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Old
08-19-2011, 04:22 PM
  #51
Crazy8oooo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Well we might as well make it interesting:

To CHI:
Getzlaf
Perry
Sharp
Keith

To ANA:
Toews
Keith
Sharp
Visnovsky
that makes it really interesting considering the Ducks can't trade players they don't have.

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08-19-2011, 04:22 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
I know your comparison was to Kane, but the proposal in a whole includes Toews, and you're point was that Perry has never been a ppg player up until last season, which means you would then have to devalue Toews as well, if that's the argument. Either way, it seems that neither fan base as a whole likes the offer. We'll keep ours and you'll keep yours and we'll all be happy.
Toews has accomplished much more at a younger age. Thats a big factor you're forgetting.

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08-19-2011, 04:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Toews has accomplished much more at a younger age. Thats a big factor you're forgetting.
Well, what exactly does 'much more' consist of?

What you need to keep in mind is that Perry wasn't relied upon and given big minutes over his first few years, while Toews was immediately given big minutes, because of team needs. The Ducks were a deeper team and Perry had to move up the pecking order, whereas, the Hawks needed Toews to jump right in. Perry's first couple of seasons included 12 minutes a game against Toews 18 minutes a game. Big difference. Once Perry was given equal minutes, he's done everything if not more than Toews has. Excluding Perry's big season, he's still just under a ppg player, which is exactly what Toews is at this point. Can Toews go higher? Sure...but that remains to be seen. Can Perry? He's already proven he can. That's the difference.

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Old
08-19-2011, 05:09 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
I wasn't comparing Perry to Toews, I was comparing him to Kane. Either way, including this year both Kane and Toews have had a better point to game ratio than Perry. I used Cheechoo as an example of how one year can be the exception. I am not saying Perry will fall of the map and be a bad player, what I am saying is that I do not believe he is worth more to the Hawks than either Kane or Toews.

Edit: And just to nitpick for fun, Toews is a ppg player in the playoffs.
You are intellectually honest enough to admit that Kane/Toews coming in to a garbage team and immediately getting top ice time vs Getzlaf/Perry being brought along slowly on a team with multiple All Stars has something to do with the career PPG ratios, yes?

Since Toews came into the league PPG (as in, since all players have been on the top line) - Getzlaf 1.09, Perry 0.96, Toews 0.88, Kane 0.96. Over that span Perry, Getzlaf, and Kane have also been over PPG producers in the playoffs.

A light seemed to go on in Perry's head about halfway through the season about how to play and act as a professional and his game changed for the better, it will be interesting to see if he maintains that level. I will personally take the Ducks duo right now because I prefer their play style and I think right now they are capable of dominating teams alone, obviously that's homering. I don't think the Ducks make the playoffs if we switch players and I think the 'Hawks would have made it to the WCF at a minimum with Getzlaf and Perry with their second line and defensive depth. With Chicago's system I can see preferring Toews/Kane though. Hard to argue either pair.

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08-19-2011, 05:16 PM
  #55
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Personally I see this as and keep

Toews > Getzlaf - Toewes is better defensively and has less of an injury history, he seems more of a leader, but will never produce as good as Getzlaf offensively. Getzlaf is prone to take plays off (especially this year) and is very lazy on the backcheck, takes horrible chances with cross ice passes in the defensive zone. Still I put him as a top 5-10 center in the league.

Perry >> Kane - I don't think its very close. Perry does everything except play center/take faceoffs. He scores from every where and just is a gigantic pest. Now that he has stopped taking stupid penalties, he game is on a different level.

So I give the advantage to the ducks. Having said that Kane + Toews are amazing and every team in the league drools at that pairing.

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08-19-2011, 05:31 PM
  #56
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Getzlaf has been over a PPG player since the 2007-2008 season, and has put up over 90 points. I have a hard time ranking him below Toews, who still hasn't hit 80 points. Maybe that's just me.

