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From a Kings ("Flyers West") fan's opinion....

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Old
08-30-2011, 02:35 AM
  #1
GoKingsGo25
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From a Kings ("Flyers West") fan's opinion....

i would love to see a Kings vs Flyers Final, i think it would be an amazing final to watch, with two teams full of heart fighting for hockey's holy grail.


that being said, i think its fair to say i might just pull for the flyers in the East this year

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08-30-2011, 02:44 AM
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phlocky
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There ain't no way in hell the Flyers are a cup contender this year, not with as many steps backwards that we took. Maybe in a year or 2 but certainly not this year. I think the Kings actually DO have a realistic chance this year, but not the Flyers. It's sad to say.

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08-30-2011, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
There ain't no way in hell the Flyers are a cup contender this year, not with as many steps backwards that we took. Maybe in a year or 2 but certainly not this year. I think the Kings actually DO have a realistic chance this year, but not the Flyers. It's sad to say.
dont count yourselves out just yet, you have solid goaltending, and your defense looks pretty good to me, and the offense may come around for you guys

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08-30-2011, 02:54 AM
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I'll never understand threads like this.

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08-30-2011, 03:55 AM
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Flyers are as much a contender as they were two years ago IMO

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08-30-2011, 03:59 AM
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phlocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoKingsGo25 View Post
dont count yourselves out just yet, you have solid goaltending, and your defense looks pretty good to me, and the offense may come around for you guys
Pronger is a HUGE question mark this year. Timonen started to show signd of serious decline last year (was VERY evident in the playoffs with Pronger out), and we have nothing in the way of a shut-down line to match up against the likes of Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Stamko and everyone on the freakin Bruins offense, let alone any of the "less scary" teams just in the east that we have to get by. We are trusting a rookie with just 8 games experience in the NHL to go up against and to shut down the opposing teams top offensive threats. That's a recipe for dissaster and it could be very very ugly this year (as in us not even making the playoffs).

Remember, we've changed out 7 of our opening day 20-man roster from a year ago. That's about 35%. In all 4 major sports over the past 20 year (study was up to and including the 08 seasons IIRC) there have only been 2 teams to make the playoffs who changed more than I think 20% or 25% of their opening day roster from one season to the next (the Devils were one and I can't remember whom the other was but I know it wasn't in hockey). We've had too much change to make a serious cup run.

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08-30-2011, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Flyers are as much a contender as they were two years ago IMO
I think so too. Solid Goaltending can change peoples minds about this team i think. If Bryz comes out and is dominant like the $$ says he should be then we should be a dark horse to watch out for. Our team has a definitive leadership now and a youthful core of players that could all very well put it all together this year and bring us to the holy grail.

The biggest teams I fear right now are not even in the Atlantic Division, a Crosbyless Pittsburgh is not on equal footing with this team, a Devils team with no Lemaire and a Brodeur who is a shadow of his former self, a Rangers team who added 1 Center and thinks it will solve all of their scoring woes and Gaboriks unhealthiness, and an inexperienced Islander team with a continuous question mark in net.

Washington and Boston scare me and thats about it.

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08-30-2011, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Pronger is a HUGE question mark this year. Timonen started to show signd of serious decline last year (was VERY evident in the playoffs with Pronger out), and we have nothing in the way of a shut-down line to match up against the likes of Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Stamko and everyone on the freakin Bruins offense, let alone any of the "less scary" teams just in the east that we have to get by. We are trusting a rookie with just 8 games experience in the NHL to go up against and to shut down the opposing teams top offensive threats. That's a recipe for dissaster and it could be very very ugly this year (as in us not even making the playoffs).

