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09-02-2011, 06:11 PM
  #51
A Pointed Stick
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Interesting points, but then I find myself asking...

Weren't the Wisniewski and Erhoff deals fair and pleasant attempts to swing that trade?

If not, isn't saying Snow has had "two years to swing the right trade, yet we have nothing to show for it" absolutely insuating that the right deal was there to be swung in the first place?

And is it good business or even wise to be signing players to bad contracts just because "everybody/competitors" are doing it?

I also have to ask why we insinuate that the 21 year old Tavares is unhappy enough with Moulson and Parenteau and the prospects of soon playing with Strome and Niederreiter, that his agent would have to say "Look at the type of inadequate players they're surrounding you with. No reason to resign here."?

The way I see it, spending wisely and saving money while giving younger players you believe in the ice time necessary to be a pinnacle for the winner in the long run simply shouldn't be equated with being cheap or uninterested in winning.

In addition, have we so little faith in Snow's track record to add or bind players who are on good contracts and contribute, that we don't think he'll do anything to shore up a blueline that could use more solid depth - even though he's on record as saying he's going to do so?

Parenteau is on a one year contract. He could be traded around the deadline. He could repeat. He could be nothing but a decent pulse on one of the PP units. He could blow away our expectations. He could see himself drop down the totem pole by guys simply outperforming him.

In any case, I'm thinking this club has him here as a placeholder who earned another shot after his best pro season.
Fair questions, hopefully the answers are fair as well.

Wisniewski & Erhoff - One was a trade of a 3rd that failed in Wisniewski. Chalk that up to poor player evaluation. That Garth managed a good return when the JW experiment failed is points for Garth. Erhoff on the other hand wasn't a trade, and it is arguable he wouldn't come here even if we matched terms or paid more than his eventual contract elsewhere. Question: How many more years at this pace (not getting what the club needs) would be acceptable to you before you call foul?

On Tavares, Moulson, Parentau, Strome, & Nino': Moulson would work if you had a real 1st line wing on the other side. Parentau is the real weak link here, and I'd argue he is hurting Moulson as well. Strome is years away from being a qualified first line wing, and Nino might be one, two years from now, or more. How many of John's career stats (from both a selfish angle, and unselfish angle) get dumbed down waiting for that to occur? What happens when a legitimate club comes knocking offering real first line material to play with and a blue line that isn't a hodge-podge of B rated players, projects, and prospects still a few years from earning true top 4 status? Each year is a resume tick point for Tavares for his next contract. Those years are not meaningless fodder for just the club.

On Snow, I don't have a big axe to grind with him. His hands are greatly tied by the owner. If anything, I feel bad for him. He has to lie about having an open checkbook while band-aiding his club together. I hope Snow finds the blueline piece they are missing. I am not encouraged though due to the budget issus, and the unwillingness to move a prospect of value.

On bad contracts, making a trade for a bad contract for a quality defenseman would get us there. We just took on a horrendous contract in an aging Rolston. I watched him last year. I hope I caught all of his no effort/bad games, because I remember, vividly, thinking how much of a non factor he was when he took his foot off the gas. I'd rather not have him, and have Bouwmeester with all his warts. If Jay isn't your cup of tea, and I respect your right to dislike his Pace-unimpressive game, then insert someone more to your liking.

Parenteau - Unless he gains 4 inches, another 20 lbs of muscle, and an entitled attitude I wouldn't expect too much more. That's forgiving his defensive and offensive warts too.

Two questions for you: How long is the club held hostage by an arena deal (or sold, like Peg)? How long do you as a high end young player wait for the team salary to rise (meaning, more support via the addition of players that cost more than table scraps)? Do you see my concern in this?


Last edited by A Pointed Stick: 09-02-2011 at 06:27 PM.
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Old
09-02-2011, 06:28 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by jerseyislander22 View Post
I'm sorry but no one here on a message board knows anything about what goes on between managment, between agents and players and between GMS throughout the league. There is no harsh reality here, its all just witty worded assumptions.
Your contention is also an assumption, but I am betting you don't even realize it.

