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09-09-2011, 08:38 AM
  #201
MrJoshua
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
You and me seem to be the only ones left who still think highly of O'Reilly. I guess the biggest concern for him would be if his numbers from last season were from the result of playing with Sullivan. But I think he can establish himself as a solid #2 center.

That being said, if Turris was on the table, you have to take the gamble on him.
I think Wilson is on the verge of being thrown under the bus by the general fanbase too, based on the number of times I've seen his name in trade proposals lately. He can sit under the bus with O'Reilly and talk about hockey, I guess. I've never understood how that works. O'Reilly and Wilson are probably among the top five most offensively-talented players on the team (below Erat and Kostitsyn, and probably about on a par with Legwand). They have the talent; they just haven't managed to put it together yet. I think this is the year they both take a big step forward. O'Reilly was poised to do so last year until he broke his leg, but I think he'll be back on track this year and Wilson being in his third season with the team should be ready to step up a notch as well.

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09-09-2011, 09:10 AM
  #202
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I think Wilson is on the verge of being thrown under the bus by the general fanbase too, based on the number of times I've seen his name in trade proposals lately. He can sit under the bus with O'Reilly and talk about hockey, I guess. I've never understood how that works. O'Reilly and Wilson are probably among the top five most offensively-talented players on the team (below Erat and Kostitsyn, and probably about on a par with Legwand). They have the talent; they just haven't managed to put it together yet. I think this is the year they both take a big step forward. O'Reilly was poised to do so last year until he broke his leg, but I think he'll be back on track this year and Wilson being in his third season with the team should be ready to step up a notch as well.
I think a lot of the questions around Wilson are less about his ability and more about attitude\maturity. He comes off as a cocky brat(standing in the press box waving your towel when your name is announced as a healthy scratch in the playoffs doesn't help that, btw) and whether or not he can "buy in" to what Trotz wants.

O'Reilly has skill...no doubt...but for someone who relies so much on playmaking and needing time and space, he is SUPER soft on the puck. People point out that he broke his leg int he middle of a breakout season, but they neglect the wall he had hit prior to that, going scoreless for 12 straight games and looking generally useless out there.

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09-09-2011, 09:58 AM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I think a lot of the questions around Wilson are less about his ability and more about attitude\maturity. He comes off as a cocky brat(standing in the press box waving your towel when your name is announced as a healthy scratch in the playoffs doesn't help that, btw) and whether or not he can "buy in" to what Trotz wants.

O'Reilly has skill...no doubt...but for someone who relies so much on playmaking and needing time and space, he is SUPER soft on the puck. People point out that he broke his leg int he middle of a breakout season, but they neglect the wall he had hit prior to that, going scoreless for 12 straight games and looking generally useless out there.
Totally agree on Wilson. He's talented, but until he gets past his ego and buys into a team concept...he's not going to realize the full potential of his talents. Wilson has largely gotten by on his skill up to this level. However, in the NHL you need to utilize and work with your teammates in order to showcase your skills. I thought Wilson was much better in doing that upon returning to the lineup last season in the second round, but he's gotta take that lesson, and make sure that he plays that same game for the full year this season in order to excel. Being a contract year for Wilson, I'm hoping he sees the light...

As for O'Reilly, I think he has a dynamic skill with his playmaking ability. However, as you said, thus far his success at the NHL level has come while attached to Steve Sullivan's hip and once Sully went out last year...Cal struggled mightily before breaking his leg. I think Cal can have a very long NHL career, but this is an important year for him to breakthrough and show that he can elevate the games of others around him as opposed to relying on a veteran to lead the way. Cal is smart, driven, and after spending over half the season in the press box watching the team and rehabbing, I'm sure he'll be motivated...

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09-09-2011, 10:03 AM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I think a lot of the questions around Wilson are less about his ability and more about attitude\maturity. He comes off as a cocky brat(standing in the press box waving your towel when your name is announced as a healthy scratch in the playoffs doesn't help that, btw) and whether or not he can "buy in" to what Trotz wants.

O'Reilly has skill...no doubt...but for someone who relies so much on playmaking and needing time and space, he is SUPER soft on the puck. People point out that he broke his leg int he middle of a breakout season, but they neglect the wall he had hit prior to that, going scoreless for 12 straight games and looking generally useless out there.
This is why I have been calling for wilson to be traded. I am not sure he can turn it around. This season is critical for this team. We can't afford to take a step back.

