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HOH Top 60 Defensemen of All-Time (Preliminary and General Discussion)

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Old
08-27-2011, 07:14 PM
  #51
overpass
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Who played which position when?

There are a number of players who played positions other than defence, but can also be considered for this list.

Here's a start at listing which players played at various positions in which seasons. Some voters may wish to put more weight on the seasons in which the player played defence, while others may want the information to give context to their stats.

This 2008 thread had a fair bit of discussion on the topic.

pnep posted the following tables, if anyone wants to comment on them please do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnep View Post
PlayerSeasonPOS
Goodfellow Ebbie1929-30C
Goodfellow Ebbie1930-31C
Goodfellow Ebbie1931-32C
Goodfellow Ebbie1932-33C
Goodfellow Ebbie1933-34C
Goodfellow Ebbie1934-35C
Goodfellow Ebbie1935-36D
Goodfellow Ebbie1936-37D
Goodfellow Ebbie1937-38D
Goodfellow Ebbie1938-39D
Goodfellow Ebbie1939-40D
Goodfellow Ebbie1940-41D
Goodfellow Ebbie1941-42D
Goodfellow Ebbie1942-43D
   
Mohns Doug1953-54LW
Mohns Doug1954-55LW
Mohns Doug1955-56LW
Mohns Doug1956-57D
Mohns Doug1957-58D
Mohns Doug1958-59D
Mohns Doug1959-60LW
Mohns Doug1960-61D
Mohns Doug1961-62D
Mohns Doug1962-63D
Mohns Doug1963-64D
Mohns Doug1964-65LW
Mohns Doug1965-66LW
Mohns Doug1966-67LW
Mohns Doug1967-68LW
Mohns Doug1968-69LW
Mohns Doug1969-70D
Mohns Doug1970-71D
Mohns Doug1971-72D
Mohns Doug1972-73D
Mohns Doug1973-74D
Mohns Doug1974-75D
   
Noble Reg1917-18LW
Noble Reg1918-19D
Noble Reg1919-20LW
Noble Reg1920-21LW
Noble Reg1921-22LW
Noble Reg1922-23LW
Noble Reg1923-24LW
Noble Reg1924-25C
Noble Reg1924-25LW
Noble Reg1925-26D
Noble Reg1926-27D
Noble Reg1927-28D
Noble Reg1928-29D
Noble Reg1929-30D
Noble Reg1930-31D
Noble Reg1931-32D
Noble Reg1932-33D
   
Howe Mark1979-80LW
Howe Mark1980-81LW
Howe Mark1981-82D
Howe Mark1982-83D
Howe Mark1983-84D
Howe Mark1984-85D
Howe Mark1985-86D
Howe Mark1986-87D
Howe Mark1987-88D
Howe Mark1988-89D
Howe Mark1989-90D
Howe Mark1990-91D
Howe Mark1991-92D
Howe Mark1992-93D
Howe Mark1993-94D
Howe Mark1994-95D
   
Prodgers Goldie1919-20LW
Prodgers Goldie1920-21LW
Prodgers Goldie1921-22D
Prodgers Goldie1922-23D
Prodgers Goldie1923-24D
Prodgers Goldie1924-25RW
Prodgers Goldie1925-26RW
   
Kelly Red1947-48D
Kelly Red1948-49D
Kelly Red1949-50D
Kelly Red1950-51D
Kelly Red1951-52D
Kelly Red1952-53D
Kelly Red1953-54D
Kelly Red1954-55D
Kelly Red1955-56D
Kelly Red1956-57D
Kelly Red1957-58D
Kelly Red1958-59D
Kelly Red1959-60D
Kelly Red1959-60C
Kelly Red1960-61C
Kelly Red1961-62C
Kelly Red1962-63C
Kelly Red1963-64C
Kelly Red1964-65C
Kelly Red1965-66C
Kelly Red1966-67C
   
