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Mtl - Phi

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Old
08-21-2011, 07:51 PM
  #1
0hBehave
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Mtl - Phi

Well with the trades Philly pulled over the off season they are now pretty much stacked up at Center.

Briere
Giroux
Schenn
Couturier

The Habs on the other hand have good defensive depth.

Webber
Diaz
Emelin
Tinordi
Beaulieu
and more.

Obviously the Habs will need help down the middle in a couple years
Pleky is the only established Center right now for 2 years from now.
Hopefully Eller can reach his potential and Desharnais can be another Fleury or St-Louis story.
I find that a long shot so I believe Habs will be looking to improve at the Center position.

As for the Flyers Defense will need to be retooled.
Pronger and Timonen will be gone.

I think both teams make good trade partners right now.

Heres what I think can benefit both teams.

To PHI:
Tinordi + 3rd

To Habs:
Schenn

Or maybe:

To PHI:
Beaulieu + 3rd

To Habs:
Couturier

Each team fills a position of need down the road.

What do you guys think? Fair value? No?

Be gentle... it's my first post!

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Old
08-21-2011, 07:54 PM
  #2
FanHabtic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0hBehave View Post
Well with the trades Philly pulled over the off season they are now pretty much stacked up at Center.

Briere
Giroux
Schenn
Couturier

The Habs on the other hand have good defensive depth.

Webber
Diaz
Emelin
Tinordi
Beaulieu
and more.

Obviously the Habs will need help down the middle in a couple years
Pleky is the only established Center right now for 2 years from now.
Hopefully Eller can reach his potential and Desharnais can be another Fleury or St-Louis story.
I find that a long shot so I believe Habs will be looking to improve at the Center position.

As for the Flyers Defense will need to be retooled.
Pronger and Timonen will be gone.

I think both teams make good trade partners right now.

Heres what I think can benefit both teams.

To PHI:
Tinordi + 3rd

To Habs:
Schenn

Or maybe:

To PHI:
Beaulieu + 3rd

To Habs:
Couturier

Each team fills a position of need down the road.

What do you guys think? Fair value? No?

Be gentle... it's my first post!
Flyers wouldn't do either. Couturier and Schenn are far > than Tinordi / Bealieu plus low pics. Habs would take that and run! Pierre Gauthier would be under investigation for grand larceny.

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Old
08-21-2011, 07:56 PM
  #3
The Nuge
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Philly is getting ripped off in both. I'd say Beaulieu and a 1st for SC would be fair

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Old
08-21-2011, 07:59 PM
  #4
Valic
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So bad. Do you honestly think a third would be what's required to move up to the draft position from where the Habs players were picked compared to where Philly's were? Let alone the fact Schenn has done nothing but improve his stock where as Tinordi if anything would have slid a bit.

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:00 PM
  #5
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If Philly wanted defensive depth over center depth they would have just drafted Hamilton (by almost all accounts a superior player) over Couturier. Tinordi for Schenn is insulting to Philly. If anything it would be Schenn+ for Subban.

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:07 PM
  #6
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Not even close

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:07 PM
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0hBehave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
If Philly wanted defensive depth over center depth they would have just drafted Hamilton (by almost all accounts a superior player) over Couturier. Tinordi for Schenn is insulting to Philly. If anything it would be Schenn+ for Subban.
Yeah I was thinking about that... you think they drafted Couturier as a way of saying F you Richards and or Carter because they knew they were going to trade them?

I mean Hamilton is indeed a great prospect I figured on Draft day Philly would jump on him ?

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:11 PM
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Not even close

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:11 PM
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Why did I come here?

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:13 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by 0hBehave View Post
Yeah I was thinking about that... you think they drafted Couturier as a way of saying F you Richards and or Carter because they knew they were going to trade them?

I mean Hamilton is indeed a great prospect I figured on Draft day Philly would jump on him ?
No general manager would draft an inferior player just to spite someone they traded... maybe Milbury but even that is a reach. I'm guessing they either legitimately thought Couturier was better or thought the difference in position overshadowed the difference in quality.

Most likely they want to keep 3 high end centers for the next 10+ years and worry about defense once those issues start popping up. That generally is the most stable way to build a team.