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08-19-2011, 06:18 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Since Toews came into the league PPG (as in, since all players have been on the top line) - Getzlaf 1.09, Perry 0.96, Toews 0.88, Kane 0.96. Over that span Perry, Getzlaf, and Kane have also been over PPG producers in the playoffs.
Playoffs since 2007 (when Toews came into the league):
Toews - 46 gp 46 pts = 1 ppg
Kane - 45 gp 48 pts = Over 1 ppg
Getzlaf - 46 gp 46 pts = 1 ppg
Perry - 43 gp 40 pts = Under 1 ppg
Not sure what your talking about here.

Regular Season since 2007:
Toews - 302 gp 267 pts =.88
Kane - 317 gp 303 pts = .96
Getlaf - 291 gp 318 pts = 1.09
Perry - 312 gp 300 pts = .96
This part you got right.

Toews and Kane = 218 goals + 352 assists, combined +- 86
Getzlaf and Perry = 225 goals + 393 assits, combined +- 86

Awards and accolades:
Toews - Voted best skater in the Olypics. Conn Smythe. Stanley Cup Champion. Youngest member of the triple gold club.
Kane - Calder trophy winner. Stanley cup champion.
Getlzaf - Stanley Cup champion.
Perry - Richard winner. Hart winner. Stanley cup champion.

There is no disputing that they are all great players. But to honestly say that Kane and Toews being 3 years younger and with their respective resumes are not, in the grand scheme of things (read as their total worth to the Hawks over the rest of their careers) worth more than Perry and Getzlaf seems awfully short sighted. Those two have accomplished together as much as Perry and Getzlaf have.

And before any Ducks fans reply to this ask yourself these questions:
1- If this trade were being proposed last year after the Hawks had just won the cup and before Perry 50 goal season, would you have taken it?
2- If Perry doesn't put up another year of 40+ goals and over a point ppg production would you still place him over Kane or Toews?
3- Getzlaf has missed significant time in both of the last two years. If the situation was reversed and you were trading a younger comparable player for a slightly older player who has had a problem with injuries recently. would you honestly do it?

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Old
08-19-2011, 06:24 PM
  #58
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I think I'd rather have Getzlaf and Perry than Kane and Toews. The latter two still have some growing room, sure, but I'd rather have the performance of the former two now.

Obviously both of these duos are phenomenal, however.

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08-19-2011, 06:28 PM
  #59
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Getzlaf's injuries were both flukes. He's not a walking band-aid. I would definitely not make that trade, as I don't believe Toews will ever reach Getzlaf's offensive level.

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Old
08-19-2011, 06:53 PM
  #60
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I love how people keep bringing up playoff numbers.

Toews and Kane have only reached, or exceeded, the PPG mark once in three playoff appearances, and in every appearance they were on Chicago's top line.

Getzlaf and Perry have been to the playoffs five times. Three times as 1st line players. In the three appearances they were 1st line players only Getzlaf, one time, failed to reach the PPG mark. And, in one of those times they weren't Anaheim's 1st line players, they still lead the team in points.

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Old
08-19-2011, 06:53 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
Playoffs since 2007 (when Toews came into the league):
Toews - 46 gp 46 pts = 1 ppg
Kane - 45 gp 48 pts = Over 1 ppg
Getzlaf - 46 gp 46 pts = 1 ppg
Perry - 43 gp 40 pts = Under 1 ppg
Not sure what your talking about here.

Regular Season since 2007:
Toews - 302 gp 267 pts =.88
Kane - 317 gp 303 pts = .96
Getlaf - 291 gp 318 pts = 1.09
Perry - 312 gp 300 pts = .96
This part you got right.

Toews and Kane = 218 goals + 352 assists, combined +- 86
Getzlaf and Perry = 225 goals + 393 assits, combined +- 86

Awards and accolades:
Toews - Voted best skater in the Olypics. Conn Smythe. Stanley Cup Champion. Youngest member of the triple gold club.
Kane - Calder trophy winner. Stanley cup champion.
Getlzaf - Stanley Cup champion.
Perry - Richard winner. Hart winner. Stanley cup champion.

