HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

What does everybody think of Muckler's job in Ottawa?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-12-2004, 06:41 PM
  #51
Tap on the Ankle
expert analysis
 
Tap on the Ankle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriss_co
the team, as a result of muckler, has gotten older and more expensive...
Uh.. I fail to see how the Sens could have gotten any younger. At this point, it's actually BETTER for the team to get older. Hossa, Spezza, Havlat, are still fairly young, and the older they get, the better they'll get. As for more expensive, of course they have. What do you expect, to trade all of our guys that are "expensive"? The Senators have been an elite team for quite a few years now and have managed to keep their payroll in the $35-40 million range. I wouldn't exactly call that expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriss_co
lalime at over $2 million a year is better than having a questionable hasek

he kinda threw lalime and bonk out for nothing... bonk i can understand cuz his qualifying offer is too high but lalime was fine at $2 mill...
Bonk wasn't thrown out for nothing. A 3rd round pick for a guy who wasn't going to get qualified (and likely would have ended up in Montreal anyway) is a good deal. Lalime made $2.5 mil, a fair deal for his services, but his days were numbered in Ottawa. You don't bring back a goalie who single handedly ruined your chances of winning the most important game of the year in a single period. Simple as that. Lalime would have had way too much pressure on him if he were back in Ottawa next season. He could have 4 straight shutouts, and then in the fifth game, let in a soft goal, and everyone would question his capability. Plus, most of the team probably wouldn't feel very confident playing in front of him again. There are not enough diapers in the world that could have saved Lalime from ******** the bed like he did in that game.

I know Hasek is a risk, but I feel much more comfortable taking that risk than bringing back Lalime. Because a 50% Hasek is still better than a 100% Lalime.

Tap on the Ankle is offline  
Old
08-12-2004, 07:05 PM
  #52
ErnestoGuevara
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisher
I know Hasek is a risk, but I feel much more comfortable taking that risk than bringing back Lalime. Because a 50% Hasek is still better than a 100% Lalime.
I this point of Hasek's career no... I expect Lalime to play as good if not better than Hasek next year while playing for the Blues but I think there is no way Lalime could have a good season next year in Ottawa, he completely lost confidence in himself and the fans, the media and the team lost confidence in him. Lalime is still a good goalie, only not in Ottawa, if he would've stayed I bet you Prusek would,ve taken over the #1 spot in a matter of a month or two and Lalime would've been put on waivers. Anyways that's just how I see it, he's a good goalie and might outperform Hasek this year but there's just no way he could've had a good season in Ottawa.

ErnestoGuevara is offline  
Old
08-12-2004, 09:18 PM
  #53
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Those were not the weaknesses on the club.

The weakness last season was unexpectedly piss-poor goaltending that choked on a regular basis.

Size and grit up front as weaknesses are a myth perpetrated by an ignorant media.
I disagree there. IMO the biggest reason the Sens lost to the Leafs was Jaques Martin, and NOT Patrick lalime.

John Flyers Fan is offline  
Old
08-13-2004, 09:40 AM
  #54
ErnestoGuevara
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
I disagree there. IMO the biggest reason the Sens lost to the Leafs was Jaques Martin, and NOT Patrick lalime.
Or Jacques Martin putting too much pressure on Lalime byt playing too defensivly and not let his offensive players go out and be creative.

ErnestoGuevara is offline  
Old
08-13-2004, 09:56 AM
  #55
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnestoGuevara
Or Jacques Martin putting too much pressure on Lalime byt playing too defensivly and not let his offensive players go out and be creative.
That series NEVER should have gone 7 games, but Martin playe right into Quinn's hand.

With Sundin hurt, the Leafs tried to play very safe and win games 1-0 or 2-1. The Senators played right into that and NEVER attacked. they played the same sit back and wait game, and lost.

Finally the Sens decided to attack in the 3rd period of game 6 and the OT, and what happened ??? They dominated play and won the game (after Lalime made an incredible save with a minute to go in regulation to save the season).

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to beat the Leafs. Heavy forecheck and attack their defenseman, by far the weakest point of their team. It works like a charm for the Flyers, and the Senators are much faster and have more skilled forwards than the Flyers do.

IMO only Chara and Hossa played woth a damn for the Senators.