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08-21-2011, 08:22 PM
  #11
o Hamhuis 2 x
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Remember when Couturier and Nugent-Hopkins were battling it out for top pick? That's why we drafted him.

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08-21-2011, 08:24 PM
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As a Devils fan , looking at the Flyers depth at Center makes me
Going to be a pain in the butt playing against them for years to come.
Thats creepy-good center depth. Almost Penguin-like.
Speaking of that , would you personaly perfer to have the pens set up of 2 godly centers , one very good center and a crapbag center , or flyer depth in 4 very good centers?

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08-21-2011, 08:31 PM
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Any flyer fan posters be cool and post projected forward lines?
Kinda curious to see what the will be rockin this year.
I am not too sure what they have for wingers.
JVR Simmonds Vor Hartnl , not sure after that.
Top 6 looks very decent ( I just puked in my mouth admitting that)

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:34 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o Hamhuis 2 x View Post
Remember when Couturier and Nugent-Hopkins were battling it out for top pick? That's why we drafted him.
Yeah I remember when Kabanov was top 5 as well.

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:35 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggtimer View Post
As a Devils fan , looking at the Flyers depth at Center makes me
Going to be a pain in the butt playing against them for years to come.
Thats creepy-good center depth. Almost Penguin-like.
Speaking of that , would you personaly perfer to have the pens set up of 2 godly centers , one very good center and a crapbag center , or flyer depth in 4 very good centers?
It is too early to tell how Schenn and Couturier play out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggtimer View Post
Any flyer fan posters be cool and post projected forward lines?
Kinda curious to see what the will be rockin this year.
I am not too sure what they have for wingers.
JVR Simmonds Vor Hartnl , not sure after that.
Top 6 looks very decent ( I just puked in my mouth admitting that)
Check our board real quick. There is a thread someone started. There are a few ideas being floated around.

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:39 PM
  #16
BernieTheGreat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggtimer View Post
Any flyer fan posters be cool and post projected forward lines?
Kinda curious to see what the will be rockin this year.
I am not too sure what they have for wingers.
JVR Simmonds Vor Hartnl , not sure after that.
Top 6 looks very decent ( I just puked in my mouth admitting that)
My guess would be something like this

JVR-Giroux-Jagr
Hartnell-Briere-Voracek
Nodl/Read-Schenn-Simmonds
Talbot/Betts-???

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:45 PM
  #17
JCameron418
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JVR, Bob, Giroux, and Schenn for Gomez

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Old
08-21-2011, 08:53 PM
  #18
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I forgot about Jagr lol.
What is the scoop on this Read fellow? I don't follow flyers that much and do not know anyhting about him. Blue chip type prospect or more of a bottom 6 tweener? What type of skillset? Power forward? Name a player he is projected to be a comparable to?

Thats the thing that worries me with Schenn and Couturier. At the very least can be decent/ above average centers , but both have potential to be studs.... add that to Giroux and JVR , thats a pretty damn good group of 4 forwards to build around.

Just hope your D gets old and crusty in a hurry

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Old
08-21-2011, 09:22 PM
  #19
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I can't see either of the guys in the OP trade proposal being better than Coburn, Meszaros or Carle so we'd just be better off resigning all of them and keeping our good center depth.


If you want one of our young enters I think that PK would have to be coming back the other way. Giroux for Subban is probably pretty close (though neither fan base would like it), Schenn + 2nd for Subban is probably fair but Habs fans balk, and Couturier + 1st for Subban is fair but Habs wouldn't want to "wait and see" with a recent 1st rnd pick and a pick in next years draft.


The "value" of these 3 trades is probably pretty close but I can't see any of them happening. Although the Flyers do have FUTURE strong center depth, the truth is that right now they DON'T have strong NHL center depth. In fact, we are very very weak at center. We are trusting a rookie to become our shutdown center and if he can't handle it Max Talbot is our "backup plan", yikes!!!! Couturier is at least 1 year away from playing in the NHL and unless we really really suck and HAVE to bring him in next year he could very well play out his full junior career (not necessarily a bad thing either). By the time Couturier is ready to become one of our top centers, Briere will be on the decline and likely moved to wing. We will NEED all of Giroux, Schenn and Couturier for our top 3 lines (2 scoring lines and one shutdown line).

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Old
08-21-2011, 09:58 PM
  #20
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Hahahahaha what is this?