Clapper Dit1927-28RW
Clapper Dit1928-29RW
Clapper Dit1929-30RW
Clapper Dit1930-31RW
Clapper Dit1931-32RW
Clapper Dit1932-33RW
Clapper Dit1933-34RW
Clapper Dit1934-35RW
Clapper Dit1935-36RW
Clapper Dit1936-37RW
Clapper Dit1937-38D
Clapper Dit1938-39D
Clapper Dit1939-40D
Clapper Dit1940-41D
Clapper Dit1941-42D
Clapper Dit1942-43D
Clapper Dit1943-44D
Clapper Dit1944-45D
Clapper Dit1945-46D
Clapper Dit1946-47D
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnep View Post
PlayerSEASONFranch.north *hra **
Siebert Babe1925-26MTMLW L
Siebert Babe1926-27MTMLW L/D
Siebert Babe1927-28MTMD/LW L/D
Siebert Babe1928-29MTMLW L/D
Siebert Babe1929-30MTMLW L/D
Siebert Babe1930-31MTMLW L/D
Siebert Babe1931-32MTMLW L/D
Siebert Babe1932-33NYRLW L/D
Siebert Babe1933-34BOSLW L/D
Siebert Babe1933-34NYRLW L/D
Siebert Babe1934-35BOSD L/D
Siebert Babe1935-36BOSD L/D
Siebert Babe1936-37MTLD L/D
Siebert Babe1937-38MTLD D
Siebert Babe1938-39MTLD D

PlayerSEASONFranch.north *hra **
Mohns Doug1953-54BOSLW 
Mohns Doug1954-55BOSLW 
Mohns Doug1955-56BOSLW 
Mohns Doug1956-57BOSLW 
Mohns Doug1957-58BOSLW 
Mohns Doug1958-59BOSLW 
Mohns Doug1959-60BOSLW 
Mohns Doug1960-61BOSDD
Mohns Doug1961-62BOSD/LW D/R
Mohns Doug1962-63BOSDD/L
Mohns Doug1963-64BOSD/LW  
Mohns Doug1964-65CHILW 
Mohns Doug1965-66CHILW 
Mohns Doug1966-67CHILW 
Mohns Doug1967-68CHILW 
Mohns Doug1968-69CHILW 
Mohns Doug1969-70CHID 
Mohns Doug1970-71CHID 
Mohns Doug1970-71DALD 
Mohns Doug1971-72DALD 
Mohns Doug1972-73DALD 
Mohns Doug1973-74CGYD 
Mohns Doug1974-75WASD 

PlayerSEASONFranch.north *hra **
Noble Reg1917-18TORC/DL
Noble Reg1918-19TORD L/D
Noble Reg1919-20TORC/D L/D
Noble Reg1920-21TORC/D L/D
Noble Reg1921-22TORC/D L
Noble Reg1922-23TORC/D L
Noble Reg1923-24TORC/D L
Noble Reg1924-25MTMLW L/C
Noble Reg1924-25TORLW L/C
Noble Reg1925-26MTMD D
Noble Reg1926-27MTMD L/D
Noble Reg1927-28DETD L/D
Noble Reg1928-29DETD L/D
Noble Reg1929-30DETD L/D
Noble Reg1930-31DETD L/D
Noble Reg1931-32DETD L/D
Noble Reg1932-33DETDL/D
Noble Reg1932-33MTMDL/D

* Data from North American Pro Hockey site

** Data from old Hockey Research site (not sihrhockey.org)
pappyline on Doug Mohns from the same thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pappyline View Post
I have an old hockey blueline mag from 1957 with an article om Mohns switching to D at the beginning of the 56-57 season. I think it went this way:

53-56 LW
56-64 D (mostly)
64-69 LW
69-75 D

My understanding is that Chicago traded for him in 64 with the intention of using him as a Dman but he fit in so well with Mikita on the scooter line, they used him as a LW for several years.
Eddie Gerard played mostly LW and some C until he switched to defence in the 1918-19 season and played the next 5 seasons there.

I believe Mark Howe played more defence than wing in 1979-80 and 1980-81 (he was receiving votes at D in award voting), but he certainly played enough forward to boost his scoring totals relative to other defencemen. There are certainly other cases of in-season changes. Flash Hollett appears to have played a utility role for several years, switching to forward when necessary.