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09-09-2011, 11:05 AM
  #205
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Ryan Suterwent throught the same thing but didn't see the pressure on him like it is on Wilson. Wilson has only played two seasons and he's under this kind of scrutiny. Sure he's a kid and kids get attitude that is not unusal that doesn't mean he won't get it. Now if were having this conversation at the end of this season then we have concerns. If we are going to go with the kids you have the growing pains that is a part of the process. We seem to have this with our offense players more than our defensive players because we count goals on offensive. Not everybody is going to be a Stamkos and put up monster numbers from the get go so we have to be somewhat patient.

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09-09-2011, 11:27 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
Ryan Suterwent throught the same thing but didn't see the pressure on him like it is on Wilson. Wilson has only played two seasons and he's under this kind of scrutiny. Sure he's a kid and kids get attitude that is not unusal that doesn't mean he won't get it. Now if were having this conversation at the end of this season then we have concerns. If we are going to go with the kids you have the growing pains that is a part of the process. We seem to have this with our offense players more than our defensive players because we count goals on offensive. Not everybody is going to be a Stamkos and put up monster numbers from the get go so we have to be somewhat patient.
No, the difference is with a defenseman as skilled as Suter is, when he's not realizing the full potential of his skill, he's still contributing to the team. Wilson on the other hand has been totally invisible when he's not contributing. That's why Wilson is being scrutinized...

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09-09-2011, 12:06 PM
  #207
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Another difference between Suter and Wilson is that, as a defenseman, Suter was one in a line of highly touted guys. Allbeit, very highly touted, there was a sense of "next man up" with Suter.

With Wilson, especially with the hype of trading up to get him and our lack of foward prospects that project as anything higher than a 3rd line grinder, I think alot of people we're looking at him as the answer to our scoring woes. Aside from Radulov, have we ever had a forward prospect as highly touted as Wilson?

Right or wrong, there's an expectation that Wilson could be a big time scorer for us, and the longer it takes (if he even becomes that), the pressure is going to increase.

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Old
09-09-2011, 12:17 PM
  #208
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I hear in my own circle of hockey sources that the Preds are talking to the Avs, I think you guys are targeting Stastny but I have no idea what would be going back.

If the Avs move Stastny they're basically giving 1st overall pick to WSH. Nonetheless, just sharing what I hear.

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09-09-2011, 12:56 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Winroba View Post
I hear in my own circle of hockey sources that the Preds are talking to the Avs, I think you guys are targeting Stastny but I have no idea what would be going back.

If the Avs move Stastny they're basically giving 1st overall pick to WSH. Nonetheless, just sharing what I hear.
Here's to hoping those sources are correct. Though...I just can't see the Avs moving Stastny for anything less than a boatload.

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Old
09-09-2011, 01:03 PM
  #210
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Here's to hoping those sources are correct. Though...I just can't see the Avs moving Stastny for anything less than a boatload.
Hopefully it isn't just hockey break, cause that guy's junk. If the rumored trade is Suter for Stastny, then I hope it isn't true. Unless, of course, Suter refuses to sign for some reason.

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09-09-2011, 01:10 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Broom of the System View Post
Hopefully it isn't just hockey break, cause that guy's junk. If the rumored trade is Suter for Stastny, then I hope it isn't true. Unless, of course, Suter refuses to sign for some reason.
It's not hockey break, I can't say who but I'm very familiar with some scouts within the Canucks organization and scouts talk to each other.

They have proven to me that they are believable before and I trust them.

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09-09-2011, 01:18 PM
  #212
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I'm fine with Suter for Stastny. I'd prefer a little something extra from Colorado, but on the premise I think it's a good deal.

IMO, Suter will be the hardest to re-sign of our Big 3 and is the easier of the two (Weber - Suter) to be replaced from within. It'll hurt, no doubt about it, but if that deal is presented and Poile agrees with my assessment, I think it's a move you make now so that the team doesn't have to shift gears midseason.

I remember specifically being in the arena during Stastny's draft and our pick was coming up. The ushers were trying to push us out the door, but we were all huddled around the TV in the hallway. Our pick came up, I had everyone around me agreeing with me about Stastny and we took Temmu Laakso. It's redemption time...