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Old
09-02-2011, 07:28 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Wisniewski & Erhoff - One was a trade of a 3rd that failed in Wisniewski. Chalk that up to poor player evaluation. That Garth managed a good return when the JW experiment failed is points for Garth. Erhoff on the other hand wasn't a trade, and it is arguable he wouldn't come here even if we matched terms or paid more than his eventual contract elsewhere. Question: How many more years at this pace (not getting what the club needs) would be acceptable to you before you call foul?
Well, technically, we did trade for Erhoff - or at least his rights. A draft pick went to Vancouver in the process. One asset was moved for another.

We then offered more than fair market value. He declined. Buffalo gave him a contract that, well, the businessman in me says is INSANE, but I digress...

I felt Wisniewski was a wonderful move and although Snow obviously felt he wasn't an answer for this team - or at least that a guy like Hamonic could already assume his minutes - we are talking about a Dman who had a career year and just got a HUGE contract to go be the answer elsewhere. I didn't like his defensive play, but he produced very well for us and continued doing it in Montreal.

I don't care for the fact that Hillen and Martinek have in no way been replaced. I like both better than Mottau - for sure. Then again, the team will see where Wishart is and Reese is a good soldier as a depth Dman. Maybe they really feel de Haan can make here as quickly as Hamonic has? To be continued...

As for your question, if this team goes through the next season much like last despite Streit and Okposo, with a considerably better man-games-lost to injury statistic and with the type of goaltending Poulin and Montoya offered in their few starts throughout most of the season, then I'll be at odds to figure out what the next step should be. In general, I feel we should patiently continue onwards because I 'believe in' the possibilities that our drafted players have and the development we've seen in the guys on the Island. I believe in Tavares, MacDonald, Hamonic, Nielsen, Comeau, Grabner, Okposo, Martin and even Bailey to right the ship on the ice. I believe the answer lies in them. I see no less than two of Niederreiter, Strome, Kabanov, Cizikas, Lee and even Petrov being high-impact forwards. I fully believe several of the Dmen who'll be in the AHL this year are future regulars in the NHL.

I also believe in Snow's ability and Wang's readiness to pay to keep these guys. We've seen it in Okposo, Moulson and Grabner. We saw incredible deals to wrap up Nielsen and then MacDonald respectively for four years. Comeau has received a considerable, but fair raise.

I do not fear this team not ponying up for the guys it believes in over the long run.

Quote:
On Tavares, Moulson, Parentau, Strome, & Nino': Moulson would work if you had a real 1st line wing on the other side. Parentau is the real weak link here, and I'd argue he is hurting Moulson as well.
I think PA's got enough chemistry to work with them that if you're plan is to have not two, but three lines that offer an offensive threat, he's fine there for now. What I was alluding to in the last post is that he's NOT a long-term answer.

I understand that you're alluding to the team should have a better placeholder.

He's a financially sound solution who would be easy to replace from within if certain guys are ready and even a guy the team can pawn off easily along the way.

I think he showed enough last season to get another chance right where he's at because a guy 'can' improve, even in his late 20s.

If Snow had added a more proven winger at a fair price to replace him, I'd have had little problem with it, as long as it was a sound move (i.e. not a Kovalev or Zherdev).

Quote:
How many of John's career stats (from both a selfish angle, and unselfish angle) get dumbed down waiting for that to occur? What happens when a legitimate club comes knocking offering real first line material to play with and a blue line that isn't a hodge-podge of B rated players, projects, and prospects still a few years from earning true top 4 status? Each year is a resume tick point for Tavares for his next contract. Those years are not meaningless fodder for just the club.
Then we fans will just have to pray that his talk of believing in this team and wanting to spearhead its movement into legitimacy is not just BS.

I think he truly, genuinely enjoys playing with Moulson.

There could be reason for concern if this season ends up being a disaster - which could happen simply if injuries are anything close to what they were last season.

Quote:
On bad contracts, making a trade for a bad contract for a quality defenseman would get us there. We just took on a horrendous contract in an aging Rolston.
The good thing about Rolston is that
A) He picked up his game immensely once Lemaire returned to the bench. He contributed 12-16-28 in the last 40 games and played important minutes.
B) He fits in nicely as a Weight replacement and has a wealth of experience - in the NHL and internationally. He is a committed pro.
C) His one year of a poor contract was gained by dishing off two years of a contract for a player the team knew no longer had a role here. At the end of the day, we took on 1.4 million extra for a guy who'll actually play and fill a leadership role in a locker room that desperately needs him for that. They are only committed to him for one year.
D) Obviously, we knew we'd be giving SOMEBODY some money in order to inch our way to the salary cap. Losing an unwanted contract in the process was sensible.