Some instances of star defencemen playing forward:
  • Phil Housley scored 7 of his 31 goals in 1984-85 as a forward (C, I think).
  • Tim Horton scored 8 of his 12 goals in 1964-65 at RW.
  • Red Kelly played part of the 1955-56 season at LW.
  • Ron Greschner played part of the 1977-78 season and the full 1985-86 season at C.
  • Glen Harmon scored 2 goals in a game while filling in at LW during the 1948-49 season, meaning his 8 goals were actually not the league-leading total for defencemen. This doesn't necessarily say a lot about Harmon, but it's an illustration of the difficulty in accurately compiling lists of the top scoring defencemen.
Some old-time players who played some forward and I'm not sure exactly when they switched to D:

Ernie "Moose" Johnson
Joe Hall
George Boucher
King Clancy
others?

Neil Colville played centre before the war and defence after the war. He played 6 seasons at centre and 3.5 at defence, and was voted to the second all-star team twice at centre and once at defence, so some may consider him more of a centre. Similarly, it's my understanding that Didier Pitre played more forward than defence, correct?

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Old
08-27-2011, 07:17 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Just a minor correction, but Toronto had to select a defenseman from the NHL to replace Cameron.
OK, makes sense. Probably not much as a difference, as Joe Simpson might have been the only non-Vancouver, non-NHL defenceman they would have considered.

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08-27-2011, 07:22 PM
  #53
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Just a note on Babe Siebert - he is generally assumed to have played LW for Nels Stewart until he was switched to D later in his career, but sturminator found multiple newspaper articles indicating that he regularly switched between LW and D even when playing with Stewart. Combine that with the fact that all his All-Star teams later in his career were at D, and I at least consider him primarily a D for the purposes of this.

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08-27-2011, 07:24 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
I feel pretty good about defensemen from 1910 or so onwards, but could use additional information on players from the ~25 years before that.
There are a few pre-1910 guys that should get serious consideration for this list:
Hod Stuart
Harvey Pulford
Mike Grant
Cyclone Taylor

I don't see anyone else from that era who should challenge for a spot.

Hod Stuart was pretty much a perfect hockey player. Over 6 feet tall when most guys were 5'7" or 5'8". One of the best and fastest skaters. Very good hockey sense and instincts. Elite offensively. Elite defensively. Elite physically.

Harvey Pulford was pretty much a battleship. He also was over 6 feet in the same era. He was not a good skater and he wasn't skilled. He was just so physically dominant.

Mike Grant didn't have the size, but his skating carried him. It is said that he was hockey's first superstar, known for his end-to-end rushes and offensive flair. He was also solid defensively.

Cyclone Taylor is well known.... just not as a defenseman. He had the same speed and skill in both positions.

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08-27-2011, 07:29 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post

Neil Colville played centre before the war and defence after the war. He played 6 seasons at centre and 3.5 at defence, and was voted to the second all-star team twice at centre and once at defence, so some may consider him more of a centre. Similarly, it's my understanding that Didier Pitre played more forward than defence, correct?
I have a hard time considering either of them a D, really.

I PMed Iain about a few guys because I was planning on eventually getting around to starting the discussion on who played where when, and this is what he said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe
I believe Northcott may have played a little defence, but not nearly enough to call him a defenceman in any season.

Pitre played a lot of defence early in his career. Altogether I have him playing about 5 full seasons as a defenceman. He played much more at RW, of course, but he played a significant amount on the blueline.

Griffis was primarily a defenceman. He played rover early in his career in the Manitoba league, but in the PCHA was a defenceman. He was retired before the rover was eliminated; Cyclone Taylor played rover in front of him.

Noble was a left wing/centre in Toronto, and moved to defence in his second season with the Maroons. So he had half a career as a forward and half as a defenceman, like Red Kelly in reverse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Cyclone Taylor is well known.... just not as a defenseman. He had the same speed and skill in both positions.
I'm interested to see what everyone else thinks of Cyclone Taylor. I really just have a hard time considering him a defenseman, when he is most famous as a rover.