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09-09-2011, 01:20 PM
  #213
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But if we make that deal COL will be around 3 mil below the cap... i dont see any reason to break up the best pair in the league (world) unless YOU KNOW you cant sign Suter or Weber.


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09-09-2011, 01:23 PM
  #214
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Yeah, I don't see how Colorado makes this deal without having a third party involved who can pitch a salary dump. I'm not big on trading Suter for Statsny anyway

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09-09-2011, 01:27 PM
  #215
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I'd be more comfortable with Stas+ for Weber. Suter and Stastny are supposed to be friends, they've got the US connection going, so it might help keep Suter. Money works for Colorado. If the plus was something decent and we could sign Suter, I'd entertain the trade...

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09-09-2011, 01:28 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Broom of the System View Post
I'd be more comfortable with Stas+ for Weber. Suter and Stastny are supposed to be friends, they've got the US connection going, so it might help keep Suter. Money works for Colorado. If the plus was something decent and we could sign Suter, I'd entertain the trade...
Then give Suter the C

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09-09-2011, 01:34 PM
  #217
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I can definitely see a Weber-Blum pairing.

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09-09-2011, 01:35 PM
  #218
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Then give Legwand the C
FTFY

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09-09-2011, 01:37 PM
  #219
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FTFY
I thought that at first, and it is probably what I would do. But I dont see management doing that, he never has had a permanent A on his jersey. So I think Suter would end up being C if those events occurred. And im fine with that.

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09-09-2011, 01:43 PM
  #220
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I thought that at first, and it is probably what I would do. But I dont see management doing that, he never has had a permanent A on his jersey. So I think Suter would end up being C if those events occurred. And im fine with that.
knowing a bit of "inside" information in regard to Suter, i'm not really comfortable with him as captain. Then again, I'd be shocked if he was retained while weber was let go, so it's probably immaterial, anyway.

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09-09-2011, 04:20 PM
  #221
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What if it was Suter/Wilson/D prospect for Stastny/Erik Johnson? We'd have another RFA crack at EJ for a bit... I don't know why; but seeing the idea of moving Suter makes me think that EJ would have to be a piece of this deal w/ Poile involved...

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09-09-2011, 07:05 PM
  #222
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You and me seem to be the only ones left who still think highly of O'Reilly. I guess the biggest concern for him would be if his numbers from last season were from the result of playing with Sullivan. But I think he can establish himself as a solid #2 center.

That being said, if Turris was on the table, you have to take the gamble on him.
I make the third O'Reilly fan. He can skate, pass and score. He isn't a physical player. I think he can be a #2 or #3 center. He could score 15 goals and 25 assists a season in the NHL. I don't think he will be the next Martin St. Louis, but he can play.

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09-09-2011, 07:14 PM
  #223
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I think that Wilson has more upside to his game than O'Reilly. He is as fast a skater and 30 or 35 pounds heavier than Cal. He can hit people on the ice and looks like a 20-20 player now. I expect him to improve if he can stay out of the doghouse.

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09-10-2011, 12:19 AM
  #224
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What if it was Suter/Wilson/D prospect for Stastny/Erik Johnson? We'd have another RFA crack at EJ for a bit... I don't know why; but seeing the idea of moving Suter makes me think that EJ would have to be a piece of this deal w/ Poile involved...
I think the whole point of this deal for the Avs would be to pair Suter with EJ and hopefully have our own dominant top pairing like you guys have with Suter/Weber.

EJ isn't close to being as good as Weber right now but he has all the physical tools and the potential to be that good. Whether he reaches that potential is a completely different discussion but the potential is there.

Weber really took off in his 4th year in the league and the Avs might be hoping that EJ does the same, especially if he is paired with Suter.

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09-10-2011, 07:35 AM
  #225
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I think the whole point of this deal for the Avs would be to pair Suter with EJ and hopefully have our own dominant top pairing like you guys have with Suter/Weber.

EJ isn't close to being as good as Weber right now but he has all the physical tools and the potential to be that good. Whether he reaches that potential is a completely different discussion but the potential is there.

Weber really took off in his 4th year in the league and the Avs might be hoping that EJ does the same, especially if he is paired with Suter.
But also remember that this trade would be between conference competitors and likely to involve a premium to get an elite, developed, Norris-trophy caliber defense-man...

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