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"Why is it always the enforcers?"

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Old
08-21-2011, 01:13 PM
  #1
LeafsGuru93
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"Why is it always the enforcers?"

Why is it always the enforcers?

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That message, both complex and simple, comes to mind with the recent death of hockey player Rick Rypien. Neither his life, nor his death, can be easily quantified or explained.

He suffered from a form of depression — as so many of us do — and eventually succumbed to it. He did so with a life all too public and a hockey role that that had proven to be challenging and destructive on so many levels for so many players.

It can be no coincidence that deaths among young hockey players — some drug-related, some depression-related, some alcohol-related — have come from those who are employed to be the tough guy in today’s game. In each of the deaths of Rypien at 27, Derek Boogaard at 28, and before that Bob Probert at 45 and John Kordic at 27 — all men gone well before their time, all fought on the ice and fought personal demons off it — there is an inate correlation between job description and personal problems.

There is nothing else like this in hockey. There is no list of young goalies gone, or young forwards of talent. But this is something both the National Hockey League and the NHL Players’ Association must look at with a new-found vigilance.

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Last edited by LeafsGuru93: 08-21-2011 at 01:22 PM. Reason: fix so the quote box shows
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Old
08-21-2011, 01:20 PM
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They get paid to be punched in the face. That would play with a lot of people's mind.

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08-21-2011, 01:20 PM
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I agree that the NHL and NHLPA should look into it.

These are the guys who have to play everyday knowing they'll at most see 5 minutes a game, and are borderline NHL players. It's def gotta be tough.

I'll just add that it's a little ironic, as these guys are mostly fan favorites and have very media-friendly and lovely personalities. However, it just goes to show we don't really know what goes on behind the scenes.

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08-21-2011, 01:34 PM
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Insensitive Burke says it has nothing to do with it

On TSN interview says they have other problems not related to their Job. Right Burkie your always right.

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08-21-2011, 01:45 PM
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It is a troubling question, and the league should definitely look into it. But I doubt that we'll find out much more than we already know: you have to be willing to take a lot of different kinds of punishment to play this particular role, and your off-ice life, past and/or present, might reflect more than a little of that turmoil.

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08-21-2011, 02:37 PM
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I had a friend in my first year in the military who suffered from depression, and he took his own life. I've been in therapy the last several years, and on medication battling depression. It's a dark place, you have days where you feel like absolutely nothing in your life is good. You feel worthless, and you think your problems are nothing but a burden to the people you love. I've never come to the point where I actually considered taking my own life, but I can understand how people get to that point.

Simmons in cherry picking here. Yes, players in the league that have had issues w/ depression, alcohol and, drugs. But that does not explain Tom Cavanagh, who took his life earlier this year. Cavanagh was not an enforcer, he was a skilled forward who lost his battle w/ depression. Theo Fleury has a history w/ depression and alcohol abuse. But Fleury has fortunately overcome his demons, and been able to become a powerful, positive influence.

Suicide, and depression doesn't only affect the hockey world. Former NFL running back Dave Duerson took his life earlier this year after years of battling depression. Last fall, wide receiver Kenny McKinley took his life suffering from the same problem. And Canadian gold medalist Clara Hughes, who now is the face for understanding of the problems surrounding depression, does so from a unique position of overcome it herself.

It's really easy to sit back, and make this connection when you're looking at it through a microscope. It's not nearly that simple. And *******s like Simmons, who hasn't a clue about the subject he's addressing, isn't helping anyone by simplifying it, and suggesting making fighting illegal in hockey will solve the problem. That's a very shortsighted, and narrow way of looking at a very big issue, that really can only be addressed on an individual basis.

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08-21-2011, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
I had a friend in my first year in the military who suffered from depression, and he took his own life. I've been in therapy the last several years, and on medication battling depression. It's a dark place, you have days where you feel like absolutely nothing in your life is good. You feel worthless, and you think your problems are nothing but a burden to the people you love. I've never come to the point where I actually considered taking my own life, but I can understand how people get to that point.

Simmons in cherry picking here. Yes, players in the league that have had issues w/ depression, alcohol and, drugs. But that does not explain Tom Cavanagh, who took his life earlier this year. Cavanagh was not an enforcer, he was a skilled forward who lost his battle w/ depression. Theo Fleury has a history w/ depression and alcohol abuse. But Fleury has fortunately overcome his demons, and been able to become a powerful, positive influence.