There is no disputing that they are all great players. But to honestly say that Kane and Toews being 3 years younger and with their respective resumes are not, in the grand scheme of things (read as their total worth to the Hawks over the rest of their careers) worth more than Perry and Getzlaf seems awfully short sighted. Those two have accomplished together as much as Perry and Getzlaf have.

And before any Ducks fans reply to this ask yourself these questions:
1- If this trade were being proposed last year after the Hawks had just won the cup and before Perry 50 goal season, would you have taken it?
2- If Perry doesn't put up another year of 40+ goals and over a point ppg production would you still place him over Kane or Toews?
3- Getzlaf has missed significant time in both of the last two years. If the situation was reversed and you were trading a younger comparable player for a slightly older player who has had a problem with injuries recently. would you honestly do it?
Toews' first NHL stats are from 2007-08. You don't get to use the Ducks stats from 2006-7 sorry. Check the dates before you make remarks about someone getting things right.

Getzlaf
2007-08 2G 3A 5P (6 games)
2008-09 4G 4A 18P (13 games)
2009-10 DNP
2010-11 2G 4A 6P (6 games)
29P in 25 games = 1.16 PPG

Perry
2007-08 2G 1A 3P (3 games)
2008-09 8G 6A 14P (13 games)
2009-10 DNP
2010-11 2G 6A 8P (6 games)
25P in 22 games = 1.14PPG

Toews - 46 gp 46 pts = 1.00 PPG
Kane - 45 gp 48 pts = 1.07PPG

In answer to your questions
1) Not a chance after seeing what those two did in the playoffs the previous year shutting down the Sharks and then taking Wings to 7. Getzlaf isn't as much worse than Toews defensively as Toews is worse than Getzlaf offensively, and I prefer Perry's game to Kane's.
2) If all 3 stay the same? Perry is over Kane regardless because he plays a more complete game and Kane appears to be a 70-75P player with a 1 year outlier. Their goal scoring with 1st line minutes Perry scores more as well. IF he regresses to under PPG (which won't happen if he hits 40) then you'd probably give the nod to the center. But neither team makes that trade.
3) Hopefully Dustin Brown won't leap on to Getzlaf's ankle from behind this year and hopefully he won't have the puck break his forehead through the visor he now wears, so....yeah, Getzlaf AINEC. You do realize that its 302 to 291 in regular season games the last 4 years, right?

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Old
08-19-2011, 06:59 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
And before any Ducks fans reply to this ask yourself these questions:
1- If this trade were being proposed last year after the Hawks had just won the cup and before Perry 50 goal season, would you have taken it?
2- If Perry doesn't put up another year of 40+ goals and over a point ppg production would you still place him over Kane or Toews?
3- Getzlaf has missed significant time in both of the last two years. If the situation was reversed and you were trading a younger comparable player for a slightly older player who has had a problem with injuries recently. would you honestly do it?
1. Absolutely not. Getzlaf and Perry were the better duo then, as they are now.

2. How can this question be answered? Does Perry never hit 40 goals, or a PPG again? Or just next season? And who are we comparing this season to? What Kane and Toews have accomplished, or what you think they will accomplish?

3. A problem with injuries? He's not injury prone. They were flukes. The answer is yes. Getzlaf is only a little older, but he's the better player. Easy answer. Give me the best player. Getzlaf was one of Canada's best forwards in the Olympics on one foot.

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08-19-2011, 07:00 PM
  #63
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Son of a... beaten again.

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08-19-2011, 07:22 PM
  #64
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As an outsider, I dread when my team plays Getzlaf and Perry. While Toews and Kane are great, the Ducks' combo adds that physicality that's hard to stop.

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08-19-2011, 08:01 PM
  #65
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Son of a... beaten again.
You got me on the other thread though. I think the best solution to keep your reputation as most knowledgeable Ducks poster (actually not BSing you) is for you to give me your iPad (BSing you and hoping you don't notice.....)


