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Old
08-19-2011, 11:21 PM
  #76
Sojourn
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Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
I find myself going back to Jonathan Cheechoo. Perry scores 18 more goals then his previous high and even with that insane jump in production still, he still just matches Kane in ppg over the last 4 years. There is no guarantee that he will ever return to that level. Kane has shown much more consistency in his career and is still 3 years younger and matching Perry's offensive pace. Not to mention the fact that

And as far as Kane holding the puck solo, the most blatant example I can remember was in the playoffs last year against the Sharks where he held the puck and kept control while his entire line was changing.

If real time stats are home cooked then why aren't Getzlaf's better? Is Anaheim somehow more honest then everyone else? And Perry's stats still don't compare favorably to Kane's, let alone Toews.

And I never said Perry was bad defensively, I said that I can't see how you can honestly say that he is a much better two-way player than Kane.
In terms of down low puck possession, I'd take Perry over Kane every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. That's one of the defining traits of the RPG line, sketch. They own you down low.

I don't think you'd be showing off Kane's best attributes if you're focusing on that area of his game. Certainly not compared to a player like Perry, who is bigger, stronger, and has a longer reach. Who do you think is going to do better, given those traits? It would be like me trying to claim Perry is the faster, more agile player. It's just not true.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:31 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
I find myself going back to Jonathan Cheechoo. Perry scores 18 more goals then his previous high and even with that insane jump in production still, he still just matches Kane in ppg over the last 4 years. There is no guarantee that he will ever return to that level. Kane has shown much more consistency in his career and is still 3 years younger and matching Perry's offensive pace. Not to mention the fact that

And as far as Kane holding the puck solo, the most blatant example I can remember was in the playoffs last year against the Sharks where he held the puck and kept control while his entire line was changing.

If real time stats are home cooked then why aren't Getzlaf's better? Is Anaheim somehow more honest then everyone else? And Perry's stats still don't compare favorably to Kane's, let alone Toews.

And I never said Perry was bad defensively, I said that I can't see how you can honestly say that he is a much better two-way player than Kane.
By home cooked I mean each rink has their own standards, not trying to say teams rig them. Well, maybe hits in Minnesota, but that's different

Getzlaf's giveaways suck because he makes a LOT of stupid fancy no look passes. I said so. He gives the puck away a lot.

Perry's last 4 goal totals 29, 32, 27, 50.
Kane's last 4 goal total 21, 25, 30, 27.

Even without this year Perry's best 3 are better than Kane's best 3. And if you look at trends Perry is up every year, Kane is flat with a bump in the middle. Perry is also a more productive playoff performer since being put on the top line than Kane has been. And it seems if you rough Kane up then he floats and gets off his game. Perry just does some pest maneuver and gets a PP. Or a 4v4 The fact that Perry is a top 3 pest in the league also can't be overlooked.

If Perry needs double sports hernia surgery then you have a point bringing up Cheechoo. Until that point, please.

Again, Kane certain has the tools to progress to being a better offensive threat than Perry. But right now he's not as good. I'll keep my production, you keep your potential, everyone is happy.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:34 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
In terms of down low puck possession, I'd take Perry over Kane every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. That's one of the defining traits of the RPG line, sketch. They own you down low.

I don't think you'd be showing off Kane's best attributes if you're focusing on that area of his game. Certainly not compared to a player like Perry, who is bigger, stronger, and has a longer reach. Who do you think is going to do better, given those traits? It would be like me trying to claim Perry is the faster, more agile player. It's just not true.
I agree that Perry is strong player along the boards. I was just replying to a comment the other poster made that Perry can hold the puck down low and keep it away from the D. Kane can to. Did he fight along the boards and power his way thru, no he mostly just out skated the D and kept himself and the puck moving until his support arrived. I never meant to imply he was better at the physical down low game, just that given his skill set he can do roughly the same thine in a different fashion.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:41 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
I agree that Perry is strong player along the boards. I was just replying to a comment the other poster made that Perry can hold the puck down low and keep it away from the D. Kane can to. Did he fight along the boards and power his way thru, no he mostly just out skated the D and kept himself and the puck moving until his support arrived. I never meant to imply he was better at the physical down low game, just that given his skill set he can do roughly the same thine in a different fashion.
Fair enough.

