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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

OT: Professional Basketball League In Canada

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Old
08-21-2011, 10:43 PM
  #1
sawchuk1971
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OT: Professional Basketball League In Canada

will it work in canada?

since hockey is king in canada, i believe a basketball league competing against supposedly the nation's favorite sport, ice hockey, might fail again..........

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball.../18582326.html

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This has been a story that’s been told before as Canada has seen quite a few professional basketball leagues start up with this exact same promise only to see the league fold after one of two seasons.

There are multiple reasons as to why professional basketball just hasn’t worked in Canada but, according to NBLC President and CEO Andre Levingston, the main reason for the failures seen in past leagues is because those leagues launched at the wrong time - a mistake that the NBLC isn’t making as he believes that Canada is now ready for professional basketball to call its own.

“There have been a lot of companies that have failed in the past because of timing,” Levingston said. “It doesn’t matter what that business is, it can be a hamburger shop or a major company. The major deciding factor is timing and we feel that the timing is perfect for professional basketball.

“We think the country is now ready to not only accept and support professional basketball but to also enjoy the entertainment that we’ll be bringing.”


Last edited by sawchuk1971: 08-21-2011 at 10:51 PM.
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08-21-2011, 11:15 PM
  #2
InfinityIggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawchuk1971 View Post
will it work in canada?

since hockey is king in canada, i believe a basketball league competing against supposedly the nation's favorite sport, ice hockey, might fail again..........

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball.../18582326.html
I burst out laughing when I read "each team will have a $150,000 Cap hit to work with."

Good luck I don't see this working out.

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08-21-2011, 11:35 PM
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Kaner Coffee
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The Raps seem to be popular in Toronto, so maybe there is interest

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08-21-2011, 11:53 PM
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leoleo3535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
I burst out laughing when I read "each team will have a $150,000 Cap hit to work with."

Good luck I don't see this working out.
I don't see it working either but the $150,000 cap won't be the problem.

That certainly equates to more than alot of pro hockey leagues.
Keep in mind its only a 36 game schedule and a small roster, small /cheap facilities.

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08-21-2011, 11:58 PM
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Shawa666
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This league has no aspiration to compete with the NHL.

It was created by 3 teams that left the PBL after the league's owner tried to fix the playoffs, and succeeded to do so, in favour of his team. This cost him all of the league's teams, except his own.

The plan is to have the teams to play out of Junior arenas (except in Québec, le Colisée is to expensive, so they play out of Université Laval's gym.) 4 expansion teams were created, Oshawa, London, Moncton and PEI. Word around the minor sports scene is that this seems to be a legit effort.

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08-22-2011, 12:16 AM
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Kaner Coffee
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I can't wait to see which players take their talents to PEI.

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08-22-2011, 02:18 AM
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Thank You Based God
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Nah they got the Raptors and had the grizzlies.

Basketballs not big enough up there to be a top draw outside of the big markets (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, etc).

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08-22-2011, 02:33 AM
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Uncle Rotter
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It's failed before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...League_(Canada)

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08-22-2011, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaner Coffee View Post
I can't wait to see which players take their talents to PEI.
Probably Tommy Hubbard once he gets his degree. (If you don't know who that is... exactly.)

Three of these clubs (I think) already existed and are breakaways from the PBL. All the teams are reasonably close together, so they should have relatively little turnover from travel costs (hopefully none). Halifax, in particular, has been trying to find a legitimate league to play in for years. Maybe starting their own league with Quebec and St. John is the way to do it.

I hope the communities come out in support of these teams. Minor league sports are an oft-overlooked form of entertainment, and you generally aren't going to beat the prices. We've got pro baseball teams in a bunch of small towns here in Appalachia, and most of them charge $5 or less for general admission, and no tickets are over $10. You're not going to beat that entertainment value anywhere.

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08-22-2011, 05:28 AM
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I guess it depends on what one terms success. I still don't think it will outdraw junior hockey and that shows how little interest there is in basketball.

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08-22-2011, 08:00 AM
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wjhl2009fan
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Originally Posted by Thank You Based God View Post
Nah they got the Raptors and had the grizzlies.

Basketballs not big enough up there to be a top draw outside of the big markets (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, etc).
I think a league like this could have more success in the smaller markets i don't think it would do all that well in the bigger markets.

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08-22-2011, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...4_%28Canada%29


there were announcements about this a few times where it went nowhere quicklly

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08-22-2011, 08:58 AM
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Mungman
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I remember this go at it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg_Thunder

Man it was alot of fun, I remember big crowds (for minor B-Ball) af about 6-7 thousand and 12k+ for the playoffs. I'd like to see them make a go of it, but with smaller centres like that I see it as not growing beyond a regional league(s) kinda like the CHL is.

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08-22-2011, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Probably Tommy Hubbard once he gets his degree. (If you don't know who that is... exactly.)

Three of these clubs (I think) already existed and are breakaways from the PBL. All the teams are reasonably close together, so they should have relatively little turnover from travel costs (hopefully none). Halifax, in particular, has been trying to find a legitimate league to play in for years. Maybe starting their own league with Quebec and St. John is the way to do it.

I hope the communities come out in support of these teams. Minor league sports are an oft-overlooked form of entertainment, and you generally aren't going to beat the prices. We've got pro baseball teams in a bunch of small towns here in Appalachia, and most of them charge $5 or less for general admission, and no tickets are over $10. You're not going to beat that entertainment value anywhere.
Our Indy league team here in Québec doesn't have a ticket under 10$.