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08-19-2011, 08:03 PM
  #66
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1) Not a chance after seeing what those two did in the playoffs the previous year shutting down the Sharks and then taking Wings to 7. Getzlaf isn't as much worse than Toews defensively as Toews is worse than Getzlaf offensively, and I prefer Perry's game to Kane's.
2) If all 3 stay the same? Perry is over Kane regardless because he plays a more complete game and Kane appears to be a 70-75P player with a 1 year outlier. Their goal scoring with 1st line minutes Perry scores more as well. IF he regresses to under PPG (which won't happen if he hits 40) then you'd probably give the nod to the center. But neither team makes that trade.
3) Hopefully Dustin Brown won't leap on to Getzlaf's ankle from behind this year and hopefully he won't have the puck break his forehead through the visor he now wears, so....yeah, Getzlaf AINEC. You do realize that its 302 to 291 in regular season games the last 4 years, right?
Wait a second there. Kane is a 70 point player with a one year outlier, but Perry is the real thing? Kane has scored at a ppg pace 2 years in a row and Perry only did it once last year. How does that make any sense what so ever?

And you all seem to really underestimate Kane's ability in his own end. He is by no means a dominant defender, but he isn't a liability. And I find it funny that you are praising Perry for his defensive skills when he was on the ice for 92 goals against last year at even strength. And the Ducks only let in 13 more goals than the Hawks did last year.

And in reference to Toews being worse than Getzlaf offensively and not being able to make that up defensively. Getzlaf won 45% of his faceoffs and had 2.3 turnovers for every take away. Toews won 56% of his faceoffs and had 3.1 takeaways for every turnover. Getzlaf is a combined +55 over the last 4 years, compared to Toews who is a combined +70. So despite the fact that Geztlaf scored more than Toews, he also had more goals go in against him.

Offensively Getzlaf is better than Kane or Toews, but not by much for Kane. Kane is more consistent than Perry. And Toews is hands down the best two-way player of the bunch.

And yet again I remind you that statistically players in the NHL peak between the ages of 26-30. So while Geztlaf and Perry may be entering their primes right now and be worth more in the short term, Kane and Toews are barely behind them offensively and still have 3 more years before they reach their "primes".

And by the way my bad on not paying attention to the years for the playoffs. I just looked at the last 4 years listed and didn't look at the dates.

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08-19-2011, 08:29 PM
  #67
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Wait a second there. Kane is a 70 point player with a one year outlier, but Perry is the real thing? Kane has scored at a ppg pace 2 years in a row and Perry only did it once last year. How does that make any sense what so ever?

And you all seem to really underestimate Kane's ability in his own end. He is by no means a dominant defender, but he isn't a liability. And I find it funny that you are praising Perry for his defensive skills when he was on the ice for 92 goals against last year at even strength. And the Ducks only let in 13 more goals than the Hawks did last year.

And in reference to Toews being worse than Getzlaf offensively and not being able to make that up defensively. Getzlaf won 45% of his faceoffs and had 2.3 turnovers for every take away. Toews won 56% of his faceoffs and had 3.1 takeaways for every turnover. Getzlaf is a combined +55 over the last 4 years, compared to Toews who is a combined +70. So despite the fact that Geztlaf scored more than Toews, he also had more goals go in against him.

Offensively Getzlaf is better than Kane or Toews, but not by much for Kane. Kane is more consistent than Perry. And Toews is hands down the best two-way player of the bunch.

And yet again I remind you that statistically players in the NHL peak between the ages of 26-30. So while Geztlaf and Perry may be entering their primes right now and be worth more in the short term, Kane and Toews are barely behind them offensively and still have 3 more years before they reach their "primes".

And by the way my bad on not paying attention to the years for the playoffs. I just looked at the last 4 years listed and didn't look at the dates.
Watch Perry on the PK some time. Let me know when I should do the same for Kane.