John Flyers Fan is offline  
Old
08-13-2004, 10:56 AM
  #56
Egil
Registered User
 
Egil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,832
vCash: 500
If it wasn't for Lalime's piss poor regular season, we win the division and play Montreal in round 1. And by better regular season, I mean stopping 2 shots he let in from center ice, which if he stops, we win the division.

He then looked to be back on form come April, and played well the first 6 games, but that game 7 was deadly, just deadly.

Egil is offline  
Old
08-13-2004, 11:08 AM
  #57
50 Mission Cap
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pembroke, Ontario
Posts: 1,069
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egil
If it wasn't for Lalime's piss poor regular season, we win the division and play Montreal in round 1. And by better regular season, I mean stopping 2 shots he let in from center ice, which if he stops, we win the division.

He then looked to be back on form come April, and played well the first 6 games, but that game 7 was deadly, just deadly.

And there aer plenty of other teams that say they coiuld have been better if it hadn't been for one or two games.

That logic doesn't work in a vacuum. Ottawa wasn't the only team that lost games they should have won.

50 Mission Cap is offline  
Old
08-13-2004, 12:27 PM
  #58
Murphy*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SilverCupVille
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 5,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
IMO only Chara and Hossa played woth a damn for the Senators.
I'd say that there were a few more guys than that who played well...Fisher, Schaefer, Vermette and Phillips played pretty dam well too.

Murphy* is offline  
Old
08-13-2004, 01:49 PM
  #59
Egil
Registered User
 
Egil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 50 Mission Cap
And there aer plenty of other teams that say they coiuld have been better if it hadn't been for one or two games.

That logic doesn't work in a vacuum. Ottawa wasn't the only team that lost games they should have won.
Obviously. But if Lalime was even SLIGHTLY better (and again, by better I mean not letting in 3 shots from center), we win the division. The true point is that Lalime had a piss poor regular season, and followed it up with handing game 7 to the Leafs on a golden platter. And as such, he had to go.

Egil is offline  
Old
08-14-2004, 10:09 AM
  #60
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trentmccleary
1) fill holes
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
Gee, to think all these years I thought being a good GM meant winning games. I had no idea it had little to do with being a good/perfect GM. I'm glad you cleared that up for me.
Wow, you've been posting here this long and have never realized that teams without holes... win games?
You might also be shocked to know that teams with good pools of prospects have bright futures. (ie: winning games in the future)

This may help you from embarrassing yourself yourself in the future:
Deduction: a) the deriving of a conclusion by reasoning; specifically : inference in which the conclusion about particulars follows necessarily from general or universal premises -- b) a conclusion reached by logical deduction

trentmccleary is offline  
Old
08-14-2004, 10:22 AM
  #61
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbl1p
Power left-wingers who play top line aren't just stumbled upon. Of course thats our need, but there just ain't the availability of this type without grossly overpaying.
Not everybody is asking for a first line power forward.
Tampa Bay just won with a lot of help from Ruslan Fedotenko.
Detroit won Cups with help from Tomas Homstrom.
Lacroix traded Owen Nolan (for Ozonlish) and Adam Deadmarsh (for Blake) before each of Colorado's Stanley Cup wins.

A top tier PF isn't necessary. However, it is entirely clear that Belfour saw way too many of our 35 shots/pergame (or so).
We just need a guy who can help Hossa/Alfie/Havlat score. He doesn't need to lead our team in scoring.

I didn't support the Bondra deal at all. I wouldn't have supported a Chris Simon deal at the time either (thought he was too old to be effective).
But when all is said and done... Chris Simon turned out to be the guy we needed.

It's been 4 months since then and the best we can really say is that Muckler hasn't given up too many players assets. He's making moves now for the sake of making moves. While holes that Gauthier was trying to fill eight frickin' years ago go unfilled.

trentmccleary is offline  
Old
08-14-2004, 04:43 PM
  #62
Sting
Registered User
 
Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,140
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Sting
The Varada trade was great. Varada gave us a lot that year that we lacked in the past. He really clicked with Hossa and Bonk and boy did he ever piss off the opposition.

While I am upset at some of the recent deals he's made (Bondra, De Vries), I am happy that for the most part he has kept our youth together. Fisher, Havlat, Hossa and Spezza will be great for years to come, and I can't see him trading them.

