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Old
08-22-2011, 02:04 PM
  #26
Eskimo44
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Gagner is 9 months older than Eberle,, yet scored at an almost identical ppg playing a harder position. His value is very underrated, he still has ppg potential. He was on pace for 50+ points this year and it's fair to say he should continue getting better year to year(which he has been so far). Coupled with team improvment, and a significant jump in points is very realistic. He keeps playing tougher matchups each year and improving all over the ice. Playing with two rookies in Paajarvi and Omark hurt his sats alot but he's already proven effective with good players. Has he carried a line yet? No, but how many 21 year old centers have in the past 10 years. The fact that he has been a solid contributor to effective lines is a very encouraging sign for a player still so young. Someone already stated it but his point production is already top 50 in the league for centers.

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Old
08-22-2011, 02:12 PM
  #27
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
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That 2nd would have to go the other way. And even then, management has been very happy with Eller's improvement. The kid's here to stay unless he's in a huge trade package.

Not bad, but no deal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Interesting. How about a two-for-two swap?



Lars Eller
Scott Gomez ($7,357,143 until 2013/14)



Sam Gagner
Shawn Horcoff ($5,500,000 until 2014/15)
LOL no.

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Old
08-22-2011, 02:33 PM
  #28
lakai17
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no from Edmonton.

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Old
08-22-2011, 02:43 PM
  #29
nyhabsfan
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You're gonna get homer based opinions.

Hab fans love the potential of Eller who by reports has ADDED 20lbs of muscle!
Oil fans think Gagner still has a lot of upside which is probably true.

So let's forget this one.

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Old
08-22-2011, 03:05 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
definitely not switch the picks and its better. Gagner is stagnating in 4 seasons, his first is still his best, if he has potential he needs to demonstrate it better,

Eller is more of an unknown but as time goes on Gagner's become more and more exposed, especially in the defensive areas
What? Gagner certainly is not stagnating, and his first season has not been his best. It was actually fairly underwhelming until the Cogliano-Nillson-Gagner line caught fire just after Christmas. Check out his points per game, much better in each of the past two seasons.

And I have to love the "Gagner is stagnating, Eller will be better" crowd. I'd love to know why anyone would think that? Gagner is quite a bit further ahead than Eller in every offensive aspect of the game. And he is younger, so people saying Eller has more room to grow are wrong too.

I'm not saying that Montreal should do the trade, Gagner's size just adds more tiny guys to the roster. Which is the same reason why the Oil would take the lesser player (Eller) in this deal, to get some size.

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Old
08-22-2011, 03:19 PM
  #31
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Gomez and a third for Gagner

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Old
08-22-2011, 03:20 PM
  #32
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Oilers pass on this one.

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Old
08-22-2011, 03:21 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Interesting. How about a two-for-two swap?



Lars Eller
Scott Gomez ($7,357,143 until 2013/14)



Sam Gagner
Shawn Horcoff ($5,500,000 until 2014/15)
Ugh, no thanks.

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Old
08-22-2011, 03:25 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Interesting. How about a two-for-two swap?



Lars Eller
Scott Gomez ($7,357,143 until 2013/14)



Sam Gagner
Shawn Horcoff ($5,500,000 until 2014/15)
Not even. At the end of next season Gomez's salary will go down to 5.5 and 4.5 in his final 2 years while still being at a 7.3 cap hit. He might be movable and he just cannot be any worse then last season, well I hope. Habs say no, and it doesn't help cause I really like Eller

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:07 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Interesting. How about a two-for-two swap?



Lars Eller
Scott Gomez ($7,357,143 until 2013/14)



Sam Gagner
Shawn Horcoff ($5,500,000 until 2014/15)
that would be a no-brainer from Montreal's pov.
save 2M in cap space while re-shuffling our C position in a way that leaves us with better balance.

I'm a big fan of Eller, and his upside, but living in western canada I've also seen enough of Gagner to believe that he has a lot of untapped potential as well.

looking at the stat lines of a 22 year old kid, and critisizing or doubting him b/c he's apparently 'stagnated' over 4 seasons is ridiculous... from his draft class, he's 2nd in pts scored & games played(after Kane), and while the oilers have been a pretty bad team all 4 years, it doesn't negate the fact that he's been a solid top9 NHLer @ 18, 19, 20, 21.

Eller and Gagner are the same age, but Gagner's "potential" is somehow less b/c he's been a regular NHLer for 4 years producing at a 48pts/82game clip, while Eller has a grand total of 19pts in 84 nhl games... makes no sense from a stat pov, and having watched both actually play, it makes even less sense from a current and projectable pov.

that said, given Eller's potential and his much smaller cap hit/greater RFA yrs remaining, I don't know that I'd support trading Eller+ for Gagner, and 1-for-1 it might not fly either given that Eller's style of game/projection is a better fit with the habs current C depth.

a Plekanec-Gagner-Horcoff centre group would be very solid/balanced over the next 3-4 seasons, and worth moving Eller/Gomez imo.

from Oilers pov, a Gomez-Eller-Belanger trio would be pretty solid short-term, and make it easier to give RHN some time to fill out before slotting him into a top-6 role.