Why don't you post your recent bio of Hod Stuart, or at least the parts talking about how he was considered the best player in the world (not just defenseman, player) by some circles?

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08-27-2011, 07:38 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
OK, makes sense. Probably not much as a difference, as Joe Simpson might have been the only non-Vancouver, non-NHL defenceman they would have considered.
Agreed. Moose Johnson and Lester Patrick were both past their primes and on the Vacouver team, and Frank Patrick had not played in about 4 years, so there was nobody out west to compare to Gerard.

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08-27-2011, 07:41 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Why don't you post your recent bio of Hod Stuart, or at least the parts talking about how he was considered the best player in the world (not just defenseman, player) by some circles?
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...1&postcount=61

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08-27-2011, 07:43 PM
  #58
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I forgot about him being kicked out of a league for being too good and too rough

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08-27-2011, 07:52 PM
  #59
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Joe Simpson

I researched Joe Simpson in the last All Time Draft, so I can present something about him. Here's the full bio I created. Much of it is reproduced here.

Simpson had a short prime as a star player, in part because of the First World War. He captained the Allan Cup winning team at the age of 22, and then left to fight in the war. Upon returning to Manitoba hockey, Simpson played another season in senior hockey (where he dominated), and finally turned professional with the Big-4 league at the age of 27. He followed that with four great seasons in the WCHL, and then he moved to the NHL, where he finished his career with several ordinary seasons, playing primarily as a substitute while in this 30s. As quoted later in the post, he appears to have gained weight and lost his speed after moving East.

I haven't seen any indication that Simpson ever played forward out West, during his high scoring years. I saw he filled in at forward for at least one game in the NHL, but he wasn't scoring much then anyway.

Here are some quotes I gathered on Simpson's play during his peak years.

Morning Leader, Jan 11, 1923:
Quote:
As we announced yesterday, our selection for the position of right defense on the Leader's all-star prairie league hockey team will not likely cause much controversy.

He is Harold "Joe" Simpson of the Edmonton Eskimos, of whom there is no better all-round defense player in the circuit.

Simpson has all the requirements of the ideal hockey player. Besides being good on the check and fast on his skates, he is a clean, conscientious player and is in the game for the full sixty minutes.

Simpson is probably best known for his "corkscrew" rushes which first earned him fame when he helped the 61st Battalion win the Allan Cup.

Simpson was out of hockey for two or three years during the war and signallized his return to the game by helping the Selkirk team, composed largely of juniors the season before, qualify for the Allan Cup final at Toronto in 1919. The Selkirk boys lost out to Hamilton but only after a game struggle.

The following year Simpson played brilliant hockey on the Selkirk defense and it was no fault of his that his team was beaten to the tape in the Manitoba league by the famous Falcons. When the Selkirk team toured the west at the tail-end of the season Joe was the first member to attract special attention, but he refused to turn pro until he became disgusted with the talk in Winnipeg that he was staying in the amateur ranks for monetary gain. Then he hiked to Edmonton where he has become the idol of the hockey public.

Simpson is easily the most dangerous defense man in the prairie league. He ranks high among the goal-getters and possesses the punch to come through with a tally when it is most needed.

We may be wrong, but our guess is that our choice of Joe Simpson will receive the endorsement of 90 percent of the railbirds on the prairie circuit.
Simpson's performance in the Stanley Cup Final of 1923 against Ottawa (held in Vancouver, a neutral site).