The only thing Muckler should've done, and should still do...is grab a top line center. We likely could've had Lang last year, and he would've given us a lot. Heck, even Jason Allison would be a good risk because he's a big body - something we lack other than Chara.

Sting is offline  
Old
08-15-2004, 05:21 AM
  #63
andora
Registered User
 
andora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Illuminating Prince
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,051
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to andora
horrid job imo...

1> relying on an easily rattled kid as your number one center
2> moving a very very good complimentary centerman with size
3> moving a player like rachunek, who plays and has similar skills and potential to sergei zubov for an older useless player by ottawa's standards
4> moving youth for a guy like bondra, addressing nothing
5> going with a dinosaur in goal who has a glass groin
6> not addressing size need while he easily has the assets
7> not adding depth on defense for a playoff run

bah, too many to list

andora is offline  
Old
08-15-2004, 06:01 AM
  #64
n00dles
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Germany
Country: Greece
Posts: 839
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
3> moving a player like rachunek, who plays and has similar skills and potential to sergei zubov for an older useless player by ottawa's standards
DeVries played very good in the playoffs the year before with Colorado and there where some internal problems with Rachunek so at that time it wasn't that bad a trade.

n00dles is offline  
Old
08-15-2004, 09:59 AM
  #65
GaryU
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Schaumburg,Il
Posts: 2,991
vCash: 500
The Sens have an awful lot of talent (as much or more than most teams), so he makes good decisions on draft day. But, they've done nothing in the postseason. I think this is a make or break season for Muckler.

GaryU is offline  
Old
08-16-2004, 09:48 AM
  #66
andora
Registered User
 
andora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Illuminating Prince
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,051
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to andora
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00dles
DeVries played very good in the playoffs the year before with Colorado and there where some internal problems with Rachunek so at that time it wasn't that bad a trade.
i understand and know about the internal problems, but the trade was still a bad one. there had to be better options, to go back to last year's deadline and look around, there would be better options i'm sure

i don't know, i just hated it for ottawa

andora is offline  
Old
08-16-2004, 03:00 PM
  #67
ErnestoGuevara
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
7> not adding depth on defense for a playoff run
He did acquire Todd Simpson in the middle of the season and only had to give up an underachieving Petr Schastlivy for him....

Redden, Pothier, Chara, Phillips, de Vries, Volchenkov, Leshyschyn, Simpson; he had 8 healthy NHL defensemen along with Smrek and Vauclair on the farm... hwo much mroe depth do you want?

ErnestoGuevara is offline  
Old
08-17-2004, 04:19 AM
  #68
andora
Registered User
 
andora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Illuminating Prince
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,051
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to andora
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnestoGuevara
He did acquire Todd Simpson in the middle of the season and only had to give up an underachieving Petr Schastlivy for him....

Redden, Pothier, Chara, Phillips, de Vries, Volchenkov, Leshyschyn, Simpson; he had 8 healthy NHL defensemen along with Smrek and Vauclair on the farm... hwo much mroe depth do you want?
smrek and vauclair? seriously... the simpson was my error an i apologize, simple forgetfullness... but smrek and vauclair... come on

andora is offline  
Old
08-17-2004, 10:59 AM
  #69
V for Voodoo
Registered User
 
V for Voodoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boom Shaka-Laka.
Country: Nepal
Posts: 5,004
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to V for Voodoo Send a message via MSN to V for Voodoo
So in your opinion, having 'only' 8 nhl defenseman doesn't constitute having proper depth?
What does it take, 9 or 10?

V for Voodoo is offline  
Old
08-17-2004, 11:20 AM
  #70
Kafka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,118
vCash: 500
I have the feeling he will prove everyone that he was the one who had to be fired...

First move of Muckler: Trading Lalime.

Why? Cause Lalime didn't score a single goal during the playoff run against Toronto. By helping his team with 3 goals in at least one of the three games where Toronto shoutout Ottawa, the Senators would have pass the Leafs easily.

.....still in the first move: Signing of Hasek.

Hasek was signed like if he was going to save the team. For that purpose, Hasek will need to be healty AND to play like he played 3-4 years ago. I will take Prusek in my next pool.

IMO, Muckler may be saved by Spezza and Prusek performances. If they don't show up, I wonder how long if will take for this team to change it's GM.