We watched Getzlaf and Perry dismantle a San Jose President's Cup winner with no significant help from any other line, then nearly steal a series from the Wings (and in the process probably beat them up so badly the Penguins won). You asked, we prefer them.

Yes, Toews is better defensively. However, Getzlaf plays center for the Ducks only shutdown line and those turnover numbers are skewed by his penchant for making idiotic no look passes, not because he can't play defense. Giveaways and takeaways are also a home cooked stat, not anything that's firmly defined. And Getz sucks at faceoffs, no argument. The thing is, he's a LOT more likely to do something positive with the ones he wins than Toews is. And I feel that more than makes up the difference. You are allowed to disagree.

Kane's point totals - 72, 70, 88, 73.
Perry's point totals - 25, 44, 54, 72, 76, 98
Kane's goal totals - 21, 25, 30, 27
Perry's goal totals - 13, 17, 29, 32, 27, 50

Perry's points went up every year of his career, Kane's are static with a 1 year outlier. Perry's goal totals have been better even without this year's outlier since both players have been getting first line minutes. (and no, I don't expect him to repeat 50 next year but 40 could happen if his play style remains changed the way it was) I've seen Perry pick up the team and carry them without Getzlaf. I haven't seen that out of Kane WITH Toews.

I prefer having 2/3 of the top line in hockey, not the POTENTIAL to have the 2 guys who might be that line in 3 years IF they keep progressing. I'm certainly not going to fault you for liking those two though.

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08-19-2011, 08:54 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Watch Perry on the PK some time. Let me know when I should do the same for Kane.

We watched Getzlaf and Perry dismantle a San Jose President's Cup winner with no significant help from any other line, then nearly steal a series from the Wings (and in the process probably beat them up so badly the Penguins won). You asked, we prefer them.

Yes, Toews is better defensively. However, Getzlaf plays center for the Ducks only shutdown line and those turnover numbers are skewed by his penchant for making idiotic no look passes, not because he can't play defense. Giveaways and takeaways are also a home cooked stat, not anything that's firmly defined. And Getz sucks at faceoffs, no argument. The thing is, he's a LOT more likely to do something positive with the ones he wins than Toews is. And I feel that more than makes up the difference. You are allowed to disagree.

Kane's point totals - 72, 70, 88, 73.
Perry's point totals - 25, 44, 54, 72, 76, 98
Kane's goal totals - 21, 25, 30, 27
Perry's goal totals - 13, 17, 29, 32, 27, 50

Perry's points went up every year of his career, Kane's are static with a 1 year outlier. Perry's goal totals have been better even without this year's outlier since both players have been getting first line minutes. (and no, I don't expect him to repeat 50 next year but 40 could happen if his play style remains changed the way it was) I've seen Perry pick up the team and carry them without Getzlaf. I haven't seen that out of Kane WITH Toews.

I prefer having 2/3 of the top line in hockey, not the POTENTIAL to have the 2 guys who might be that line in 3 years IF they keep progressing. I'm certainly not going to fault you for liking those two though.
So your basing your argument for Perry being a much better two-way player solely on the fact that he got PK minutes? Than I guess Getzlaf must be horrible defensively too because he only played 28 seconds per game short handed. Basing two-way play solely on PK mins is just not a good argument. Plus you failed to address my point that Perry was on the ice for 92 goals against at EVEN strength. Despite his entire team giving up just 13 more goals total.

And your basing Kane's ceiling on the fact that that this year he scored a point per game in the 73 games he played? Forget the fact that it was the second time in his career at a ppg. Or that this was on a team with a short summer, massive roster overhaul, and a defense that at the beginning of the year had Jassen Cullimore and John Scott getting playing time? This year was a down year as a team.