Game 1
Quote:
Edmonton started red hot favorites with the crowd. Every time little Joe Simpson came down the ice with his sensational bursts, the six thousand fans cheered him to the echo
Quote:
A corkscrew rush down the right wing by Simpson resulted in a snappy shot on Benedict.
Quote:
Simpson went down the right wing and held the puck until he was within a few feet of Benedict. His shot was saved by pretty work.
Quote:
Edmonton went into the lead when Morrison scored, subbing in for Keats, went in with Simpson and took a pass close in from Joe, which he shot past Benedict like lightning.
Quote:
Simpson made a rush which carried him in for a shot. The Ottawa defense picked up the puck but Simpson had caught them before they had crossed the blue line and returned for another shot.
Game 2

Quote:
"Little Joe" Simpson was the star of the Esks. He made thousands of friends by his brilliant dashes and his undeniably sporting spirit. He played the man and the puck in equal proportions but he played with conspicuous regard to the rules. Newsy Lalonde's expressed opinion that Joe Simpson is the greatest hockey player in the world will find general support in the coast country. He is a wonderful athlete and a gentleman on and off the ice.

Every time he rushed in Saturday's game he was given an ovation. His work was the outstanding incident. He was half the Edmonton attack, and his uncanny faculty for keeping his feet and his legs under difficulties is amazing. He was given a rough ride all evening by the Senators. All the penalties incurred, including Benedict's, were caused by attacks on "Little Joe." The first period alone, Clancy, Benedict, Nighbor, and Broadbent brought him down with trips or slashed wickedly at his form as it gyrated around them or flashed past. Benedict tried to separate him from his legs behind the goal and the fans razzed the tall iceberg as Ion banished him for two minutes. Judging by the support accorded him Simpson could displace Mayor Tisdall if he sought the job of bossing Vancouver.
Memories of Simpson's career from later

Billy Finlay, Vancouver Sun, Nov 10, 1932:
Quote:
Simpson was the "Babe" Ruth of the Western Canada circuit. His presence on the ice was always one of the big attractions wherever he performed. The flashy defense star was one of the most colorful players ever to perform at the Arena, and that is saying a lot when it is considered the many outstanding puck chasers who have flashed forth in the past twenty years.

"Newsy" Lalonde, who had many a mixup with the former Edmonton puckist when managing Saskatoon Sheiks, and who is now coaching the Montreal Canadiens, recently remarked that Simpson was one of the best defense men he had ever seen in his career.

We well remember when Simpson started his career. In fact, we were refereeing a senior amateur game in Winnipeg when Joe blossomed forth as a rover for a Winnipeg team. He had previously performed in junior hockey in the town of Selkirk, 25 miles east of the Manitoba capital.

Simpson wasn't any standout as a rover, but when he got his chance on defense it wasn't long before he had the fans sitting up and taking notice and it took some pretty smart playing in those days to outshine the opposition in Winnipeg hockey.

It was after he joined the army and played hockey for the 61st Battalion that Simpson really came to the front. His wonderful playing both on defense and attack had more than anything else to do with the team capturing the Allan Cup, emblematic of the amateur hockey championship of Canada. It was that year that he became famous as "Corkscrew" Joe, owing to his style of dodging through the opposition.

Simpson never showed his real class in the National Hockey League. He was a bit past his prime when he moved east after Frank Patrick disposed of the Western Canada league players. He gave earnest service to the New York Americans, but never the same scintillating flash that marked his career in western hockey.
George Mackintosh, Edmonton Journal, March 6, 1941:
Quote:
Says Baz O'Meara in the Montreal Star: "Someone was writing about Stanowski as the nearest approach to Joe Simpson that has been seen in years...the Joe Simpson who played in the east was only a shadow of "Bullet Joe" who thrilled western audiences...It was too bad so few sport writers in the east saw him at his best. They would have seen a player who could break faster than Hamby Shore, skate faster than Clancy, handle a stick like Gottselig, shoot like Sprague Cleghorn...But the east did something to him...He became a wobbly skater, put on about 20 pounds that he never seemed to be able to shed, and was always too amiable to be impressive...Stanowski is a greater rusher but is still a long way from being a Simpson as Joe was at his peak."