Quote:
I'd rather not have him, and have Bouwmeester with all his warts. If Jay isn't your cup of tea, and I respect your right to dislike his Pace-unimpressive game, then insert someone more to your liking.
Bouwmeester really isn't. Correction - I LOVE his physical abilities. I do not believe he'll EVER be a winner. And true, I don't believe you pay a guy 6.8 million for 25-30 points and a minus rating to play for a loaded team he should be guiding into the playoffs. As such, I believe even less in sending away good assets to GET that player.

At the moment, I really wouldn't mind adding a guy like Gilbert or Robidas, if the price is right. I'd have really liked Sekera if he had been reasonably available. I do not see any UFA I like. Several would help, but there are about 5 or 6 Dmen who I do not think will survive their team's camps due to financial issues.

Otherwise, I'm fully assuming Snow will see what our guys do at camp and see where they're at before he then snags someone on the post-camp waiver wire.

Quote:
Two questions for you: How long is the club held hostage by an arena deal (or sold, like Peg)? How long do you as a high end young player wait for the team salary to rise (meaning, more support via the addition of players that cost more than table scraps)? Do you see my concern in this?
Heyyyy, that's three questions!

1) I feel Wang has been very reasonable in attempting to create a new facility for this team. It's the politicians who must decide if they will allow for any owner to successfully and profitably keep the Isles on Long Island. Wang is hostage until 2015 - and thus, so are we fans.

2) I don't think Tavares describes the future of the team by the payroll. If he has bought into the idea and concept Snow has certainly spent gobs of time telling/convincing him about, then the lack of high-priced players who could at least help in the marketing department is irrelevant. He'll only want good players who he can work with, whether they come from within or off the scrap heap. Or would you have been happier with sayyyyy higher profile, more expensive Frolov and Ponikarovsky over the cheaper, higher producing Moulson and Parenteau? Adding established, expensive players is also a two-edged sword and again, the team HAS attempted to add Erhoff, Hamhuis and Kovalchuk recently. It's not like Snow has completely avoided the higher profile guys in favor of maintaining the lowest cap-meeting budget possible.

3) I see your concern. You're certainly not alone with it. I'm just excited about the many players here who gave us reason to believer last season. I know it's seldom an overnight process, so it's great to have watched a number of the guys turning into solid NHLers with a hunger to win.

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09-02-2011, 08:58 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
I know it's seldom an overnight process, so it's great to have watched a number of the guys turning into solid NHLers with a hunger to win.
what an excellent read Chapin - nicely done!

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09-03-2011, 02:32 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Well, technically, we did trade for Erhoff - or at least his rights. A draft pick went to Vancouver in the process. One asset was moved for another.

We then offered more than fair market value. He declined. Buffalo gave him a contract that, well, the businessman in me says is INSANE, but I digress...
He passed during free agency, so The insane pickups I can live without too provided they make the trade that needs to be made. There is time. Most of it has run out. On Wisniewski I like my defenseman to be good defensively first, good at everything and anything else second. I hoped for more from him too, but he failed. Losing Martinek without a replacement to me says they see the need to move past injury prone players. I am ok with that. If CdH takes his spot (in theory) then I am not ok with that. I don't need 100 hrs of CdH highlight reels to go there either, and assume you agree on that. Same for Reese or any other Bridge level players.

Quote:
As for your question, if this team goes through the next season much like last despite Streit and Okposo, with a considerably better man-games-lost to injury statistic and with the type of goaltending Poulin and Montoya offered in their few starts throughout most of the season, then I'll be at odds to figure out what the next step should be. In general, I feel we should patiently continue onwards because I 'believe in' the possibilities that our drafted players have and the development we've seen in the guys on the Island. I believe in Tavares, MacDonald, Hamonic, Nielsen, Comeau, Grabner, Okposo, Martin and even Bailey to right the ship on the ice. I believe the answer lies in them. I see no less than two of Niederreiter, Strome, Kabanov, Cizikas, Lee and even Petrov being high-impact forwards. I fully believe several of the Dmen who'll be in the AHL this year are future regulars in the NHL.
Jumping to the bolded, the question is "when?" Hamonic is in an acceptable curve for the club so no argument from me there. After that, the next guy is CdH as far as expected top 4. I don't want to be dramatic, but please feel free to light my screen name on fire if he exceeds the following prediction: CdH will not play at the level of an honest to goodness top 4 player before a minimum of three seasons have passed. He will see full time duty no earlier than next season (2012-13), and if he eats his Wheaties, trains like Armstrong, and avoids cutting body parts off while doing yard work has a 10% chance of being a real second pairing defenseman at some point of the 2013-14 season. This prediction is made after having spent gobs of time over the past several decades observing the typical progression of good defensemen. The other defensemen... I expect less. Hence, we need help now from one more top 4 level blueliner or the entire team will continue to struggle.

