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Old
08-19-2011, 11:24 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Bert Corbeau View Post
Kessel has scored 30 goals in both seasons as a Leaf...playing with who again? Might wanna re-think your argument Braaahhh
Kessel had chances to play with better linemates and consistently failed to produce with them. He was hurting the team when they paired him with the teams 2 best forwards last year. That's on him.

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08-19-2011, 11:40 PM
  #127
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lol no

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Old
08-20-2011, 12:01 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Kessel had chances to play with better linemates and consistently failed to produce with them. He was hurting the team when they paired him with the teams 2 best forwards last year. That's on him.
30 goals = failed to produce.

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08-20-2011, 07:09 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Kessel had chances to play with better linemates and consistently failed to produce with them. He was hurting the team when they paired him with the teams 2 best forwards last year. That's on him.
Maybe wait til your sober to post next time?

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Old
08-20-2011, 09:16 AM
  #130
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[QUOTE=UniverStalinGraduate;36065099]Kessel had chances to play with better linemates and consistently failed to produce with them. He was hurting the team when they paired him with the teams 2 best forwards last year. That's on him.[/QUOTE]

Kessel produced as well or better playing with the likes of Bozak and Boyce than he did playing with Savard....so ya....thats on him.

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08-20-2011, 09:37 AM
  #131
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rofl. how is the phaneuf trade still producing these arguments? both flames and leafs fans need to go outside and get some sense of security and stop getting trolled into writing essays

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08-20-2011, 09:44 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Sorry...allow me to rephrase...he ain't there no mo'. Nothing bad was said about Dion pre trade was my point.
Just because you weren't aware of what was being said, doesn't mean that nothing was. Here's 2 examples for you:

http://thenhlarena.com/topic/115943-phaneuf-rumors/
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/...urn=nhl-203680

Not to mention the fact that Keenan later confirmed that the locker-room issues were all true:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=345780

Myself, I think that Phaneuf wanted to be "the guy" to lead the team, and clashed with the established leadership group. Now that he has his own team to lead, he seems to be doing much better. Still, it doesn't change the fact that Flames fans are happy to be rid of him (though most will admit it would have been nice to get a better return) and Leafs fans are happy to have him. Win win.

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Old
08-20-2011, 10:04 AM
  #133
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No for the Flames and i doubt Leafs want to part away Reimer

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08-20-2011, 10:06 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Kippers win totals are more often a result of playing a lot of games more so than being an excellent goaltender at this point.

Given the salary difference between Reimer and Kipper chances are the LEafs wouldn't swap the two straight up, forget the 1st Rounder as well
No. Playing a lot of games doesn't equate to a lot of wins.

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08-20-2011, 10:12 AM
  #135
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If the Flames werent in this delusion that they are still a good team they would make trades along this line getting Prospects and picks for their stars. They could be probably as good as they are now only a lot younger in about 3 years if they played their cards right. Kipper and Iginla could get legitimate good return. They have assets to tweak and do a minor rebuild instead of tearing down the whole ship. But they live in fantasy land so it will never happen.

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08-20-2011, 10:32 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
If the Flames werent in this delusion that they are still a good team they would make trades along this line getting Prospects and picks for their stars. They could be probably as good as they are now only a lot younger in about 3 years if they played their cards right. Kipper and Iginla could get legitimate good return. They have assets to tweak and do a minor rebuild instead of tearing down the whole ship. But they live in fantasy land so it will never happen.
And if people would actually do some research about a team before commenting on their issues, then perhaps they'd realize that now isn't the time for the Flames to rebuild. With something like $22 million in salary coming off the books for next year, it's fairly obvious that significant changes are ahead, just not yet.

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08-20-2011, 10:56 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
If the Flames werent in this delusion that they are still a good team they would make trades along this line getting Prospects and picks for their stars. They could be probably as good as they are now only a lot younger in about 3 years if they played their cards right. Kipper and Iginla could get legitimate good return. They have assets to tweak and do a minor rebuild instead of tearing down the whole ship. But they live in fantasy land so it will never happen.
Lol learn something outside NHL 11 and we'll talk.

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Old
08-20-2011, 11:39 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
30 goals = failed to produce.
No, he failed to produce with the better linemates when given the chance to play with them.

His linemates he played with were on him. If he could have put up good numbers and played well with better players he would have been.

As an aside, how many more goals did he have than a negative rating

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08-20-2011, 11:51 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
No, he failed to produce with the better linemates when given the chance to play with them.

His linemates he played with were on him. If he could have put up good numbers and played well with better players he would have been.

As an aside, how many more goals did he have than a negative rating
You lost me man.

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08-20-2011, 11:56 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by HockeyFanSince86 View Post
You lost me man.
Why?