Mr O'Meara is right. "Joe the Bullet" was past his best by the time he went east, but when he was with Edmonton the guy was the biggest attraction in hockey. There's been no player quite like him since, and it's doubtful if another like him ever will come along. From the strict defensive angle there have been plenty of better performers than Simpson, but none his equal at serving up rushing thrills.
One comparison of Simpson to his fellow star D in the West:
Calgary Herald, March 21, 1923
Quote:
Joe Simpson, reputed to be one of the greatest hockey stars in the game today, is better than either Duncan or Cook, but he hasn't a mate that completes a pair equal in strength to the Vancouver couple.
Simpson was also nearly traded to Ottawa for Frank Nighbor after the 1924 season. Nighbor had just won the Hart Trophy, which may give you an idea of how Simpson was regarded at the time. The linked bio at the top of the post has a more complete account.

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08-27-2011, 10:29 PM
  #60
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Help on non-NHL euro defenseman up for consideration would be a plus.

All I have right now are russians:

Fetisov
Vasiliev
Sologubov
Kasatonov

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08-27-2011, 10:55 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RabbinsDuck View Post
Help on non-NHL euro defenseman up for consideration would be a plus.

All I have right now are russians:

Fetisov
Vasiliev
Sologubov
Kasatonov
Fetisov, Kasatonov, and Vasiliev should be, but not Sologubov. His competition was just too weak.

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08-27-2011, 11:19 PM
  #62
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Fetisov, Kasatonov, and Vasiliev should be, but not Sologubov. His competition was just too weak.
I put his name down solely based on Tikhonov's all-time team. Know little outside of that, but that is a heavy endorsement.

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08-27-2011, 11:22 PM
  #63
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I put his name down solely based on Tikhonov's all-time team. Know little outside of that, but that is a heavy endorsement.
All-Time Russian team?

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08-27-2011, 11:26 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
All-Time Russian team?
Of course:

Bobrov Firsov Kharlamov
Fetisov Sologubov
Tretiak

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08-27-2011, 11:40 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RabbinsDuck View Post
Of course:

Bobrov Firsov Kharlamov
Fetisov Sologubov
Tretiak
Bobrov and Sologubov might be great among the Russians of their time, but compared to NHLers, they were not very good.

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08-28-2011, 02:57 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RabbinsDuck View Post
Help on non-NHL euro defenseman up for consideration would be a plus.

All I have right now are russians:

Fetisov
Vasiliev
Sologubov
Kasatonov
Yes, I'd like that aswell. A bio on Ragulin would be interesting for example. I know one Swedish player described trying to hit Ragulin as trying to hit a house.

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08-28-2011, 03:02 AM
  #67
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World Championship All Star Teams

Here's a list of the number of times each defenceman has been selected to the World Championship All Star Team. I thought it might help shed some light on Europeans outside of the NHL.

The All Star Team has been selected in each tournament since 1961.

PlayerAll Star Selections
Vyacheslav Fetisov9
Alexander Ragulin5
Alexei Kasatonov5
Petteri Nummelin5
Valeri Vasiliev5
Jan Suchy4
Frantisek Pospisil3
Harry Smith3
Lennart Svedberg3
Timo Jutila3
Jere Karalahti2
Jiri Bubla2
Marek Zidlicky2
Michal Sykora2
Niklas Kronwall2
Alexander Gusev1
Alexei Zhitnik1
Anders Eldebrink1
Andrei Markov1
Börje Salming1
Christian Ehrhoff1
Darryl Sly1
Dave Manson1
David Petrasek1
Dick Tärnström1
Frantisek Kucera1
Frantisek Musil1
Frantisek Tikal1
Ilpo Koskela1
Ilya Byakin1
Jack Douglas1
Jay Bouwmeester1
Kenny Jönsson1
Kim Johnsson1
Larry Robinson1
Lars-Erik Sjöberg1
Lubomir Visnovsky1
Magnus Svensson1
Mats Waltin1
Mike Green1
Mikhail Tatarinov1
Oldrich Machac1
Pavel Kubina1
Pekka Marjamäki1
Richard Lintner1
Rob Blake1
Rod Seiling1
Shea Weber1
Teppo Numminen1
Thomas Rhodin1
Tomáš Kaberle1
Tommy Sjödin1
Udo Kiessling1
Zdeno Chára1


Last edited by steve141: 08-28-2011 at 03:17 AM.
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08-28-2011, 03:16 AM
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Best WHA defencemen

Here are the winners of the WHA trophy for best defenceman.