Suicide, and depression doesn't only affect the hockey world. Former NFL running back Dave Duerson took his life earlier this year after years of battling depression. Last fall, wide receiver Kenny McKinley took his life suffering from the same problem. And Canadian gold medalist Clara Hughes, who now is the face for understanding of the problems surrounding depression, does so from a unique position of overcome it herself.

It's really easy to sit back, and make this connection when you're looking at it through a microscope. It's not nearly that simple. And *******s like Simmons, who hasn't a clue about the subject he's addressing, isn't helping anyone by simplifying it, and suggesting making fighting illegal in hockey will solve the problem. That's a very shortsighted, and narrow way of looking at a very big issue, that really can only be addressed on an individual basis.
Nice to see you back LE, one of my favorite posters since joining.

In my opinion, X amount of psychiatric evaluations\counseling should be mandatory for any player who fights more than X # of fights, #2 I think a player should be limited to X amount of fights per year, and suspensions would be handed out to whomever participates in more than the # of allowed fights.

This way enforcers won't feel obligated to fight all the time, and it also shows that the NHL cares about their well being.

Edit: Like to add that I think arranged fights should result in suspensions, fighting should only be as a result of a battle, anger that has accumulated between two players, and not between two players who feel it needs to happen because that is their role, and that is why they are paid.


Last edited by Antropovsky: 08-21-2011 at 03:12 PM.
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Old
08-21-2011, 03:08 PM
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Let's ban enforcers! Also dentists.

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08-21-2011, 03:17 PM
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Many of these guys are a bit crazy with high strung emotions. That's what makes them a perfect fit for the enforcer role.


It's pretty obvious why they may be inclined to using alcohol and drugs.

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08-21-2011, 03:56 PM
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Well, its always the enforcers because guys who typically have that wild side to their lives - drugs booze and what not - are usually wild on the ice.

Pretty simple concept to understand, you can't control human nature.

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08-21-2011, 04:37 PM
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Brain injury & concussion can also play a part in causing depression.

Quote:
The prevalence of depression in the general population is around 5%, whilst the prevalence of depression in head trauma patients can reach an astounding 40 %
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0118115428.htm

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08-21-2011, 04:39 PM
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It's all here: http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/the_code/

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08-21-2011, 04:44 PM
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Chris Benoit went crazy, many say it had to do with the brain damage taken and not steriods.

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08-21-2011, 05:16 PM
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It's sad as hell the media is using Rypiens death as a vehicle for their anti fighting agenda. Correlation does not imply causation.

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08-21-2011, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
It's sad as hell the media is using Rypiens death as a vehicle for their anti fighting agenda. Correlation does not imply causation.
yeah, but head trauma has a causation with suicide.

I think Simmons is an idiot and doesn't know much about this subject, but there is nothing wrong with looking into it. It really is usually the enforcers and even though you brought up a few I would argue that an NFL runningback would likely have some head trauma as well.

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08-21-2011, 05:30 PM
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Brian Fogarty say skilled players sometimes have problems too.

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08-21-2011, 05:43 PM
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08-21-2011, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
yeah, but head trauma has a causation with suicide.

I think Simmons is an idiot and doesn't know much about this subject, but there is nothing wrong with looking into it. It really is usually the enforcers and even though you brought up a few I would argue that an NFL runningback would likely have some head trauma as well.
Head trauma happens troughout sports, and is not exclusive to enforcers. When I said "correlation does not imply causation" I was referring to the impliation that this issue is restricted to enforcers. That's where the agenda comes in, where many members of the media spin this subject at any chance they can to attack fighting in hockey.

Obviously education is the biggest thing. An athlete that is properly informed will have a better idea of the risk he takes in the sport he plays. The leagues have the responsibility to educate, and provide adequate rules and protection for their players.

Using Rypiens death to push their agenda is in extremely poor taste, and shows no respect to the Rypien, or his family.