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08-22-2011, 09:36 AM
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optimus2861
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Living in Halifax, I can say the Rainmen don't have much marketing presence. I couldn't tell you when their season starts, how many games they play, how much a ticket costs, etc. It probably attracts only basketball die-hards.

This league will have a lot of work to do to stay afloat.

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08-22-2011, 09:42 AM
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wjhl2009fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
Living in Halifax, I can say the Rainmen don't have much marketing presence. I couldn't tell you when their season starts, how many games they play, how much a ticket costs, etc. It probably attracts only basketball die-hards.

This league will have a lot of work to do to stay afloat.
To be fair the rainman did ok in the pbl attendance wise and there is no reason to beleave that would change.

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08-22-2011, 11:33 AM
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Might survive one year if the NBA is locked out, but with teams in London, Moncton and PEI this is destined for failure.

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08-22-2011, 12:12 PM
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Might survive one year if the NBA is locked out, but with teams in London, Moncton and PEI this is destined for failure.
No not really look at the chl most of the best supported markets are not the big ones but the small one's like london etc.

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08-22-2011, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
Living in Halifax, I can say the Rainmen don't have much marketing presence. I couldn't tell you when their season starts, how many games they play, how much a ticket costs, etc. It probably attracts only basketball die-hards.

This league will have a lot of work to do to stay afloat.
I find that hard to believe, I live in Newfoundland and have seen Rainmen commericals on tv in the past (on ASN/ATV or A and CTV now, I like the old names though) and a few of my friends who live in Halifax have gone to games even though they are nothing more than casual fans of the sport.

That aside, I really hope this league catches on. I think it would be great for the development of basketball in Canada. We really should be a better team internationally than we are, and we should be producing more NBA players. The only problem is, hockey is king in this country, and in most places its followed by football, and then baseball, soccer and basketball.

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08-22-2011, 12:49 PM
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To give an idea of what to expect, here is a list of minor league basketball leagues in the US - most financially challenged and unstable, but I'm surprised at the number which has popped up in the last 5 or 6 years.

Of these, only the old CBA, the NBA D-League, and maybe the WBA are minor league in the AHL/ECHL/lower sense - player development leagues for players who may move up to the NBA or overseas pro leagues.

American Basketball Association (2000-date): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...0%93present%29

Atlantic Coast Professional Basketball League (2010-date): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanti...ketball_League

Continental Basketball Association (1946-1999,1999-2001,2001-2009): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contine...ll_Association

- The CBA used to be a legitimate minor league (it is actually older than the NBA). It sent players on to the old ABA and NBA. It actually had agreements with the NBA in the 90's as a developmental league. Isaih Thomas bought the League in 1999 as a single entity league and pretty much destroyed it. It was revived post bankruptcy as a shell of it's former self and suspended operations in 2009.

Continental Basketball League (2010-date): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contine...ketball_League

Eastern Basketball Alliance (1996-date): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern...tball_Alliance

Independent Basketball Association (starting 2011): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indepen...ll_Association

International Basketball League (2005-date): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...ketball_League

National Athletic Basketball League (2010-date): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...ketball_League

NBA Development League (2001-date): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Development_League

Premier Basketball League (2008-date): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Basketball_League

United Basketball League (2006-date): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Basketball_League

World Basketball Association (2004-date): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_B...ll_Association

West Coast Pro Basketball League (2007-date): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Co...ketball_League

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08-22-2011, 10:23 PM
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billycanuck
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I went to a couple of Halifax Rainmen games last season and I enjoyed every game. The owner of the Rainmen and co-founder of the NBL, Andre Livingston, puts on a good show. My company was is one of the main sponsors of the Rainmen and comp tickets were snapped up whenever they were available. I think this league has the potential to work.

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08-22-2011, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawa666 View Post
Our Indy league team here in Québec doesn't have a ticket under 10$.
Indy leagues are a whole different animal. Those clubs have to pay their players, whereas minor league teams have their salaries covered by the Major League club and just pay basic operating costs. That's the only reason the Appalachian and Pioneer Leagues even exist.

At $20 apiece, Rainmen tickets are a bit steep, but if there's sizable demand, then that's still not too bad. I would imagine most places will be charging an average ticket price of $15 like Saint John does, which is enough to ensure profitability and still make it a good value for the consumer.

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08-23-2011, 08:04 PM
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I can't wait to see which players take their talents to PEI.
I, um..... man this is difficult. I have chosen to take my talents to Anne of Green Gables 'hood.

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08-24-2011, 12:19 AM
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DoyleG
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Indy leagues are a whole different animal. Those clubs have to pay their players, whereas minor league teams have their salaries covered by the Major League club and just pay basic operating costs. That's the only reason the Appalachian and Pioneer Leagues even exist.
A reserved ticket at an Edmonton Capitals game is $15. That's basically been the same since the days of AAA ball here in the city.

The way the league was structured was a deliberate way in order to make this work.

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10-24-2011, 11:37 AM
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optimus2861
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*bump*

I'll eat crow on my comments above re: the Halifax Rainmen. Driving near the Metro Centre yesterday after their preseason game ended, it was clear they'd gotten a good crowd. Lots of families with kids, too. I checked online and they drew nearly 8,500!

No worries about this franchise's viability. I guess I'm just completely out of the basketball loop!

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