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08-19-2011, 09:03 PM
  #69
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So your basing your argument for Perry being a much better two-way player solely on the fact that he got PK minutes? Than I guess Getzlaf must be horrible defensively too because he only played 28 seconds per game short handed. Basing two-way play solely on PK mins is just not a good argument. Plus you failed to address my point that Perry was on the ice for 92 goals against at EVEN strength. Despite his entire team giving up just 13 more goals total.

And your basing Kane's ceiling on the fact that that this year he scored a point per game in the 73 games he played? Forget the fact that it was the second time in his career at a ppg. Or that this was on a team with a short summer, massive roster overhaul, and a defense that at the beginning of the year had Jassen Cullimore and John Scott getting playing time? This year was a down year as a team.
No, I'm basing it on the fact that the games I've seen, Kane isn't a liability but he's not a dominant force like Perry is. I've seen Perry singlehandedly hold the puck in the offensive zone for 30 seconds on a PK. Kane can't do that. Kane isn't used as the team's shutdown forward, Perry is.

I said nothing about Kane's ceiling. I pointed out his career points have, TO THIS POINT, been flat, with a 1 year bump then back to where he'd been, whereas Perry has improved every single year. I also pointed out Perry has been a better goal scorer since Kane has been in the league, even if you discount this year. Kane should certainly improve but until this point he hasn't really done so, so I'll stick with the guy who has as opposed to the guy who started crazy hot and......sorta stayed the same. I never said Kane sucks, I just think Perry is significantly better now.

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08-19-2011, 09:31 PM
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Kane isn't used as the team's shutdown forward, Perry is.
Then how do you explain the fact that he was on the ice for 92 goals against? I like Perry, I think he brings a lot of grit and hard play to the ice, but I haven't seen anything out of him that screams dominant defense. Just to put that number in perspective he was 3rd worst in the league among forwards.

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08-19-2011, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
Then how do you explain the fact that he was on the ice for 92 goals against? I like Perry, I think he brings a lot of grit and hard play to the ice, but I haven't seen anything out of him that screams dominant defense. Just to put that number in perspective he was 3rd worst in the league among forwards.
Because he played ridiculous minutes with the dual responsibilities of top offensive threat and shutdown line with the Ducks defense that was undeniably garbage for over half the year, and also the PK numbers contribute to that? Being on ice for a few McBackup meltdowns didn't help either. Marleau is also considered defensively competent and he led the league in that stat. Duncan Keith had 107 the season after winning the Norris - are you going to bury him in the minors? Kopitar, Kessler, Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Ladd, Dubinsky have all been 80 plus in that stat the last few years. It'll be higher when you're out against players who can score, I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say it's the last word in defensive ability before now. Much like +/- it's a team stat.

The top 3 forwards on that stat were Marleau, E. Staal, and Perry. in TOI this year they were #6, #3, and #1. Draw your own conclusions. If you want to use that stat to make your argument, power to you?

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08-19-2011, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Because he played ridiculous minutes with the dual responsibilities of top offensive threat and shutdown line with the Ducks defense that was undeniably garbage for over half the year, and also the PK numbers contribute to that? Being on ice for a few McBackup meltdowns didn't help either. Marleau is also considered defensively competent and he led the league in that stat. Duncan Keith had 107 the season after winning the Norris - are you going to bury him in the minors? Kopitar, Kessler, Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Ladd, Dubinsky have all been 80 plus in that stat the last few years. It'll be higher when you're out against players who can score, I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say it's the last word in defensive ability before now. Much like +/- it's a team stat.

The top 3 forwards on that stat were Marleau, E. Staal, and Perry. in TOI this year they were #6, #3, and #1. Draw your own conclusions. If you want to use that stat to make your argument, power to you?
I tried using turnovers and takeaways and you said that was biased. Then I went to plus minus and that was biased. And then I go to goals against and that is biased too. Unfortunately hockey is a team game, so yes stats are some what determined by your team. But how can you honsetly argue with all those different stats that Perry is a much better two-way player than Kane?