Remember, we've changed out 7 of our opening day 20-man roster from a year ago. That's about 35%. In all 4 major sports over the past 20 year (study was up to and including the 08 seasons IIRC) there have only been 2 teams to make the playoffs who changed more than I think 20% or 25% of their opening day roster from one season to the next (the Devils were one and I can't remember whom the other was but I know it wasn't in hockey). We've had too much change to make a serious cup run.
Oh please. Drop the whole doom and gloom act and go sit with the philly media. You say that we have no one to match up against the offensive power threats in the league. You say that like Richards and Carter excelled against them. Crosby and Malkin have what, a 2 ppg average against the flyers? How about Stamkos and Ovechkin scoring on us pretty much every game. I don't have the stats to hand but i bet it's some rediculous number. For as good as Richards and Carter were at backchecking, they hardly slowed those guys down.

I actually think that Schenn will be somewhat protected in his role on the flyers, and the teams bottom line will be used to shut teams down. Betts, Holmstrom, Talbot, Sestito ect.

Also didn't we completly revamp our team after TSTSNBN? We surely had a 20% turnover that year. Hartnell, Briere, Lupul, Smith, Boulerice. Didn't downie come up to play that year too. Jim Dowd played the entire year too. There are 7 players right there. Not including the trades we made during the season.

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08-30-2011, 10:09 AM
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If you think Carter and Richards did a bad job containing the stars of the league, you're really in for a treat this year.

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08-30-2011, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If you think Carter and Richards did a bad job containing the stars of the league, you're really in for a treat this year.
I'm hoping Bryz can do better than they did.

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08-30-2011, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If you think Carter and Richards did a bad job containing the stars of the league, you're really in for a treat this year.
But, but, Ryan "not too" Bright expects Roo to get more points than Richards. He also pointed out on Twitter that Roo out hit Richards last year. Of course he forgot to mention Richards was injured all year.

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08-30-2011, 10:30 AM
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It's not like Crosby, Ovechkin and Stamkos are scrub players, they are the best players in the league. Richards is legitimately a top 5 "two way" forward and Carter brings a lot to the table with his size, faceoff ability, and speed.

Also, being good defensively is not only about backchecking, it is also about relentless forchecking, sound defensive positioning to force turnovers, making the correct first outlet pass, solid hitting and balance, smart stick checking and fast support for team mates in need after being beat.

If you think that the Giroux and Briere lines will be able to hold their own against the likes of the Elite Players in the league without Richards and Carter, then you are off your rocker. Even if those two lines won't be "matched-up" against the Elites for defensive reasons, they will undoubtedly find themselves out there against them at the end of a long shift, especially on the road when they Flyers have the matchup disadvantage.

Even if the Giroux and Briere lines spend 90% of their shift in the offensive zone with fantastic pressure, we have all seen them make multiple critical errors from blind passes to low percentage shots that miss the net to quick pinches to no 3rd man support up top that lead to an odd man rush the other way and a goal for the bad guys.

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08-30-2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
There ain't no way in hell the Flyers are a cup contender this year, not with as many steps backwards that we took. Maybe in a year or 2 but certainly not this year. I think the Kings actually DO have a realistic chance this year, but not the Flyers. It's sad to say.
Flyers will absolutely contend for a cup if healthy.

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08-30-2011, 11:06 AM
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Good as richie is at stopping goals, Bryz will stop more...why you heff to be madz ?

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08-30-2011, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
But, but, Ryan "not too" Bright expects Roo to get more points than Richards. He also pointed out on Twitter that Roo out hit Richards last year. Of course he forgot to mention Richards was injured all year.
like the Philly media there are posters here who never factor in injuries. they play thru injuries and they suck. they sit because of injuries and they have no heart. with certian people around here you cant win.
I really hope Giroux and JVR get off to good starts because we know who is 1 and 2 on the hate list this year if we struggle.
That said I think we could have some issues defensively this year. Pronger and Mez both have offseason issues. i think we will rely on Timonen, Coburn and Carle more then usual until Mez and Pronger get their legs underneath them.
Anyone who thinks this forward group is just as good defensively as past years is wrong IMO.
Obviously in goal we are as strong as we have been in years. Hopefully Bryzgalov is up for the challenge and pressure.

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08-30-2011, 11:32 AM
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Anyone who thinks this forward group is just as good defensively as past years is wrong IMO.
I'm not sure yet, but I'd make a case for it.