Kafka is offline  
Old
08-17-2004, 07:29 PM
  #71
zenator
Registered User
 
zenator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,783
vCash: 500
I think Muckler's done an alright job, though not great.

Not trading for a goalie was all he could do. Olie Kolzig was the only available 1, and the Sens might have beat the Leafs, but they wouldn't win the cup with him, the team was playing too inconsistently. The price for Kolzig was apparently Vermette and Volchenkov, and I wouldn't trade either one for a moderate upgrade in goal from average to above-average.

Rachunek - deVries verdict is still out. DeVries played mediocre last year, but give him time to get used to the teammates. He may bounce back. I don't like Rachunek's attitude, and don't think he'll be great.

Smolinski - Gleason. I think Gleason will be a star. However, this move was forced, as the Sens didn't have $ to sign Gleason and would have lost him for nothing.

Salo - Schaefer. Win for both teams. Both players were needed, and improved since the trade.

Pothier - McEachern. I don't like Pothier at all, but McEachern became too expensive for leadership and effort, but no playoff production. He'd be gone by now as a UFA by now anyways.

Bondra - 2nd + Laich. Didn't work out, but if Bondra resigns, he should play better next year. Laich has 3rd line potential, 2nd will be late, so the price wasn't that steep.

Varada - Klepis. Good trade. I doubt Klepis will ever amount to much. Every team needs a Varada.

Bonk - 3rd. With everyone in the NHL knowing the Sens weren't going to resign Bonk, why would they pay more than a 3rd for him ?

Prospal was traded for a late 2nd rounder, about 12 picks before Bonk's pick, and he is probably the better player.

Lalime - 4th. No choice.

Hasek signing. Great gamble. Could pay off with a Stanley Cup. Or could be a relatively cheap ($2 m) injury loss. The Sens are better off going with Prusek/Emery than staying with Lalime. Who else could they get... Osgood??? I'd rather have Lalime.


So none of the trades were giveaways, but none were steals either.


I find the Sens' organization to be a little thin on defense. Centre has little offensive ability except for Spezza.

I'm not sure yet about the drafting. We'll know in a few years.


I'll give Muckler a 6.5 out of 10 for now. If Hasek wins the cup, Mucks gets a 9.

zenator is offline  
Old
08-18-2004, 08:20 AM
  #72
rebedom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 426
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenator1
I think Muckler's done an alright job, though not great.

Not trading for a goalie was all he could do. Olie Kolzig was the only available 1, and the Sens might have beat the Leafs, but they wouldn't win the cup with him, the team was playing too inconsistently. The price for Kolzig was apparently Vermette and Volchenkov, and I wouldn't trade either one for a moderate upgrade in goal from average to above-average.

Rachunek - deVries verdict is still out. DeVries played mediocre last year, but give him time to get used to the teammates. He may bounce back. I don't like Rachunek's attitude, and don't think he'll be great.

Smolinski - Gleason. I think Gleason will be a star. However, this move was forced, as the Sens didn't have $ to sign Gleason and would have lost him for nothing.

Salo - Schaefer. Win for both teams. Both players were needed, and improved since the trade.

Pothier - McEachern. I don't like Pothier at all, but McEachern became too expensive for leadership and effort, but no playoff production. He'd be gone by now as a UFA by now anyways.

Bondra - 2nd + Laich. Didn't work out, but if Bondra resigns, he should play better next year. Laich has 3rd line potential, 2nd will be late, so the price wasn't that steep.

Varada - Klepis. Good trade. I doubt Klepis will ever amount to much. Every team needs a Varada.

Bonk - 3rd. With everyone in the NHL knowing the Sens weren't going to resign Bonk, why would they pay more than a 3rd for him ?

Prospal was traded for a late 2nd rounder, about 12 picks before Bonk's pick, and he is probably the better player.

Lalime - 4th. No choice.

Hasek signing. Great gamble. Could pay off with a Stanley Cup. Or could be a relatively cheap ($2 m) injury loss. The Sens are better off going with Prusek/Emery than staying with Lalime. Who else could they get... Osgood??? I'd rather have Lalime.


So none of the trades were giveaways, but none were steals either.


I find the Sens' organization to be a little thin on defense. Centre has little offensive ability except for Spezza.

I'm not sure yet about the drafting. We'll know in a few years.