Did you even watch Kane this year? He plays hard and has a good stick. Does he block alot of shots? No, but he isn't asked to. Does he get alot of hits? No, again not expected to? But he does take the puck away and play a sound game on defense. As I said he is in no way a defensive mastermind, but to suggest to me that Perry is worth more than Kane based on last years offensive production and his defensive play astounds me.

As far as Perry controlling the puck down low and keeping it away from the other team on the pk, Kane doesn't get any PK time to compare directly but I have seen Kane do exactly on multiple occasions 5on5.

And as far as garbage defense goes, see Jordan Hendry, Jassen Cullimore, and John Scott. All of whom played for the Blackhawks on defense this year.

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08-19-2011, 10:36 PM
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08-19-2011, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
I tried using turnovers and takeaways and you said that was biased. Then I went to plus minus and that was biased. And then I go to goals against and that is biased too. Unfortunately hockey is a team game, so yes stats are some what determined by your team. But how can you honsetly argue with all those different stats that Perry is a much better two-way player than Kane?

Did you even watch Kane this year? He plays hard and has a good stick. Does he block alot of shots? No, but he isn't asked to. Does he get alot of hits? No, again not expected to? But he does take the puck away and play a sound game on defense. As I said he is in no way a defensive mastermind, but to suggest to me that Perry is worth more than Kane based on last years offensive production and his defensive play astounds me.

As far as Perry controlling the puck down low and keeping it away from the other team on the pk, Kane doesn't get any PK time to compare directly but I have seen Kane do exactly on multiple occasions 5on5.

And as far as garbage defense goes, see Jordan Hendry, Jassen Cullimore, and John Scott. All of whom played for the Blackhawks on defense this year.
Because scoring 25 more points and 23 more goals than Kane and winning the Hart DOESN'T make him more valuable than Kane? You're not going to find many people outside of Cook County agreeing with you on that one.

Real time stats ARE home cooked. You were talking about Getzlaf with that though. Perry is positive in that stat. And if I recall, I DID say Toews was better defensively, I just feel that Getzlaf is so much better offensively I'd take him instead. Not sure what you're trying to argue? As far as the comparison between them on the goals against it's apples and oranges - have Kane play more minutes and on the shutdown line then it's a fair comparison. You didn't comment about how you feel about Marleau's defensive game, and he was worse than Perry.

If Kane was holding the puck solo along the boards 1v3 for 30 seconds on a 5v5 shift there is something seriously wrong with your coaching staff. Just saying.

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08-19-2011, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Because scoring 25 more points and 23 more goals than Kane and winning the Hart DOESN'T make him more valuable than Kane? You're not going to find many people outside of Cook County agreeing with you on that one.

Real time stats ARE home cooked. You were talking about Getzlaf with that though. Perry is positive in that stat. And if I recall, I DID say Toews was better defensively, I just feel that Getzlaf is so much better offensively I'd take him instead. Not sure what you're trying to argue? As far as the comparison between them on the goals against it's apples and oranges - have Kane play more minutes and on the shutdown line then it's a fair comparison. You didn't comment about how you feel about Marleau's defensive game, and he was worse than Perry.

If Kane was holding the puck solo along the boards 1v3 for 30 seconds on a 5v5 shift there is something seriously wrong with your coaching staff. Just saying.
I find myself going back to Jonathan Cheechoo. Perry scores 18 more goals then his previous high and even with that insane jump in production still, he still just matches Kane in ppg over the last 4 years. There is no guarantee that he will ever return to that level. Kane has shown much more consistency in his career and is still 3 years younger and matching Perry's offensive pace. Not to mention the fact that

And as far as Kane holding the puck solo, the most blatant example I can remember was in the playoffs last year against the Sharks where he held the puck and kept control while his entire line was changing.

If real time stats are home cooked then why aren't Getzlaf's better? Is Anaheim somehow more honest then everyone else? And Perry's stats still don't compare favorably to Kane's, let alone Toews.

And I never said Perry was bad defensively, I said that I can't see how you can honestly say that he is a much better two-way player than Kane.

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