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08-21-2011, 07:04 PM
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TBH it's the lifestyle of some of the enforcer's... Some just want to fit that Probert image on and off the ice

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08-21-2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
I had a friend in my first year in the military who suffered from depression, and he took his own life. I've been in therapy the last several years, and on medication battling depression. It's a dark place, you have days where you feel like absolutely nothing in your life is good. You feel worthless, and you think your problems are nothing but a burden to the people you love. I've never come to the point where I actually considered taking my own life, but I can understand how people get to that point.

Simmons in cherry picking here. Yes, players in the league that have had issues w/ depression, alcohol and, drugs. But that does not explain Tom Cavanagh, who took his life earlier this year. Cavanagh was not an enforcer, he was a skilled forward who lost his battle w/ depression. Theo Fleury has a history w/ depression and alcohol abuse. But Fleury has fortunately overcome his demons, and been able to become a powerful, positive influence.

Suicide, and depression doesn't only affect the hockey world. Former NFL running back Dave Duerson took his life earlier this year after years of battling depression. Last fall, wide receiver Kenny McKinley took his life suffering from the same problem. And Canadian gold medalist Clara Hughes, who now is the face for understanding of the problems surrounding depression, does so from a unique position of overcome it herself.

It's really easy to sit back, and make this connection when you're looking at it through a microscope. It's not nearly that simple. And *******s like Simmons, who hasn't a clue about the subject he's addressing, isn't helping anyone by simplifying it, and suggesting making fighting illegal in hockey will solve the problem. That's a very shortsighted, and narrow way of looking at a very big issue, that really can only be addressed on an individual basis.
Excellent post LE

Totally agree. The writer is cherry picking and using this sad event to cause a bit of a controversy.

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08-21-2011, 08:55 PM
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I could tell this piece of trash was written by Simmons just by the title. It's entirely stupid and given the subject matter completely irresponsible.

He consistently writes stuff that has no basis in fact for the sole purpose of stirring the pot. And apparently it's okay in his mind to use the death of a player to continue this agenda.

It's not always the enforcers. As many people have already pointed out, Tom Cavanaugh, Bryan Fogerty and Roman Lyashenko were not enforcers. Even basic research proves that Simmons theory is complete garbage.

Secondly, Bob Probert died of a heart attack. If you're going to include heart attack victims, then you have to include, Cherepanov, Zholtok and Mickey Renaud. Again none of which are enforcers.

Dany Heatley was charged with vehicular homicide in the crash that killed Snyder. Not an enforcer.

Alcohol related? The first one that comes to mind is Steve Chiasson. Not an enforcer.

No list of goalies? Holy **** does he know nothing about Terry Sawchuk?

Simmons once agains proves how ignorant he is.

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08-21-2011, 09:39 PM
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god, i HATE this idiot!

simmons is one of the worst critics of fighting. he has zero knowledge of hockey.

get rid of the stupid instigator rule and the idiotic armor. gilbert stein single-handedly changed the entire culture of the game in just one year as the commissioner. there was no frequent hooking and grabbing, cheapshots, and headshots before the stupid instigator was introduced. notice i said FREQUENT!

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08-21-2011, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdicks View Post
I think Simmons is an idiot and doesn't know much about this subject, but there is nothing wrong with looking into it.
That's completely true, however, Steve Simmons is a know-nothing sports reporter, and has no idea what the **** he's talking about when it comes to human psychology, and shouldn't be writing about it, as if he does, to the masses.

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08-22-2011, 04:37 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
It's sad as hell the media is using Rypiens death as a vehicle for their anti fighting agenda. Correlation does not imply causation.
It was only a matter of time before Simmons used the Rypien tragedy, connecting dots that more than likely don't even exist (it's not as if he was Rypien's psychologist on the side).

There is no low he won't stoop to in order to advance his zealous anti-fighting campaign.

Didn't he suggest that Boogaard's death was due to brain trauma?

The guy is a dirt-bag. One of the reasons I cancelled my subscription to the SUN.

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08-22-2011, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seeweed View Post
god, i HATE this idiot!

simmons is one of the worst critics of fighting. he has zero knowledge of hockey.

get rid of the stupid instigator rule and the idiotic armor. gilbert stein single-handedly changed the entire culture of the game in just one year as the commissioner. there was no frequent hooking and grabbing, cheapshots, and headshots before the stupid instigator was introduced. notice i said FREQUENT!

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