Kessel had chances to play with better linemates, and he was dragging them down so they put him with lesser players.

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08-20-2011, 12:02 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Why?

Kessel had chances to play with better linemates, and he was dragging them down so they put him with lesser players.
your sentence structure was brutal. This I can understand though, and you couldn't be more wrong .

Kessel was bringing better players down or was he bringing lesser players up ? when players don't have chemistry you break them up, they play with other players and in the end we had two scoring lines instead of one.

The only player Kessel did not mesh well with was Grabovski and that is only because both like to be fed the puck instead of setting it up.

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08-20-2011, 12:04 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by HockeyFanSince86 View Post
your sentence structure was brutal. This I can understand though, and you couldn't be more wrong .

Kessel was bringing better players down or was he bringing lesser players up ? when players don't have chemistry you break them up, they play with other players and in the end we had two scoring lines instead of one.

The only player Kessel did not mesh well with was Grabovski and that is only because both like to be fed the puck instead of setting it up.
Hahaha

Thanks for the English lesson sport. My sentence structure wasn't brutal at all though, maybe your reading comprehension sucks or something.

The point is, that the Leafs felt they had a better team when Kessel was playing with the linemates he played with, and if he was playing with better linemates he was dragging the team down.

The linemates excuse is just another in a long line of excuses leafs fans make for why their team "underachieves"

Oh and in the end they had 2 scoring options because Lupul came to the team. Had nothing to do with anything Kessel did. So is Lupul more important than Kessel?

LoL! Guess so!

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08-20-2011, 12:24 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Hahaha

Thanks for the English lesson sport. My sentence structure wasn't brutal at all though, maybe your reading comprehension sucks or something.

The point is, that the Leafs felt they had a better team when Kessel was playing with the linemates he played with, and if he was playing with better linemates he was dragging the team down.

The linemates excuse is just another in a long line of excuses leafs fans make for why their team "underachieves"

Oh and in the end they had 2 scoring options because Lupul came to the team. Had nothing to do with anything Kessel did. So is Lupul more important than Kessel?

LoL! Guess so!
ok sport!

Whatever you want to think. If you don't think line mates that have chemistry plays a factor, you can't be talked to logically. I wouldn't say 32 goals is underachieving either. I already told you the only team member that has not worked with Kessel was Grabovski, because they play a similar style and neither likes going into the corners, both like being the go to guy. The line was tried, it did not work and was split up. The only option left was to stick Kessel with AHL caliber players that would do the dirty work in the corners.

To your little Lupul bash, yeah he is valuable. He worked out better then Joey Crabb that is for sure. Lupul has great vision and is not afraid to work the corners to feed Kessel, unfortunately we got him late in the season and only saw a glimpse of what they can do together. He did make a second scoring threat on that line, took attention away from Kessel to get open. Worked out well for both of them. Gave us two legit scoring lines down the stretch and going into this season it looks even better with Connolly and Lombardi.

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Old
08-20-2011, 12:38 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Hahaha

Thanks for the English lesson sport. My sentence structure wasn't brutal at all though, maybe your reading comprehension sucks or something.
The sentence itself didn't make any sense whatsoever.

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08-20-2011, 12:45 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Rich0591 View Post
The sentence itself didn't make any sense whatsoever.

His linemates he played with were on him. It's on him the linemates he was playing with, get it?

If he could have put up good numbers and played well with better players he would have been.
If he could have been putting up good numbers with the better players on the team he would have been playing with them, he couldn't and didn't. So they had to use him with weaker players because he was hurting the team when playing with their other top forwards.

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08-20-2011, 12:48 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by HockeyFanSince86 View Post
ok sport!

Whatever you want to think. If you don't think line mates that have chemistry plays a factor, you can't be talked to logically. I wouldn't say 32 goals is underachieving either. I already told you the only team member that has not worked with Kessel was Grabovski, because they play a similar style and neither likes going into the corners, both like being the go to guy. The line was tried, it did not work and was split up. The only option left was to stick Kessel with AHL caliber players that would do the dirty work in the corners.

To your little Lupul bash, yeah he is valuable. He worked out better then Joey Crabb that is for sure. Lupul has great vision and is not afraid to work the corners to feed Kessel, unfortunately we got him late in the season and only saw a glimpse of what they can do together. He did make a second scoring threat on that line, took attention away from Kessel to get open. Worked out well for both of them. Gave us two legit scoring lines down the stretch and going into this season it looks even better with Connolly and Lombardi.
Where did I bash Lupul? I was asking if he was more valuable than Kessel? Is he?

Not discounting chemistry at all, but truly good players FIND chemistry with other good players. Grabovski definitely has no problem going into the corners, that's one of the things that impresses me most about him. A line with a big power forward like Kulemin and then Grabs and Kessel should be dynamite, 3 very fast guys. One guy wihtl ots of size. 2 guys who have no problem going into the corners, a great sniper. But it didn't work. And evidently the leafs thought that was Kessels fault.