RNH-Eller would be a great top-6 centre duo to build with long-term, and Eller's game would be a better complement to RNH than Gagner

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:13 PM
  #36
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Why would we trade a proven 40+ point player over 4 years for a guy who has done exactly sweet dick all at the pro level...ANY pro level. 57 points in 70 AHL games? Pass, I'll take the guy who scores 42 in 68 at the NHL level. Consistently, too.

Eller's a project to become a 2nd liner, POSSIBLY a 1st. Gagner's younger and has been a legit 2nd liner for 4 years. I'd hedge my bets on Gagner getting there before Eller, and if not, I'd still definitely rather have OUR 2nd round pick over Montreal's 4th.

Garbage trade proposal. Habs can keep Eller and hope that he becomes something comparable to Gagner. I'll keep Gagner and our 2nd, thank you very much.

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:15 PM
  #37
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As a Habs fan i have to pass on both offers. Not knocking Gagne but i rerally liked what i was seeing in Eller late in the season.
I believe that Eller will turn out to be a much better all around player than Gagne.

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:17 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
No thanks, Lars Eller was playing so well late in the year and we even have to give up a better pick? No way
yeah... pretty much this.

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:21 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Habs definitely say no. They give up the better pick and the player with the better future. Gagner won't amount to much at all.
Except hes already a solid second line center at the age of 22?

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:22 PM
  #40
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Thanks but... no thanks.

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:25 PM
  #41
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all this he played well late last year stuff still doesn't negate the fact that the oilers are giving up the better player for a player who even older and on a better team hasn't done anything gagner hasn't done in 1/2 a season

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:29 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers92 View Post
all this he played well late last year stuff still doesn't negate the fact that the oilers are giving up the better player for a player who even older and on a better team hasn't done anything gagner hasn't done in 1/2 a season
Then keep Gagner. Montreal doesn't pull the trigger on that one.

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:31 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers92 View Post
all this he played well late last year stuff still doesn't negate the fact that the oilers are giving up the better player for a player who even older and on a better team hasn't done anything gagner hasn't done in 1/2 a season
Not all players are the same .Some players hit their stride at different ages.
Yes he played on a better team but that took important ice time from him.
Had he played on a weak team like the Oilers he might have progressed at a faster clip.On the other hand it seems that Gagne has hit a brick wall in hid development.
We'll see what Eller accomplishes in the next two yrs.I think we Hab fans will be quite happy that we have Eller over Gagne.

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Old
08-22-2011, 04:51 PM
  #44
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Gagner was and is a second Line center cause He play in Edmonton ... Put him in a playoff team and He would be on The third Line !! He Still as potential ...

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Old
08-22-2011, 05:00 PM
  #45
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"no form the habs"

Such homers, and in Ivan's case, such haters.

Gagner might not have developed as well as we wanted him to but regardless of the picks, he's still heads-and-shoulders above Eller.

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Old
08-22-2011, 05:45 PM
  #46
A91
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No from edmonton Gagner's better than eller, id rather have gagner centering paajarvi and whoever else than eller

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Old
08-22-2011, 06:03 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
"no form the habs"

Such homers, and in Ivan's case, such haters.

Gagner might not have developed as well as we wanted him to but regardless of the picks, he's still heads-and-shoulders above Eller.
We've been waiting a long time for a centre that is 6'2 200lbs and not afraid to dig for pucks. Gagner would be a step backwards regardless of his skill.

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Old
08-22-2011, 06:11 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
You're gonna get homer based opinions.

Hab fans love the potential of Eller who by reports has ADDED 20lbs of muscle!
Oil fans think Gagner still has a lot of upside which is probably true.

So let's forget this one.
Basically this. It's a deal with fair value that just won't go over well with either side

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Old
08-22-2011, 06:18 PM
  #49
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Except hes already a solid second line center at the age of 22?
He's a 2nd liner on a ****** team.

If this trade were to happen, Eller would become the 2nd line centre, no ?

Eller being a 3rd line centre on a good team is somewhat equivalent to being a 2nd line centre on a bad team ?

Gagner is a right handed shot (iirc) which the habs need. He does have skill, but he's another small player. Eller fits the habs system, he's 6'2 and he was the main part in a big trade. I doubt Gauthier is looking to move Eller.

Would I be against getting Gagner ? No, but at the right cost. Which the cost for him is something Montréal, or rather I wouldn't want to pay.

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Old
08-22-2011, 06:37 PM
  #50
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Lol trading Gagner for Eller would be a downgrade on C. You could argue that Eller has more upside, but you cant really say that Gagner has peaked. Hes 22 Years old, and in the past 4 years, hes had 0.62, 0.53, 0.60, 0.61 PPG on a contuinuiously worse team, with no truly good linemates.

Lars Eller, also being 22 years old, hasn't shown much of anything offensively, but I could see why Habs fans dont want to trade him away, as they do luck size down the middle, and Eller could become a good 2 way player.

All in all this just doesnt seem to be a good fit for either team, as it just puts the Oilers rebuild behind a bit, and doesnt address any needs for Montreal.

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