As far as injuries go I hope it was/is the ice, the training staff, or something they can improve on because their MLD's are an OSHA record.

Quote:
I also believe in Snow's ability and Wang's readiness to pay to keep these guys. We've seen it in Okposo, Moulson and Grabner. We saw incredible deals to wrap up Nielsen and then MacDonald respectively for four years. Comeau has received a considerable, but fair raise.
Until it became an issue, we never saw Wang as he is now. I do agree he will retain these guys provided the ultimate team cap does not go much over the floor. That he back loaded the last set of contracts makes me concerned (or really happy) that he will sell in the next 5 years if he doesn't get a financially good arena deal done. However, I look at the current salary, and it is proof in black and white as to where he will spend to. It is inarguable. It is what the number says it is. He won't spend more even though young players on the club are moving into a point in their development where having B, C, and F level talent to lean on is going to hold back the ceiling of their development. Or do you see the surrounding cast as better than that? I don't, particularly on defense, and defense is critical to everything involving the offense.

Quote:
I think PA's got enough chemistry to work with them that if you're plan is to have not two, but three lines that offer an offensive threat, he's fine there for now. What I was alluding to in the last post is that he's NOT a long-term answer.
Put PA on the second scoring unit and I stop complaining. Let's talk more game to game as we watch him support or impede JT. I am a big believer in real time examples. I also am not a big fan of half measure long shots like hoping Zherdev or Frolov will find their heart with him so we agree there, but even from a physical level PAP is a big fail, for the first line anyway.

Quote:
Then we fans will just have to pray that his talk of believing in this team and wanting to spearhead its movement into legitimacy is not just BS.
Every passing year becomes evidence one way or the other. We wait and watch.

Quote:
The good thing about Rolston is that
A) He picked up his game immensely once Lemaire returned to the bench. He contributed 12-16-28 in the last 40 games and played important minutes.
B) He fits in nicely as a Weight replacement and has a wealth of experience - in the NHL and internationally. He is a committed pro.
C) His one year of a poor contract was gained by dishing off two years of a contract for a player the team knew no longer had a role here. At the end of the day, we took on 1.4 million extra for a guy who'll actually play and fill a leadership role in a locker room that desperately needs him for that. They are only committed to him for one year.
D) Obviously, we knew we'd be giving SOMEBODY some money in order to inch our way to the salary cap. Losing an unwanted contract in the process was sensible.
Moving Hunter was good. No argument there. Rolston though? Again, I watched some Devil's games and he was a tourist in each of them. I may have seen only his bad games, so we will see.

Unfortunately I have to split for a family thing so the rest will have to wait. Thanks for the adult conversation though. I hope others on here choose to try this as it beats flaming conversations. I get those from my wife and frankly, don't want any more.

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09-03-2011, 06:01 PM
  #56
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Continued...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Bouwmeester really isn't. Correction - I LOVE his physical abilities. I do not believe he'll EVER be a winner. And true, I don't believe you pay a guy 6.8 million for 25-30 points and a minus rating to play for a loaded team he should be guiding into the playoffs. As such, I believe even less in sending away good assets to GET that player.
Anyone trading for Jbow should be in the driver's seat so we could argue about the cost as much as you want, it is a separate issue. "Would he be much better than Eaton, Jurcina, CdH, and the Bridgeport fodder?" Heh, yeah, by a lot too. He also is durable which is worth something on the Island of Torn Groins & Hammies. That's my first concern. I see people talking about bringing McCabe back because he'd be better than X. Well, Bouwmeester is at least better than McCabe. On Gilbert, Robidas, etc... I agree. I'd like to see them do that.