We lost Richards, Carter, Leino, Carcillo, Zherdev, and Powe

We've added Jagr, Talbot, Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek, and potentially Holmstrom, Read/Rinaldo/Sestito/Couturier/etc.

Obviously losing Richards is a HUGE hit. Carter and Powe leaving hurt as well. Leino, Zherdev, and Carcillo aren't major loses in my eyes.

Adding Talbot, Schenn, Simmonds, and (hopefully in my lineup) Holmstrom (4C) and Read/Couturier (3rd LW) should get very close to equaling the loss of defensive forward depth to our lineup. And whatever isn't matched...we now have a true #1 goalie behind us to make up the difference.

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08-30-2011, 11:35 AM
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Rookies and young players are rarely good defensively. It generally is an acquired skill.

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08-30-2011, 11:38 AM
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I dont see why people put so much stock into our lineup on paper. If the past few years have proved anything, it's that no matter how good any given team looks on paper, it can not assure success.

Having a neat and tidy formula with two scoring lines, a shutdown line and an energy line can make you preseason favorites, but as we've proven, as the Canucks have proven, as the Caps have proven, etc. that is not all it takes to win.

We lost two very good hockey players. But their actual contribution to our past teams is becoming overstated.

If our team plays to it's potential, I don't see a reason why we can't contend for a Cup. It takes a strong team effort more than it takes talent on paper. Boston is exhibit A that most teams in the league can win a Cup if they can execute when it matters most.

The people crying about not having a shutdown center for the Crosbys are quite comical to be honest. Crosby lights up any team regardless of match ups. He scared me to play against before, and he still scares me to play against now. He will light us up no matter who is on our team, save for a Datsyuk/Zetterberg tandem.


That being said, I really dont understand the people saying Schenn will be playing a shut down role. He will be told to go out and play hockey. Not to worry about who is on the other side of the faceoff. That's what you tell rookies. He will not be told to contain the biggest stars in the league in his first season. I can guarantee he will be used in an offensive role next year because that's where his most natural skills lie.

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08-30-2011, 11:40 AM
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Why is it comical that people who watched good defensive forwards get lit up are concerned about inferior players getting owned worse?

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08-30-2011, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Why is it comical that people who watched good defensive forwards get lit up are concerned about inferior players getting owned worse?
Because that's not how it works. It's not as linear a trend as you seem to think it is. Just because Richards gave up Y goals to Crosby, doesnt mean a lesser player gives up 2 times as many.

Being "owned worse" is an extremely odd way of putting it. At some point there is only so much "ownage" a single player can inflict. Crosby scores no matter who he is matched up against. We're freaking out over something that would be a problem for us whether or not Richards was on our team.

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08-30-2011, 11:51 AM
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It's not a hard concept. Great players do better against bad players than they do against good players.

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08-30-2011, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It's not a hard concept. Great players do better against bad players than they do against good players.
Oh, so we'll be throwing "bad players" out against the good players now. Got it.

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08-30-2011, 11:56 AM
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Oh, so we'll be throwing "bad players" out against the good players now. Got it.
The players we'll be throwing out against him will be defensively inferior and generally more inexperienced than the players he used to face.

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08-30-2011, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The players we'll be throwing out against him will be defensively inferior and generally more inexperienced than the players he used to face.
It would actually be interesting to see what the stats are in regards to Crosby. I bet he scores more against the flyers than he does against 75% of the teams in the league.

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08-30-2011, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The players we'll be throwing out against him will be defensively inferior and generally more inexperienced than the players he used to face.
Correct, but not "bad".

I dont know what you guys think is going to happen when we play the likes of Crosby or Ovechkin. Is Crosby going to go from 2 points per game to 4 now that Richards is gone? It doesnt work like that.

Having a good defensive center is useful in that over the course of the season, they can prevent enough GA to make a significant difference. It's less useful in a game to game situation when you consider that you're going to get scored on by the superstar players anyways.

Am I concerned that the overall talent level dropped with the departure of Richards and Carter? Yes. Am I concerned that we dont have a true shut down center anymore? Nope, not at all.

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