Also, Kessel scored 32 goals, but he also finished -20 and didn't make linemates better and really (especially when you cosnider the previous season he missed time and came into the season without training camp) didn't improve at all from the previous season.

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08-20-2011, 01:10 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Where did I bash Lupul? I was asking if he was more valuable than Kessel? Is he?

Not discounting chemistry at all, but truly good players FIND chemistry with other good players. Grabovski definitely has no problem going into the corners, that's one of the things that impresses me most about him. A line with a big power forward like Kulemin and then Grabs and Kessel should be dynamite, 3 very fast guys. One guy wihtl ots of size. 2 guys who have no problem going into the corners, a great sniper. But it didn't work. And evidently the leafs thought that was Kessels fault.

Also, Kessel scored 32 goals, but he also finished -20 and didn't make linemates better and really (especially when you cosnider the previous season he missed time and came into the season without training camp) didn't improve at all from the previous season.
No, Lupul is not more valuable then Kessel. He is a good addition for a talented winger but can be replaced. Kessel at his age and skill can not be replaced as easily.

A line of Kulemin-Grabovski-Kessel, where is the playmaker ? Grabovski and Kessel can both work the corners but it is not a preference for them. Both like to shoot the puck and both like to be the one receiving the passes instead of setting them up. You would be taking two guys out of there comfort zone to do something that does not come naturally to either. Both can make pretty plays but that is not there best skill.

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel Line from last year, has Lupul as a small PWF/playmaker/sniper he can do anything we ask from him, Bozak as a playmaker and Kessel as a sniper.

Kulemin-Grabovski-MacArthur Is a PWF-Sniper-Playmaker line. Two players retrieve the puck and one waits for the pass.


This year our top line got better with Connolly, he is a true playmaker and has good hands. Definite upgrade on Bozak, and if he does not work out we also have Lombardi we could give a try to.

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08-20-2011, 01:12 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by HockeyFanSince86 View Post
No, Lupul is not more valuable then Kessel. He is a good addition for a talented winger but can be replaced. Kessel at his age and skill can not be replaced as easily.

A line of Kulemin-Grabovski-Kessel, where is the playmaker ? Grabovski and Kessel can both work the corners but it is not a preference for them. Both like to shoot the puck and both like to be the one receiving the passes instead of setting them up. You would be taking two guy out of there comfort zone to do something that does not come naturally to either. Both can make pretty plays but that is not there best skill.

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel Line from last year, has Lupul as a small PWF/playmaker/sniper he can do anything we ask from him, Bozak as a playmaker and Kessel as a sniper.

Kulemin-Grabovski-MacArthur Is a PWF-Sniper-Playmaker line. Two players retrieve the puck and one waits for the pass.


This year our top line got better with Connolly, he is a true playmaker and has good hands. Definite upgrade on Bozak, and if he does not work out we also have Lombardi we could give a try to.
At no point in Grabovskis career has he had more goals than assists...but yes, he's not a playmaker he's a GOAL SCORER!

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08-20-2011, 01:27 PM
  #149
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At no point in Grabovskis career has he had more goals than assists...but yes, he's not a playmaker he's a GOAL SCORER!
Funny, especially considering he had 29 goals and 29 assists last year. Last year also being the first year he was used in the sniper role. Hmmmm point production went up when he was giving the chance to excel with what he is best at.

Grabovski- 81 GP 29 G 29 A
Kulemin- 82 GP 30 G 27 A
MacArthur- 82 GP 21 G 41 A

Looks like Mac knew his role was to feed Grabovski and Kulemin, but I guess in your mind a sniper should never have any assists.

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08-20-2011, 01:30 PM
  #150
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Just because you weren't aware of what was being said, doesn't mean that nothing was. Here's 2 examples for you:

http://thenhlarena.com/topic/115943-phaneuf-rumors/
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/...urn=nhl-203680

Not to mention the fact that Keenan later confirmed that the locker-room issues were all true:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=345780

Myself, I think that Phaneuf wanted to be "the guy" to lead the team, and clashed with the established leadership group. Now that he has his own team to lead, he seems to be doing much better. Still, it doesn't change the fact that Flames fans are happy to be rid of him (though most will admit it would have been nice to get a better return) and Leafs fans are happy to have him. Win win.
I thank you for the info and i stand corrected. It does seem strange to me though, that other than his contract, the Flames seemed to cut him loose for showing passion and anger about losing. Thankfully, that "cocky" Dion hasn't reared it's head here. I would hope he keeps the vocal edge while here, makes him a good captain in my eyes.

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