Quote:
1) I feel Wang has been very reasonable in attempting to create a new facility for this team. It's the politicians who must decide if they will allow for any owner to successfully and profitably keep the Isles on Long Island. Wang is hostage until 2015 - and thus, so are we fans.
I don't blame Wang for that. I sympathize with him, and hope he gets what he needs. I don't excuse him for leaving his players hanging with a half good/half garbage support structure. You get one kick at the can of developing guys like JT, wasting it for any excuse is still wasting it. he has a responsibility to keep this club healthy as an owner, IMO of course. Other wise he should sell. If you can't agree with me that's ok. We can agree to disagree. I won't change my mind on that though.

Quote:
2) I don't think Tavares describes the future of the team by the payroll. If he has bought into the idea and concept Snow has certainly spent gobs of time telling/convincing him about, then the lack of high-priced players who could at least help in the marketing department is irrelevant. He'll only want good players who he can work with, whether they come from within or off the scrap heap...
Payroll describes our hope. You don't go far into the playoffs without spending. Can you spend poorly? Yes. But if you don't spend at all these days, you don't go anywhere either. I believe Wang finally has someone who can help him spend wisely in Snow, unlike when he had Milbury who couldn't draw a straight line between two points with the help of the Army Corps of Eng. As long as the owner respected his own ignorance and stayed out of contract negotiations I think they'd do ok.

Quote:
3) I see your concern. You're certainly not alone with it. I'm just excited about the many players here who gave us reason to believer last season. I know it's seldom an overnight process, so it's great to have watched a number of the guys turning into solid NHLers with a hunger to win.
I still look forward to the evolution of Grabner, John, Hamonic, Martin, and now Montoya who is a nice Cinderella story, etc. I just really hate seeing the points left on the table by having such a vanilla support structure around them, particularly who is supposedly supporting John. Moulson, for as much as I admire what he has done despite the odds, goes through his own struggles and droughts if you didn't notice. Tavares, an insane scoring leader all his life, is basically at the mercy of the two guys around him, and whatever is playing on the buleline at the time. What kind of production does he realize with even an average cast around him? I sure hope Rolston isn't their answer to that question, though wait and see... I bet you he plays with John more than a few games. I also bet we see some games from Rolston where you get very unimpressed. When he is on vacation on the ice... you could say he suffers from a lack of passion, spelled with a silent Y.

One other question for you and everyone. If there was no cap floor imposed by the league, where do you think the salary for the team would be? It is a dirty question, no?


Last edited by A Pointed Stick: 09-03-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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Old
09-04-2011, 06:01 AM
  #57
Chapin Landvogt
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what an excellent read Chapin - nicely done!
Very kind of you to write Redbull.

Writing it kind of reminded me just HOW excited I am about the upcoming season!

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09-04-2011, 07:06 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
He passed during free agency, so The insane pickups I can live without too provided they make the trade that needs to be made. There is time. Most of it has run out. On Wisniewski I like my defenseman to be good defensively first, good at everything and anything else second. I hoped for more from him too, but he failed. Losing Martinek without a replacement to me says they see the need to move past injury prone players. I am ok with that. If CdH takes his spot (in theory) then I am not ok with that. I don't need 100 hrs of CdH highlight reels to go there either, and assume you agree on that. Same for Reese or any other Bridge level players.
Agree with this except for 'He passed during free agency'. Snow actually pawned him off to Buffalo for a 2nd (thus replacing what he sent to Vancouver) like 36 hours before he became a UFA. Then Buffalo gave him that contract...

He actually never hit free agency.

Quote:
CdH will not play at the level of an honest to goodness top 4 player before a minimum of three seasons have passed. He will see full time duty no earlier than next season (2012-13), and if he eats his Wheaties, trains like Armstrong, and avoids cutting body parts off while doing yard work has a 10% chance of being a real second pairing defenseman at some point of the 2013-14 season. This prediction is made after having spent gobs of time over the past several decades observing the typical progression of good defensemen. The other defensemen... I expect less. Hence, we need help now from one more top 4 level blueliner or the entire team will continue to struggle.
I fully agree with you about Calvin. I do not think he'll have the exceptional progression rate we've seen with Hamonic, who has been, well, above the curve. Hopefully, he's the exceptional kid we think he is and his progression to top-flight NHLer continues.