I'll give Muckler a 6.5 out of 10 for now. If Hasek wins the cup, Mucks gets a 9.
Good post and I agree with much of what you have said. I too think that Muckler has done an admiral job considering the circumstances involved in each of the trades he has done. People post comments sometimes without knowing all of the circumstances involved and remember that there are others in the organization that also have input into everything that Muckler does, it is not just the GM making the decisions, the coaches, scouts, and ownership can also have input and the rules of the game.

In the case of Lalime, Jacques Martin was a big Lalime supporter, Kolzig was too expensive and there simply wasn't any other choice at the time. Hasek was a great signing if it works out (as Barasso was) and if it doesn't we either go with Prusek and Emery or trade for another team's backup like Turek who was also at one point in his career a top goalie.

Muckler still needs to pull off one or two deals, I would like to see them go after Fedorov and re-sign Bondra. A 1st line of Bondra - Fedorov - Alfredson would be dynamite followed by a 2nd line of Havlat - Spezza - Hossa would be a great one - two punch. Then a 3rd line of Schaefer - Fisher - Neil and a 4th line of Langfeld - Vermette - Hamel would probably give us the best offensive team in the NHL, again.

I think our defense is set with Redden and De Vries, Chara and Phillips, and Pothier with Volchenkov. Some posts are down on Pothier but remember he was a captain in Bingo, 3rd in scoring in Bingo, was an all-star in the AHL, Muckler and Paddock are both very high on him and it was his first full season in the NHL last year. Give this guy some time and he may surprise us. Also, with Vauclair, Schubert, Platil and Fibiger to call up they will be fine on defence. Meszaros and Lyamin also strengthen our defence for the future (maybe Seydoux and Karlsson too).

I also think we are very strong in net providing that Hasek stays healthy, if not, then Prusek must step up and I think he can and Emery will only continue to get better. Thompson, Glass and Guard will also get better.

So the only weakness on our team is to acquire more grit that can score on LW and that #1 centreman. I think Todd White's days may be numbered, Smolinski may go in a trade and although a fan favourite Varada or Schaefer may also find themselves as part of a trade to make room for a new guy. The guys we have in Bingo today can only fill in on the 3rd or 4th lines temporarily, I don't see anyone in Bingo today making the big club in camp this year. (Maybe Hamel - Is Payer gone?)

rebedom is offline  
Old
08-18-2004, 12:34 PM
  #73
ErnestoGuevara
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
smrek and vauclair? seriously... the simpson was my error an i apologize, simple forgetfullness... but smrek and vauclair... come on
Smrek has some NHL experience and Vauclair, who is an AHL all-star could very well be in the NHL next season (if he decides to stay in NA and plays for another team). They're not great depth but when they are #9 and #10 on the depth chart with Simpson and Leschyshyn in front of them as #8 and 7 it means you have very good depth on the blueline.


Last edited by ErnestoGuevara: 08-18-2004 at 12:40 PM.
ErnestoGuevara is offline  
Old
08-18-2004, 12:39 PM
  #74
ErnestoGuevara
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebedom
Muckler still needs to pull off one or two deals, I would like to see them go after Fedorov and re-sign Bondra. A 1st line of Bondra - Fedorov - Alfredson would be dynamite followed by a 2nd line of Havlat - Spezza - Hossa would be a great one - two punch. Then a 3rd line of Schaefer - Fisher - Neil and a 4th line of Langfeld - Vermette - Hamel would probably give us the best offensive team in the NHL, again.
Where do Smolinski, Varada and White fit in??? White might be on his way out, Smolinski I'm unsure but I really doubt Mucks would trade Varada, the exact type of player this team needs and one of Muckler's favorites as well.

ErnestoGuevara is offline  
Old
08-18-2004, 01:02 PM
  #75
Kickabrat
WHAT - ME WORRY?
 
Kickabrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,924
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
The decision to go with Dominik Hasek is a gamble.
How so? If he is a complete bust, it costs them $2M and they still have quality depth with lots of potential at the position (Prusek, Emery, Thompson, Guard and also Elliot and Glass still in Junior). Signing Hasek was a calculated risk, not a gamble.

If signing Hasek was a gamble what about Belfour? He's less than 90 days younger than Hasek, has also had injury trouble, but he gets signed to a gizzilion dollars. That's a gamble.

Kickabrat is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:54 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.