak spot. Especially on the defense. It's something that could be pretty easily fixed, since physical guys can be cheap. However I wouldn't expect changes. I think the difference between 07 and now in physical presence is intentional, and has to do with the regime change since then.

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10-01-2011, 03:33 PM
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Gibson Les Palms
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More size and scoring beyond RPG.

More size and physicality on D. This would help our PMDs which are very good, from the offensive blue-line in. I think a big problem with the team is its average to below average transition game.


Last edited by Gibson Les Palms: 10-01-2011 at 03:45 PM.
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10-01-2011, 04:30 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCSportsfan View Post
I have been to a couple preseason games, and after last nights game, I notced we need one thing or we will not make it out of the first round again.

SIZE - Physical presence

Two major differences when we won the cup. Assume the first two lines are the same on offence and our top defence is the same as Neds and Beauch(which is a stretch from a physical standpoint)

Defence 2nd & 3rd pairing

Pronger
Odonnell
Huskins
Dipenta

All over 6'2" and over 215lbs and can check and fight

Now
Sbisa
Brookbank/Foster(does not play big)
Fowler
Beauch

More skill, but we cant knock anyone off the puck or push them out of the crease.
That's a stretch from any standpoint. I completely disagree that our blue line has more skill than it did in 06-07.

Niedermayer is on a different level than Visnovsky, and Pronger is on a different level than anyone remaining. Normally you'd make the depth argument, but Scotty and Prongs were able to go out there and play 25-30 minutes a game every night so their skill was pretty much always available.


Quote:
3rd/4th line offence - Physical, hard checking, tough to play against
Pahlsson
Moen
Neds
Thornton
May
Marchant

Now
Cogliano
McMillan
Maxime
Gordon
Belesky
Parros

Other than Parros, none of those players are known for hard checks, or playing physical. Now I like the fact that we have some speed and skill, but how nice would it be to have a Handzus(San Jose signing) or Moen back.

RC tried with a few players last year but none stuck.

The good news is that we are set up for a trade deadline player or two that could fill those roles on Defence and 3rd line, but I think we will see teams cycling the puck on us very often.
Also, in regards to our top two forward lines, they are also not the same. Keep in mind the Pahlsson line was getting big minutes, and relied on to play shutdown hockey. For all intents and purposes they were our 2nd line.

The differences between the current team and the Cup-winning team are quite significant. To the point where this team looks nothing like it, and it never will without some major changes. Forget one or two players, you'd be looking at almost a complete turnover of the roster.

Management has gone a completely different direction with this team. The philosophy has changed. If this team is going to win the Cup, it's going to be based on their current strengths, not the ones of 2006-2007.

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10-01-2011, 04:33 PM
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I don't expect the team to spend up to the cap until management feels they are really close to being a Cup favorite.

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10-01-2011, 04:41 PM
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we need DSP. and I think it's kinda pathetic the Ducks management wouldn't spend to the cap in what could be the final season for all of Selanne, Koivu and Blake... which is what... like 11 million dollars in salary or something?

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10-01-2011, 04:44 PM
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More cowbell

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Old
10-01-2011, 05:19 PM
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I agree that this team will not be the same as our Cup team, but we need to have some players that are going to be able to play against the bigger teams in the league. We will struggle against cycle teams by not being able to clear our zone.

I actually like the fact we are not up against the cap. The only postion we would have signed would be a top 4 stay at home defensemen that could play with Fowler. That would put Beauch with Sbisa on third line.

This way we can make that move at the deadline and absorb some contract to get a proven player for a playoff run.

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10-01-2011, 05:23 PM
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Sbisa and Beauch and Brookbank are undersized physical D-men, and Lydman is not physical, just a great player. No one on the team can keep the big Forwards from camping or pushing them off the puck. We just chase and hope we intercept a pass.


Last edited by OCSportsfan: 10-01-2011 at 05:33 PM.
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10-01-2011, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OCSportsfan View Post
I agree that this team will not be the same as our Cup team, but we need to have some players that are going to be able to play against the bigger teams in the league. We will struggle against cycle teams by not being able to clear our zone.

I actually like the fact we are not up against the cap. The only postion we would have signed would be a top 4 stay at home defensemen that could play with Fowler. That would put Beauch with Sbisa on third line.

This way we can make that move at the deadline and absorb some contract to get a proven player for a playoff run.
Beauchemin and Fowler has been our best pre-season pairing. That's a reason to keep them together, not split them apart.

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10-01-2011, 11:07 PM
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Jonas Hiller. If he's healthy we have a chance in any playoff series against any team.

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10-01-2011, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
Buy more tickets then... yes, I'm looking at you guy from a completely different continent.
Only if it's like the OC TV show there....

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10-01-2011, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Beauchemin and Fowler has been our best pre-season pairing. That's a reason to keep them together, not split them apart.
Absolutely agree. And like I said a while back, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see them average more minutes a game than Lydman-Visnovsky. They've been that good.

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10-02-2011, 12:05 AM
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Only if it's like the OC TV show there....
My real name is Marissa

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10-02-2011, 12:42 AM
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My real name is Marissa
Fame! I hope you can drive better then she did in the TV show...

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10-02-2011, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
Buy more tickets then... yes, I'm looking at you guy from a completely different continent.
Great idea! Just got myself a pair of tickets vs LA. With that out of the way, could someone of you SoCal posters notify the Samuelis so they may proceed to unleash Bob's fury onto the unsuspecting UFA market?

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10-02-2011, 12:46 AM
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We need Fowler and Sbisa to mature and get better. Beauch to step it up big time. Plus another good defensive Defenseman. Thx for trading Gardiner away BM, that really helped. NOT.

Then: A 2nd Line Center. I like Koivu but he isn't good enough for this position anymore. Our 2nd line needs to be re-juvinated. Get a good 2nd Line Center, let Cogs and Teemu play wing and we have a go here.

This year won't be a good year for us anyway IMO. It will be a transition year. After this Koivu and Blake will finally be gone and young guys like Holland, Palmieri, etc. can step up. I suspect them to need a full season to adjust to the game. We may miss the playoffs that year, but the year following we will be back in the mix.

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10-02-2011, 12:50 AM
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We need Fowler and Sbisa to mature and get better. Beauch to step it up big time. Plus another good defensive Defenseman. Thx for trading Gardiner away BM, that really helped. NOT.

Then: A 2nd Line Center. I like Koivu but he isn't good enough for this position anymore. Our 2nd line needs to be re-juvinated. Get a good 2nd Line Center, let Cogs and Teemu play wing and we have a go here.

This year won't be a good year for us anyway IMO. It will be a transition year. After this Koivu and Blake will finally be gone and young guys like Holland, Palmieri, etc. can step up. I suspect them to need a full season to adjust to the game. We may miss the playoffs that year, but the year following we will be back in the mix.
We don't trade Gardiner then we don't get Beauchemin, and then still have a huge hole in defence, I would say trading Gardiner helped the team by making them better now, not in 2 years. Even though he's a good prospect we can't wait 2 years longer for him to pan out when we had a massive hole in our defence.

Other then that I agree with the 2nd line, likes of Holland, Palmieri can step up, it would be amazing if Teemu stuck around another year to play on the 2nd line with those guys.

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10-02-2011, 12:52 AM
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They may be up sooner than you think, imo. Who knows, if they do well, Koivu and Blake may be lower on the depth chart by the end of the season.

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10-02-2011, 12:59 AM
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They may be up sooner than you think, imo. Who knows, if they do well, Koivu and Blake may be lower on the depth chart by the end of the season.
If those guys come up then Koivu and Blake get bumped down what do you expect to happen to the current third line?

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