I was never happy with the moves made to get de Haan at 12. I think the staff or Jankowski or just Snow 'illogically' fell in love with him while scouting for that 28th pick. There were other comparable Dmen available with the picks we had later. I point to Elliot and Olson as a few examples, but I digress.

He's done some nice things, but hasn't blown anyone away. He continues to be a work-in-progress. May he one day be a top-flight two-way Dman. It doesn't look like he'll be much of a goal-scoring threat, but he has time. He is highly respected as a prospect/asset, so hopefully that's a good indication of how 'certain' his future as an NHLer is.

As for the rest, I'll say the following:
- I actually, really believe Donovan is on his way to becoming a Christian Erhoff type. I believe that's the guy he'll develop into.
- Klementyev may just actually end up being a rougher Jurcina type, with a little less offensive acumen.
- Mayfield is a project - no doubt - but if the tools come together, I haven't seen many guys with his size still be that mobile. When the head and hands catch up, watch out!
- To me, Katic can easily be a depth Dman in the Freddy Meyer mold.
- My personal fave in the group: Pedan. He had some bumps in adjusting to the North American game, was big in the playoffs and generally showed real snarl and fighting ability. What separates him is the skating. Very mobile for a kid his size and I predict he'll have a BIG year in the OHL this season.

Quote:
As far as injuries go I hope it was/is the ice, the training staff, or something they can improve on because their MLD's are an OSHA record.
One has to think the ice plays a role. They've already switched out the training staff. The injuries still mount up.

Quote:
He won't spend more even though young players on the club are moving into a point in their development where having B, C, and F level talent to lean on is going to hold back the ceiling of their development. Or do you see the surrounding cast as better than that? I don't, particularly on defense, and defense is critical to everything involving the offense.
Two things
A) I doubt Wang sells. If 2015 comes and the politics haven't led to a new building, he moves - preferably locally. Even if he would look to sell, no-one in his right mind would buy seeing the stonewalling of a new venue.
B) I believe what we'll continue seeing the team resign its key kids and only add players from the outside who look like 'sly', 'sensible' moves. Either we get low-profile guys la Eaton, Jurcina and Mottau or we'll sign fringe guys like Moulson and Parenteau. The waiver wire has produced Schremp and Grabner and we have every reason to believe it'll be a route again this year. Quite frankly, Snow has quite a nice recent track record in that department.

I might share heavier criticism for this had Snow not gone after Erhoff, Hamhuis and Kovalchuk the past two summers. I see him as reaching for the stars or going under the radar - and I like that approach for this team at this juncture, but that's just me.

We make the playoffs or barely miss out at 9th/10th, then I'll be hoping for one or two major additions from the outside.

Quote:
Put PA on the second scoring unit and I stop complaining. Let's talk more game to game as we watch him support or impede JT. I am a big believer in real time examples.
I feel like JT and Moulson generally don't mind being with PA, who had some poor play at times. Technically, the price/performance ratio was pretty good, especially when you see how many highly paid scoring forwards around the NHL didn't hit 50 points.

I personally would like to see Okposo remain on the Nielsen line for now. Parenteau might also work with Comeau and Bailey. Don't know if Rolston would be a good solution with JT, a thought you visited in the last post. I think the thought is that JT should have a righty shooting right wing.

Quote:
Rolston though? Again, I watched some Devil's games and he was a tourist in each of them. I may have seen only his bad games, so we will see.
Well, we know he had a MUCH better second half than first half. We can only hope he brings that 2nd half play with him. In light of the dynamics of the trade, I think it's a good gamble by Snow. If someone else in the system REALLY arrives on the scene (a Niederreiter or even Rakhshani), I'd have to think a Martin-Reasoner-Rolston 4th line is as good a 4th as a team could have.

Quote:
Anyone trading for Jbow should be in the driver's seat so we could argue about the cost as much as you want, it is a separate issue. "Would he be much better than Eaton, Jurcina, CdH, and the Bridgeport fodder?" Heh, yeah, by a lot too. He also is durable which is worth something on the Island of Torn Groins & Hammies.
The longevity is a good point. I guess it would come down to the price in the trade. After moving Regehr, it doesn't look like Calgary has any intent to move Bouwmeester, despite his underwhelming output and price/performance ratio.