Dennis Murphy Trophy Winners

1979 – Rick Ley, New England Whalers
1978 – Lars Sjoberg, Winnipeg Jets
1977 – Ron Plumb, Cincinnati Stingers
1976 – Paul Shmyr, Cleveland Crusaders
1975 – J.C. Tremblay, Quebec Nordiques
1974 – Pat Stapleton, Chicago Cougars
1973 – J.C. Tremblay, Quebec Nordiques

I don't know how valuable recieving an award like this should be viewed. Any thoughts?

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08-28-2011, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by steve141 View Post
Yes, I'd like that aswell. A bio on Ragulin would be interesting for example. I know one Swedish player described trying to hit Ragulin as trying to hit a house.
I have Ragulin in my top-75, and might be in my top-60. He's definately better than Sologubov.

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08-28-2011, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by steve141 View Post
Here are the winners of the WHA trophy for best defenceman.

Dennis Murphy Trophy Winners

1979 – Rick Ley, New England Whalers
1978 – Lars Sjoberg, Winnipeg Jets
1977 – Ron Plumb, Cincinnati Stingers
1976 – Paul Shmyr, Cleveland Crusaders
1975 – J.C. Tremblay, Quebec Nordiques
1974 – Pat Stapleton, Chicago Cougars
1973 – J.C. Tremblay, Quebec Nordiques

I don't know how valuable recieving an award like this should be viewed. Any thoughts?
Only Tremblay and Stalpeton should get much consideration for the top-60.

The WHA was pretty weak, so it's tough to value accomplishments there. Tremblay was a major player in the WHA, so that counts for something. Stapleton was good, though nothing like Tremblay.

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08-28-2011, 05:50 AM
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Didn't put too much thought into this, just made the list as I looked at names.... but here is my top 60 right now. Any glaring misses?

(Edited out)


Last edited by seventieslord: 08-28-2011 at 01:43 PM.
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08-28-2011, 07:13 AM
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I'm confused. Can someone please clarify if Cyclone Taylor is eligible or not?

There's was this rule in the OP:

"A player's accomplishments at his secondary position may be taken into account; it is up to the list maker to determine how to evaluate such players"

Since we're not going to being doing an all-time Rover list, wouldn't his accomplishments at that position be factored into determining his ranking for whatever position we put him in for the purposes of these lists? Should he be on the defence list, or the centres list?

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08-28-2011, 07:17 AM
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Didn't put too much thought into this, just made the list as I looked at names.... but here is my top 60 right now. Any glaring misses?
Jack Stewart and Jan Suchy are the two on my tentative top 40 list that I didn't see on yours.

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08-28-2011, 07:39 AM
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Just something to consider about Sologubov: I totally understand where the argument of weak competition is coming from. At that time Soviet hockey was still behind Canada by a wide margin.

But say you were going to rate just the greatest Soviet defencemen of all-time, solely looking at that country and nothing else. He'd definitely be there, maybe even in the top 5. He'd be considered on the pioneers of the early Soviet game.

Harvey Pulford and Mike Grant are probably going to be on many lists here. But is there really much difference in the competition level of their day compared with players of today, and Sologubov's compared with Soviets of 30 years later?

Canadian hockey has evolved a lot over the years, and the talent pool has consistently grown. The same thing happened with Soviet hockey, only a few decades later. Is it fair to punish Sologubov, and not Pulford, because hockey was being played on the other side of the world earlier?

I understand that Canadian amateurs were still superior to Russia's best at that time. But should we be making perhaps a special case for players in his position? And could it be that maybe he had developed further than his countrymen. Would he make a NHL roster at the time if he had the chance? I honestly don't know.

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08-28-2011, 07:40 AM
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Harry Smith

Harry Smith from the Trail Smoke Eaters - 3 time AS at the World's, should put European defencemen from the sixties in perspective:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=12465

http://www.historicsmokeeaters.ca/sm...irdperiod.html

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