I'm not going to argue who the better player is defensively. I would feel more comfortable with Perry's defense than Kane's, but I'm willing to accept that's just my personal preference.

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Old
08-19-2011, 11:43 PM
  #80
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Ugh, Ducks DVM. Did you really need to bring up those passes by Getzy? I swear, that guy can make you love him and hate him in the same game. He can put together a 5-point game, and you'll still want to smack him for one of those stupid passes.

And by smack him, I mean use a tazer, because he would destroy me. A tazer would give me a nice headstart.

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08-19-2011, 11:47 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Ugh, Ducks DVM. Did you really need to bring up those passes by Getzy? I swear, that guy can make you love him and hate him in the same game. He can put together a 5-point game, and you'll still want to smack him for one of those stupid passes.

And by smack him, I mean use a tazer, because he would destroy me. A tazer would give me a nice headstart.
I am convinced if they go to the clear net bases his goals totals will go up - they just have to get Perry to stand on the other side of the net and Getz will try to pass the puck to him



I will now forever envision you as the fat kid

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08-20-2011, 12:01 AM
  #82
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Oh, that's messed up.

Speaking of the net, it would be nice of Getzy would shoot the puck more. He's got a hell of a shot.

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08-20-2011, 12:15 AM
  #83
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Oh, that's messed up.

Speaking of the net, it would be nice of Getzy would shoot the puck more. He's got a hell of a shot.
Agreed, he should have scored 30-35 at least once by now. That wrist shot against the Sharks in the playoffs was incredible.



Thornton at 1:20 is even better though

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Old
08-20-2011, 12:31 AM
  #84
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I was at that game. How sweet that game felt.

Thanks for the memories, DVM

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Old
08-20-2011, 09:07 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Again, Kane certain has the tools to progress to being a better offensive threat than Perry. But right now he's not as good. I'll keep my production, you keep your potential, everyone is happy.
You mean you'll keep the production that has less points per game than the potential, over their respective careers? Sounds good to me.

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08-20-2011, 03:09 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
You mean you'll keep the production that has less points per game than the potential, over their respective careers? Sounds good to me.
Yes, because each year, every player has their career points added together, then averaged, taking into account the effects of sunspots, el nino, leap years, and Matt Cooke, then those averages are used to calculate how many goals they should have scored in each game to determine the winner of the game, then those numbers are thrown out and the cup is just given to the team who averages the most playoff wins, then those numbers are thrown out because Montreal has won SOOOO many more cups they just cancel the season and schedule a parade in Montreal every year.

No, I'll keep the guy who scored 185% of the goals and 134% of the points the other guy did this year. The word "current" was obviously implied to go along with the word "production.

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08-21-2011, 10:12 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
I find myself going back to Jonathan Cheechoo. Perry scores 18 more goals then his previous high and even with that insane jump in production still, he still just matches Kane in ppg over the last 4 years. There is no guarantee that he will ever return to that level. Kane has shown much more consistency in his career and is still 3 years younger and matching Perry's offensive pace. Not to mention the fact that

And as far as Kane holding the puck solo, the most blatant example I can remember was in the playoffs last year against the Sharks where he held the puck and kept control while his entire line was changing.

If real time stats are home cooked then why aren't Getzlaf's better? Is Anaheim somehow more honest then everyone else? And Perry's stats still don't compare favorably to Kane's, let alone Toews.

And I never said Perry was bad defensively, I said that I can't see how you can honestly say that he is a much better two-way player than Kane.

Im confused by this statement a little bit. Dont you want your young players to show improvement rather than remaining static?

Kane has indeed been consistant with his production, and if he remained that way for his entire career he would still be a great player, but Perry has improved his numbers every season, isnt that what you want your young players to do?

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08-21-2011, 10:49 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
They're not even in their primes yet. I see Kane as a 100 point player for many years and Toews as a PPG+ player who will win multiple Selkes. No disrespect to the great Anaheim players, but I'd rather see how good Toews and Kane get. They already have a Cup and get better every year.
So who are you arguing for there?