If they were to be desperate to move his contract and would see it as a salary dump (say for Mottau and a 4th rounder), I'd have no problem with the added salary, because he'd definitely be an upgrade - all things considered.

As I understand it, he has an NTC and I can't fathom him waiving it to come to the Island.

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I still look forward to the evolution of Grabner, John, Hamonic, Martin, and now Montoya who is a nice Cinderella story, etc. I just really hate seeing the points left on the table by having such a vanilla support structure around them, particularly who is supposedly supporting John. Moulson, for as much as I admire what he has done despite the odds, goes through his own struggles and droughts if you didn't notice.
One could see it a little differently. I think JT is a guy who likes to do a lot on his own. He carries the puck, he makes moves, his corner work has already improved in leaps and bounds. He likes to charge to the net or find guys around the net. Moulson is good for that.

In addition, JT doesn't have the pressure of 'having' to feed the puck to higher profile wingers. That can possibly be a burden.

He has free reign, so to speak. Maybe this is something that allows him to do his thing and develop at his own pace?

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One other question for you and everyone. If there was no cap floor imposed by the league, where do you think the salary for the team would be? It is a dirty question, no?
Due to the reasons listed above, I think it would be right about where it is. Sign key players the team plans with over the long run and add 'support' players at fair deals or even on the cheap. I don't believe the idea is just to be at the cap floor, whatever the league would set it at.

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Thanks for the adult conversation though.
No problem! Have enjoyed it too.

A little off track from the thread topic at times, but a key issue surrounding this team.

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Old
09-05-2011, 05:39 PM
  #59
A Pointed Stick
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
He actually never hit free agency.
True.
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I was never happy with the moves made to get de Haan at 12. I think the staff or Jankowski or just Snow 'illogically' fell in love with him while scouting for that 28th pick.
I agree, and was unhappy as well. He's friends with Tavares if I recall, so it may be tied to that as well? My biggest fear is that series of moves coming back to haunt the club. That, and being sat on by a 500 lb Latvian named Olga.

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Due to the reasons listed above, I think [the team salary] would be right about where it is. Sign key players the team plans with over the long run and add 'support' players at fair deals or even on the cheap. I don't believe the idea is just to be at the cap floor, whatever the league would set it at.
One piece of evidence I would hold against this is the inclusion of Rick in the lineup. It seems pretty clear that he is done, and a normal club would send him to the Bridge or buy him out or whatever. IMO, one reason they keep him around is he helps them meet the floor.

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Old
09-06-2011, 08:57 AM
  #60
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
One piece of evidence I would hold against this is the inclusion of Rick in the lineup. It seems pretty clear that he is done, and a normal club would send him to the Bridge or buy him out or whatever. IMO, one reason they keep him around is he helps them meet the floor.
I have no answers here.

I don't think it's sensicle to just buy out 8 or 9 years worth of a contract, especially on top of the dough that's already going to Yashin. That buyout money would however count against the cap - in our case, thankfully.

It also does nothing for the development of no less than Koskinen and one of Nilsson/Poulin to have Dipietro with them on the farm. His presence would roadblock their development and heck, they may already be looking at another 3-way jam down there.

The team is simply in a bind with respect to Ricky. One can only hope that he somehow regains above-average NHL form. I don't see it coming. He don't have that injury history and come back to be a top-flight goaltender.

The best for everyone would seem to be that he is forced by 'sports invalidity' to retire. That saves a buyout and clears his spot. They could happily give him a position in the organization, which would likely come one way or the other because of Wang's supposed ties to Ricky.

But unless that happens, the only other logical thing I see here is that he sticks around on the Island and gets the odd start or so as a no. 2/3 goalie.

As things are, we still don't know what will play out with Nabakov and if Montoya can pick up where he left off. They certainly didn't resign Al thinking he can just go down with the others in BPort. Of course, he still has much to prove himself.

For success in the upcoming season, Nabakov theoretically has the best upside.

Gonna be real interesting to see how this plays out, but the team has HAD to plan as though Ricky will not be able to play. We know where Nabakov came from and honestly, the team HAD to plan as though he'd not be coming to camp. Montoya came in and did real well and he is a safety signing.

Poulin was injured, Koskinen had a rough ride of it last year. Nilsson needed to be signed and would only sign if the team brought him to NA. He may be the best of them all.

Lots of depth and options. Tough decisions are to follow.

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