Gomez for Giroux, book it.

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Old
08-21-2011, 10:00 PM
  #21
o Hamhuis 2 x
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Yeah I remember when Kabanov was top 5 as well.
I like Kabanov. I think he'll do good when he gets his chance.

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Old
08-21-2011, 10:10 PM
  #22
palindrom
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I am a Habs fan, and i feel ashamed of this proposal.

just take the Beaulieu vs Couturier...they was both drafted this year 17th and 8th overall


a 3th round pick is way under the historic price to move up 9 place in the draft (in the 1st round).


Last edited by palindrom: 08-21-2011 at 10:16 PM.
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Old
08-21-2011, 10:23 PM
  #23
Playmaker09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valic View Post
So bad. Do you honestly think a third would be what's required to move up to the draft position from where the Habs players were picked compared to where Philly's were? Let alone the fact Schenn has done nothing but improve his stock where as Tinordi if anything would have slid a bit.
While Couturier is a far better prospect than Beaulieu, your reasoning is complete BS. On draft day last year, who did you think had more value, Cam Fowler or Brett Connolly?

Beaulieu was expected to be a bubble top 10 pick, and that's what his value is, it has nothing to do with his draft position. Couturier also fell which is partly why he holds more value, but when compared to Mark Scheifle who was a clear reach at 7 the difference in value between him and Beaulieu is marginal, if anything.

Maybe not to Winnipeg, but it's not unthinkable that there were several teams who may have had Beaulieu ranked higher, just as a good number of teams may have had Couturier as a top 5 pick.

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Old
08-21-2011, 10:39 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0hBehave View Post
Well with the trades Philly pulled over the off season they are now pretty much stacked up at Center.

Briere
Giroux
Schenn
Couturier

The Habs on the other hand have good defensive depth.

Webber
Diaz
Emelin
Tinordi
Beaulieu
and more.

Obviously the Habs will need help down the middle in a couple years
Pleky is the only established Center right now for 2 years from now.
Hopefully Eller can reach his potential and Desharnais can be another Fleury or St-Louis story.
I find that a long shot so I believe Habs will be looking to improve at the Center position.

As for the Flyers Defense will need to be retooled.
Pronger and Timonen will be gone.

I think both teams make good trade partners right now.

Heres what I think can benefit both teams.

To PHI:
Tinordi + 3rd

To Habs:
Schenn

Or maybe:

To PHI:
Beaulieu + 3rd

To Habs:
Couturier

Each team fills a position of need down the road.

What do you guys think? Fair value? No?

Be gentle... it's my first post!
If at first you do not succeed... wait a few weeks before your next proposal.

The Flyers really get screwed here. Both times.

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Old
08-21-2011, 10:47 PM
  #25
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
While Couturier is a far better prospect than Beaulieu, your reasoning is complete BS. On draft day last year, who did you think had more value, Cam Fowler or Brett Connolly?

Beaulieu was expected to be a bubble top 10 pick, and that's what his value is, it has nothing to do with his draft position. Couturier also fell which is partly why he holds more value, but when compared to Mark Scheifle who was a clear reach at 7 the difference in value between him and Beaulieu is marginal, if anything.

Maybe not to Winnipeg, but it's not unthinkable that there were several teams who may have had Beaulieu ranked higher, just as a good number of teams may have had Couturier as a top 5 pick.
There is some true to your argument, but in general, it doesnt hold.
Of course there are exception, but the rank a player is drafted is closer to the consensus than the opposite.

As long as we dont have evidence we can only make wild guess. It can goes both way.

Who know? Maybe Beaulieu wasnt not even a 1st on the flyers list?

So using historical trading value to move up in ranking is closer to the difference between couturier and Beulieu than trying to make a wild (or educated guess) about their relative value.

Another problem with this proposal is Montreal would not be alone to make an offer for couturier/scheen. Only the best offer in the eye of the flyers would be accepted.

What if a team had Couturier in the Top 3 in his list? they would probably willing to give more than what Montreal is offering in this proposal.

The only thing we can know for a fact is the flyers had couturier at least in the top 8 in their draft list. But probably higher.

Usually, all drafted players are higher on the list of the team drafting them, than their actual draft rank.


Last edited by palindrom: 08-21-2011 at 10:54 PM.
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