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08-21-2011, 02:51 PM
  #89
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no this has no chance of happening but how close is the value?

to Ducks Towes and Kane

to Haws Getzlaf and Perry all these guys are young and they have all won cups and all are keys to their cup winning teams is the value close?
I would have to give the edge to getzlaf and perry.

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08-21-2011, 06:57 PM
  #90
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I'd do it if I where both teams. The players in the trade are all of equal value.
If they are all of equal value why make the trade? It's change for the sake of change and could potentially cause chemistry problems.

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Old
08-21-2011, 07:02 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
It would have to be the whole line of Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry to get us listening. Even then, Hawks say no.
I'd take Ryan, Getzlaf and Perry over Toews and Kane any day of the week.

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08-22-2011, 12:28 AM
  #92
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It would have to be the whole line of Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry to get us listening. Even then, Hawks say no.
RPG > Toews + Kane

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08-22-2011, 01:51 PM
  #93
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RPG > Toews + Kane
Getzlaf + Perry > Toews + Kane

Very close though. However adding Ryan makes it ridiculously lopsided.

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08-22-2011, 02:18 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Yes, because each year, every player has their career points added together, then averaged, taking into account the effects of sunspots, el nino, leap years, and Matt Cooke, then those averages are used to calculate how many goals they should have scored in each game to determine the winner of the game, then those numbers are thrown out and the cup is just given to the team who averages the most playoff wins, then those numbers are thrown out because Montreal has won SOOOO many more cups they just cancel the season and schedule a parade in Montreal every year.

No, I'll keep the guy who scored 185% of the goals and 134% of the points the other guy did this year. The word "current" was obviously implied to go along with the word "production.
That wasn't my point. My point is, you said Perry has the production, while Kane has the potential. But Kane has already shown he can put up big numbers just like Perry and has a better point per game than Perry in his career.

I just don't understand why you used the word potential with Kane, when he has shown he can be just as good of an offensive threat as Perry.

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08-22-2011, 02:23 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I just don't understand why you used the word potential with Kane, when he has shown he can be just as good of an offensive threat as Perry.
Ummm when has he shown that??

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08-22-2011, 02:36 PM
  #96
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This is a very silly thread.

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:53 PM
  #97
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Ummm when has he shown that??
2010
Patrick Kane - 30G 58A 88pts
Corey Perry - 27G 49A 76pts

As recently as last year.

Also, he only finished with 2pts less the year previous, and had more points than Perry the 2 years before that including his rookie season.

I'm not arguing that Kane > Perry, because I have already stated that I think Perry is better. I was just proving a point that Kane can be as good offensively, like I just did to you.

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:58 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
2010
Patrick Kane - 30G 58A 88pts
Corey Perry - 27G 49A 76pts

As recently as last year.
Well, then your statement would have been correct a year ago. Since then, Corey Perry has proven he can score 50 goals, win the Richard and Hart Trophy. Not to take any potential away to match that at some point from Kane, but he hasn't shown that.

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08-22-2011, 05:12 PM
  #99
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Well, then your statement would have been correct a year ago. Since then, Corey Perry has proven he can score 50 goals, win the Richard and Hart Trophy. Not to take any potential away to match that at some point from Kane, but he hasn't shown that.
Sorry, only goal scoring matters? Assists are just as good as goals, and Kane controls Chicago's offense. Kane has shown he has the ability to win a scoring title, by finishing top 10 just a year ago.

Injuries limited him last year as he played with a sprained ankle and he only missed 9 games with that injury, which usually forces guys out for up to 20. I'm not making excuses, because I don't need them. Kane has shown he can be among the best in points, so quit acting like he hasn't.

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08-22-2011, 05:44 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Well, then your statement would have been correct a year ago. Since then, Corey Perry has proven he can score 50 goals, win the Richard and Hart Trophy. Not to take any potential away to match that at some point from Kane, but he hasn't shown that.
Because a player's offensive ability fluctuates drastically from one year to another? Nobody is saying that Kane had a better year than Perry last season, they are just saying that Kane has shown he can be just as good as Perry offensively in previous years. Its not like we are reaching back 5 years in the career of a 34 year old player here. We are looking back to a 22 year old's last injury free season.

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